Decks are not 40 cards (4x of each card)

naphomci

So, there have been some people asking about this, but this is the set of cards I just got in training grounds with Saheeli:
Opening 3:
Shivan Reef
Fleetwheel Cruiser
Shivan Reef
Next cards, in order:
Shivan Reef
Shivan Reef (if the old description of decks was true, this would be the last Shivan Reef I could see for the next 35 cards)
Maulfist Doorbuster
Maulfist Doorbuster
Shivan Reef, number 5.

So, can @Brigby tell us what the new deck make up is?
 

Laeuftbeidir

The decks behave a bit weird since the last update imo.
Today, I got three times 4 copies of the same card in the first half dozen turns. Not impossible with a 40 card deck, but the odds are.. Low. (no card draw mechanics (apart from shefet) involved)

/E: actually, 5 times, including screenshots of the last 4 times -.-

Thésée

When some asked a few weeks ago, the official answer was that nothing had changed 

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/64326/40-card-deck/p2

But we have all noticed the strange behaviour of the draw mechanism and lots of us have faced situations that clearly indicate that the 40 card deck does not exist anymore or does not work as it did anymore 

Brigby said:

Hi Everyone. I was able to get answers for the second round of questions I sent over to the developers. You can find them below:

What happens when you get to the end of your 40 card deck?
40 new cards are generated in your library, as if you just started the game.

How does fetching the next X cards from your deck work if you go past the end of the deck?
It generates a new 40 card library, then fetches from it. So yes, anything that draws a specific card can draw infinite copies of said card.

What about destroying cards out of your deck (i.e. Gather the Pack?)
Again, it generates a new 40 card library, then destroys the specified cards.

shteev

Does it take three rounds of questions before they fix EVERY bug? Must be exhausting.

Volrak

naphomci said:

So, there have been some people asking about this, but this is the set of cards I just got in training grounds with Saheeli:
Opening 3:
Shivan Reef
Fleetwheel Cruiser
Shivan Reef
Next cards, in order:
Shivan Reef
Shivan Reef (if the old description of decks was true, this would be the last Shivan Reef I could see for the next 35 cards)
Maulfist Doorbuster
Maulfist Doorbuster
Shivan Reef, number 5.

So, can @Brigby tell us what the new deck make up is?
 

It would have been great to see a battle log of this.  E.g. there are ways to deplete the deck without cards going into your hand; with a battle log, this kind of thing could be ruled out.

Thuran

Had a game earlier today where i ended up with 5 Rishkar's expertise before encountering a single cast out. Definetly not just 4 copies

naphomci

Volrak said:

naphomci said:

So, there have been some people asking about this, but this is the set of cards I just got in training grounds with Saheeli:
Opening 3:
Shivan Reef
Fleetwheel Cruiser
Shivan Reef
Next cards, in order:
Shivan Reef
Shivan Reef (if the old description of decks was true, this would be the last Shivan Reef I could see for the next 35 cards)
Maulfist Doorbuster
Maulfist Doorbuster
Shivan Reef, number 5.

So, can @Brigby tell us what the new deck make up is?
 

It would have been great to see a battle log of this.  E.g. there are ways to deplete the deck without cards going into your hand; with a battle log, this kind of thing could be ruled out.

I forgot about the log. But I listed every card I drew. None manipulate the library. Nor did I activate any of Saheeli's abilities

shteev

@Volrak ive got screenshots of the battlelog for the situation I posted in the other thread... i can put them somewhere if itll make any difference.

Pcell777

Honestly, as a relatively new player and not knowing about the 40 cards deck, I always have a feeling that the draw is completely random.

Volrak

shteev said:

@Volrak ive got screenshots of the battlelog for the situation I posted in the other thread... i can put them somewhere if itll make any difference.

If they're handy I'd be curious to see them.  One possibility of several is that it's a bug in the behaviour of a card or ability which d3 might not yet be able to reproduce; pooling our knowledge about what the possible triggers might be could help to isolate it.

Or, the deck size might just be changed without any communication, in which case the logs won't do a lot.

