Anyone Else Joining the Nerf Thanos Movement?

135

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  • Dauthi
    Dauthi Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2017
    Most mobile/casual games with MPQs structure tend to have autoplay instead of forcing players into trivial/monotonous play. MPQ gave a survey long ago asking if we would use that function. Never heard from it since.

    I have played a lot of casual games and MPQ is really bad with adapting to the new features that offer better quality of life to it's players. I could open a thread naming many features like autoplay from other popular games that MPQ ignores.

    Take care playing other games that are good, you will be left scratching your head wondering why MPQ doesn't do X or Y because it would just make sense.

    I remember when championing was released and thought "oh they are only 5 years late to catch this train".
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think you're overestimating how many people are using 5hanos for PvE.  There's a large subset of people who abhor self-damage  (see:  Carnage re-work).   They won't even use 3hanos.

    I don't think the 10% threshold was made up (though was likely a secondary or tertiary reason for nerfing OML), and I don't think Thanos is gonna hit that mark because of the self-damage. 

    Thus, I don't see it happening.  If it does, it does, but then we'll just be arguing that ____ is now overpowered, where blank is infinitely variable.

  • Pants1000
    Pants1000 Posts: 484 Mover and Shaker
    OML was also used by a lot of people who only had a couple covers.  People were using level 300-350 OML over level 370+ boosted/champed 4's. 

    That isn't true with Thanos.  10% use by all players across all modes is very different from high use in PVP by people with champed 5's.  

    I dont know if they will or if they should nerf Thanos, but if they do the reasoning will be different than OML.
  • emaname
    emaname Posts: 1 Just Dropped In
    Thanos, and Thanos Panther are no big deal on defence (unless u are on the receiving end of a stupid cascade, in which case even stupid surfer could be nasty). However, I would be delighted if D3 would reduce Thanos' health pool -- we are all spending too much time on this game, and even cutting the time per match by 10-15 seconds would be significant since almost every team out there has a Thanos in it.

    Another way to "rebalance" Thanos, would be modify the Court Death ability such that Thanos must kill off the enemy character with the largest health pool in order for Court Death to activate.

    In any case, we all know, as D3 history has proven time and again, that it is a matter of when, rather than if, that highly popular characters like Thanos get nerfed. :)
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,734 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't fight in 5* land, but my 3* Thanos is champed. I only use him for quick progress in lightning rounds and easy PvE nodes. Otherwise, I never use him. So, I don't see the point in nerfing him. C4rol and Peggy are way more beast. 
  • nyck1118
    nyck1118 Posts: 106 Tile Toppler
    ..........
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    Once they implement SCL based scaling there's going to be two classes of PvE players.

    Those who own 5* Thanos and complete clears in <30 minutes
    Those who don't and can't possibly compete for speed.
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    bbigler said:
    The problem isn't Thanos.  The problem is the requirement to play as fast as possible in order to get good rewards.  If the length of your matches wasn't a concern, then you could take your time with any fun team that you like, thus increasing variety and avoiding burnout.  So, my suggestion is to remove placement rewards in PVE and somehow make PVP less time sensitive and not requiring periods of fast climbing before losing points.

    If we can relieve the need to play super fast matches, then MPQ will be a much better game to play. 
    Technically true (and I'd WELCOME that change), but unfortunately there's no indication whatsoever that the devs are willing to do this.

    In fact, back when they tried the current PvE model with 6 clears, one of the test runs removed the recharging of points (which eliminated the time factor from placement)
    Apparently, they weren't happy with the result.
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    sh81 said:
    Borstock said:
    I don't fight in 5* land, but my 3* Thanos is champed. I only use him for quick progress in lightning rounds and easy PvE nodes. Otherwise, I never use him. So, I don't see the point in nerfing him. C4rol and Peggy are way more beast. 
    This is me too.

    3* Thanos + 2 * 5's = 500 match damage, clear easy nodes nice and easy.

    As soon as I get to node 4 where the difficulty jumps up, I ditch Thanos and move onto whoever is most appropriate (Currently 4Cage, 4Carol and Gwenpool).

    And Thanos doesnt even come into my thinking with the Essentials, he would guarantee having to use health packs given I HAVE to have the essential character.

    My 5* Thanos isnt worth using yet, only ever played him when I mistook him for the 3*  :D
    Agreed. Thanos gets you so far in the nodes for quick clears, but for the bigger badder nodes there are more efficient teams .
  • MoosePrime
    MoosePrime Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
    Starfury said:
    bbigler said:
    The problem isn't Thanos.  The problem is the requirement to play as fast as possible in order to get good rewards.

    If we can relieve the need to play super fast matches, then MPQ will be a much better game to play. 
    Technically true (and I'd WELCOME that change), but unfortunately there's no indication whatsoever that the devs are willing to do this.

    In fact, back when they tried the current PvE model with 6 clears, one of the test runs removed the recharging of points (which eliminated the time factor from placement)
    Since they didn't tell us before that test what would happen with ties, the time factor was still there. The leaderboards for that event still had the first person to complete their clears at the top.
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    DyingLegend said:
    sh81 said:
    Borstock said:
    I don't fight in 5* land, but my 3* Thanos is champed. I only use him for quick progress in lightning rounds and easy PvE nodes. Otherwise, I never use him. So, I don't see the point in nerfing him. C4rol and Peggy are way more beast. 
    This is me too.

    3* Thanos + 2 * 5's = 500 match damage, clear easy nodes nice and easy.

    As soon as I get to node 4 where the difficulty jumps up, I ditch Thanos and move onto whoever is most appropriate (Currently 4Cage, 4Carol and Gwenpool).

    And Thanos doesnt even come into my thinking with the Essentials, he would guarantee having to use health packs given I HAVE to have the essential character.

    My 5* Thanos isnt worth using yet, only ever played him when I mistook him for the 3*  :D
    Agreed. Thanos gets you so far in the nodes for quick clears, but for the bigger badder nodes there are more efficient teams .
    That's true for 3* Thanos. A champed 5* Thanos makes mincemeat out of anything below lvl 300.
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    MoosePrime said:
    Starfury said:
    bbigler said:
    The problem isn't Thanos.  The problem is the requirement to play as fast as possible in order to get good rewards.

    If we can relieve the need to play super fast matches, then MPQ will be a much better game to play. 
    Technically true (and I'd WELCOME that change), but unfortunately there's no indication whatsoever that the devs are willing to do this.

    In fact, back when they tried the current PvE model with 6 clears, one of the test runs removed the recharging of points (which eliminated the time factor from placement)
    Since they didn't tell us before that test what would happen with ties, the time factor was still there. The leaderboards for that event still had the first person to complete their clears at the top.
    Yeah, but what I'm pointing at is that their solution to the problem:
    They didn't remove the time factor entirely, instead they went back to a system where your time to clear would manifest itself in your score
  • byc
    byc Posts: 297 Mover and Shaker
    Orion said:
    Thanos is the best character in the game right now.  I don't really think that's in dispute since right now only Black Bolt is even in the same league as him.  But does he need to be nerfed?  No, not really.

    I play in the 5* world and I'd say that at least 60% of the PvP teams that I see have Thanos in them.  But the difference between Thanos and OML is that OML is great as soon as you pull that first yellow.  You can use him at level 255, at 330, at 390, or champed.  Thanos really isn't all that great until he's champed.  So you don't see him until you get to 5* land.

    I use Thanos with OML and Surfer to try to limit the amount of healthpacks I need.  But when I switch over to using him with Panther, then I pretty much have to use 1-2 healthpacks a fight.  Can't really sustain a PvE grind doing that.  PvP is the same.  You can do quick hops with Thanos, but you aren't going 0-1200 in one go with Thanos like you could with OML unless you end up buying healthpacks.

    So yeah, he's strong for the people who have him champed.  But that's a limited number and he doesn't dominate all levels of the game like OML did.  So I think he'll end up not being nerfed.
    Yeah I wasn't really using him until I got several covers.  He's more of a typical character in that all 3 colors are needed.  I really like Infinite Power and it dominates against the poor AI.  Court Death is obviously great.  I think the only reason he has so much HP is because of Come And Get Me.  It's a decent power, but not a great one without 4* Captain Marvel.  And even with her, it's 17 AP.

    My Thanos is not champed, but I do have 12 covers and only at 375.  I like him a lot and wouldn't want a nerf.  He's really good offensively and better if the player understand the game and can read and predict the board and powers to lock it down with Infinite Power.  But the AI plays him not so well usually, although I've lost when he's locked down the board on me.
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,299 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2017
    Yeah I have already seen the problem in the test where I joined SCL 7 (I usually play SCL 8) but the new fixed test made SCL 7 better for me than 8.  The top 3 players all had 5* Thanos IN SCL 7! They completed full clears within minutes based on how fast their scores accelerated.  There is simply no way to compete against that and if they do implement SCL  based scaling, they need to correct this because a maxed 5* Thanos player shouldn't be able to compete in anything but the highest SCL under the new proposed system.  I think two of them had fully covered and leveled Thanos and one had one pretty well covered.
  • animaniactoo
    animaniactoo Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
    I am not in favor of EVER nerfing a character. I was eagerly looking forward to pulling OML and finally being able to add him to my roster. Now? Not so much. There's only one cover I really want and I'm not going to jinx myself by putting it out there...


    But I think that a lot of the fun of the game is to be able to get that one guy (or 2) who really is just that badass and head and shoulders above everybody else in a fight when you have them on your team.

    Yeah, I'm finally managing to put down Juggernaut who usually ends up with 2x as much health as anyone on my team in the PVE, and yeah, it's fun figuring out what character combos I can use who are effective, etc.

    But getting a Big Guy? That's a big thing. And nerfing takes away all the fun of that.

    If you want to limit the advantage they give, I'd rather look at the number of times per day or week they can be used - similar to when you send teamups, the character isn't available to send again for X amount of time.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    The problem is not thanos, just like the problem wasn't OML.  The problem is availability.  It's incredibly hard to build a single 5*, most players will never even get 1 to 450.  

    Playing the same teams over and over just reminds everyone that 50+ match3 game matches a day is boring.  So of course it sucks being stuck using your best 2 characters all the time.  That is true in the 3* tier and the 5* tier.  But 5* acquisition is totally different from any other tier.  The game is designed so that getting the first few 3*s or 4*s makes it way easier to get more.  But 5* is all rng, and a 4* roster can get just as much cp as a 5* roster.

    Ok, so if you had all the 5*s at 550... who would you use?
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,299 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yeah, I can't speak to 5* Thanos as I only have 3* Thanos and I really don't favor a nerf but what I do favor is there should be a limiting of what characters people can use if they change scaling to SCL.  The details are up for debate on how to do that but I don't think it is really fair when 5* players with maxed out Thanos can simply take all of the best placement rewards in a lower than max SCL, which is what I witnessed with the test.  I don't think lowering the rewards for SCL 7 is the key and while increasing SCL 8 rewards may be appropriate ( or opening other SCLs), the devs have seemed hesitant to do so.  In light of this, the only other reasonable way to stop this is to say you can't use 5* characters in SCL's 7 or lower, and you can't use 4* in SCL's 6 (or 5?) or lower etc.  
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