Sirchombli

I drew 5 copies of censor and 5 copies of forsake the unworldly before I got my second cast out. I'm beginning to think cycling has something to do with it. Only happens when I draw a million cards. I've never drawn more than 6 copies of a card without seeing the other cards in proportion. I'm logging all of my games to get some usable data. Something's not right. 

shteev

Ok here's my Battle Log:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4iDvhSEWxaranFsS0JISEJJSk0

Hieroglyphic Illumination is the first card I drew 5 of, I believe. [edit] oops, no, this must have been another game; here, I drew a 5th copy of Dissenter's Deliverance.

shteev

Sirchombli said:

I drew 5 copies of censor and 5 copies of forsake the unworldly before I got my second cast out. I'm beginning to think cycling has something to do with it. Only happens when I draw a million cards. I've never drawn more than 6 copies of a card without seeing the other cards in proportion. I'm logging all of my games to get some usable data. Something's not right. 

I very much don't think it's cycling; I remember one time drawing 5 Pigs in my first 8 cards, playing Saheeli before AKH was released.

Now that you've mentioned cycling, tho, I bet Brigby will turn up and say 'Oh, yeah, it's cycling', because they do that here.

Volrak said:

One possibility of several is that it's a bug in the behaviour of a card or ability which d3 might not yet be able to reproduce

Yes. That is one possibility. I can think of a few more.

UweTellkampf

I too seem to be getting 40+Decks, especially with Saheeli (5 Boomships in round 4)

naphomci

If you look at my original post, it is not cycling. None of the cards I listed cycle.

Volrak

shteev said:

Ok here's my Battle Log:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4iDvhSEWxaranFsS0JISEJJSk0

Hieroglyphic Illumination is the first card I drew 5 of, I believe. [edit] oops, no, this must have been another game; here, I drew a 5th copy of Dissenter's Deliverance.

If I counted right, your first 40 cards were:

Censor	x3
Displacement Wave	x3
Dissenter's Deliverance	x5
Floodwaters	x5
Hieroglyphic Illumination	x4
Kessig Prowler	x3
New Perspectives	x4
Shefet Monitor	x3
Sphinx's Tutelage	x5
Vizier of Tumbling Sands	x5

So it looks like more than just one card out of place.  If someone feels bored, a thing to do would be to log 60 draws and see whether there are exactly x6 of each card.

Laeuftbeidir

@Volrak
I felt bored a bit and tried it with a looping deck in RatC (Tezzeret..) 
I am still convinced something is wrong with the decks ..well, but this time the data wants me to take off the tinfoil hat.
I drew 44 cards, 4 of each in the first 40 + 4 single ones after it. No Cycling involved (apart from Shefet Monitor), card draw only through Alha..whatever..archive + Retreat to Coralheim + I did not use Kioras second ability

Brigby

@naphomci
Since there seems to be differing deck behaviors with various players' attempts, I've relayed this question to the developers. I'll inform the community of their response when I hear back from them.

Captsquee

This is a thought but needs improved upon. Paper allows 60 card decks for competition. Since we don't include the usual 20 mana. 6 pulls of the same card and you can't draw it anymore? Its a thought. I have a sweet cycling deck but endless draws are crazy. They nerfed baral and then gave us cycling. The dumbed down a card to give us decks that do worse things and then add a planeswalker to help it further lol. New perspectives is a nuclear bomb. Drake haven sphinx tutelage shadowsstorm vizier and curator of mysteries. I'm not adding in the other color combos. The sad part is you can do insane things with a handful of cheap cards. Draw decks have to be limited. 

Brigby

Hi Everyone. I just wanted to stop by to give a quick update.

I relayed this information to the developers, and they said it's possible the original deck issue with Saheeli Rai may not be fixed. They will investigate further.

shteev

Brigby said:

Hi Everyone. I just wanted to stop by to give a quick update.

I relayed this information to the developers, and they said it's possible the original deck issue with Saheeli Rai may not be fixed. They will investigate further.

@Brigby Just to be clear, the battle log posted above was playing Kiora, not Saheeli Rai (hence the green and blue cards).