Scaling Tied To S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Levels (5/25/17)

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  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    WEBGAS said:
    ....my only hope is that this could be a further step towards a PVE system with progression rewards only. This is the only fair solution
    C'mon, why you "progression only" cultists keep thinking it's going to solve pve for you??

    Problem it's hard to get the cool 4* rewards in placement, right? D3 could easily fix that by keeping placement & giving 4* to t20, t50, t100 or more. But they haven't since the game has been created.

    But ya think if they hit the magic switch remove placement & do progression only 95% would get equivalent rewards they now give to t10 in placement?
  • Nehalem
    Nehalem Posts: 3 Just Dropped In
    edited May 2017
    As someone who does compete every event in the highest form, inside of Clearance 8, since it's inception. I wanted to state that I do use a 4 star roster, with a few soft capped 5 stars. This gives me a massive amount of choice in the characters I play. Which makes the game much more enjoyable then smashing the same old foes with the same very small number of 5 star characters that I currently obtain. 

    I wanted to state that in the top 5 of my bracket which I am always a part of, 4 star and 5 star rosters before this test were competitive. Sometimes they beat me. Sometimes I beat them. 

    But now with the current event, I am beaten on the initial grind by around 5-10 minutes. Making it so I have zero chance in getting first in this bracket. 

    I have zero interest in going down to Clearance level 7, since from what I have heard that bracket's top 5 are just 5 star rosters destroying the initial grinds in less than 30 minutes. 

    This new system to me doesn't work. My levels went up by a few, but the players with champion level 5 stars had a massive difference in the levels going down. 

    I hope the system goes back to what it was, or to something that gives me any chance in being competitive at all again.

    Otherwise you might have lost a paying customer.

    - Nehalem (aXe Reavers)
  • Lukoil
    Lukoil Posts: 266 Mover and Shaker
    So what was the cap for hard enemies in first sub? bullseye + 2 strike guys? SCL8
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lukoil said:
    So what was the cap for hard enemies in first sub? bullseye + 2 strike guys? SCL8

    323.
  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    @Nehalem what do you mean by soft capped 5*? anybody ready to champion? or are you hoarding CP?

    This change is exactly about softcapping that is not a desired situation. If you have 5* softcapped but ready to champion then this is your way in the new environment (provided the test is successful and it stays like this - we will know in couple of weeks I guess).

    5* players are finally not punished for developing roster (even if they've spent lots of money on it, who cares). This is how it should have been from the start.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Magic said:
    @Nehalem what do you mean by soft capped 5*? anybody ready to champion? or are you hoarding CP?

    This change is exactly about softcapping that is not a desired situation. If you have 5* softcapped but ready to champion then this is your way in the new environment (provided the test is successful and it stays like this - we will know in couple of weeks I guess).

    5* players are finally not punished for developing roster (even if they've spent lots of money on it, who cares). This is how it should have been from the start.

    Nehalem has a 13 cover Thanos, Strange and Panther @375 by choice.
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    Magic said:

    5* players are finally not punished for developing roster (even if they've spent lots of money on it, who cares). This is how it should have been from the start.
    True, but at the same time you need to protect placement in the different SCL from people with overpowered rosters.

    As is always said in PvP discussions: "This is PvP, you can't expect to rise above your roster strenght. Go play PvE if you want to compete."
  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bowgentle said:

    Nehalem has a 13 cover Thanos, Strange and Panther @375 by choice.
    Well - as i have expected. Softcap. If you want to be competitive you should have the best possible roster to use. Otherwise enjoy the game and let others compete for the placement. I hate loosing placement to softcapped rosters of 3* in PvE (old system) and I bet 5* players hate to see 3 and 4* guys beating them thanks to favorable scaling. 

    I think the only limitation that is needed for the system is how low you can drop based on your clearance level (say people over 90 shouldn't play in CL5 or even 6). Or disallow 5* below 6 and disallow 4* below 5. That way you limit the drops.
  • Nehalem
    Nehalem Posts: 3 Just Dropped In
    I choose to keep my roster at that level for a lack of variety in the 5 star area. Playing the same few 5 star characters would be really boring and I probably wouldn't be playing still. But having more than fourty 4 stars that are all usable makes every week more fun and a different adventure.

    I think you missed the part of my post when I said that 5 star rosters were competitive before. There have been plenty of times 5 star rosters have beat me and I have beat them. Now it's not even remotely close.
  • Lukoil
    Lukoil Posts: 266 Mover and Shaker
    Bowgentle said:
    Lukoil said:
    So what was the cap for hard enemies in first sub? bullseye + 2 strike guys? SCL8

    323.
    =\ So I should not move to SCL7 i guess? cause for me they were like that already. My question is - what node have 400 level max? Is there 2 person nodes in ISO-8 event? Magneto + Hood?
  • NewMcG
    NewMcG Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
    Nehalem said:
    I choose to keep my roster at that level for a lack of variety in the 5 star area. Playing the same few 5 star characters would be really boring and I probably wouldn't be playing still. But having more than fourty 4 stars that are all usable makes every week more fun and a different adventure.

    I think you missed the part of my post when I said that 5 star rosters were competitive before. There have been plenty of times 5 star rosters have beat me and I have beat them. Now it's not even remotely close.
    Well, now it's the same, except you can finally run those 5* up and not be penalized for it! Use them to compete in PVE if you want to stay competitive. Despite only having one 5* that I can even take above 400 once this type of scaling becomes the norm, I like the fact that now the strength of the opponents is fixed, and making your roster better will be what makes your results improve over time, not hitting a sweet spot somewhere inside some arbitrary algorithm that gives the greatest benefit.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    This seemed like it got un-stickied prematurely.  The test isn't even over.  We also still don't have any word (unless I missed it) why SCL8 was so much lower than they told us it would be.
  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    Nehalem said:
    I choose to keep my roster at that level for a lack of variety in the 5 star area. Playing the same few 5 star characters would be really boring and I probably wouldn't be playing still. But having more than fourty 4 stars that are all usable makes every week more fun and a different adventure.

    I think you missed the part of my post when I said that 5 star rosters were competitive before. There have been plenty of times 5 star rosters have beat me and I have beat them. Now it's not even remotely close.
    But this is exactly the point. Why should you be on the same playing level as championed 5* if you don't have any (in your case it's by choice)? It means the player who invested iso and put himself in this "limited roster" purgatory should be punished even more. I don't agree with this sentiment. 

    You have a choice. Level you 5* as high as you can (and you can champion 3 great ones) and enjoy the run for top placement rewards (as anybody with championed 5* should) or stay where you are and enjoy the varied play due to useful 4* champions (my choice of action as well as I like to use the wider roster) but don't sweat over placement. 

    This update makes the system fair. You play a lot, you invest resources, you are rewarded for that with easier gameplay. Finally!
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll said:
    This seemed like it got un-stickied prematurely.  The test isn't even over.  We also still don't have any word (unless I missed it) why SCL8 was so much lower than they told us it would be.
    I think this is simply a mistake, in setting the level increment per clear to 15 instead of 25 in CL8.

    I'm not sure what that means for the test result, since the only people who would be playing in CL8 are those who were prepared for level 400 enemies, and they're seeing substantially easier ones.
  • Rick_OShay
    Rick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2017
    acescracked said:
    Thank you very much for this change! I can go back to playing pve more often again. 

    Recently I had basically given up on pve and strictly doing PvP & ddq.  With this change I can start getting more rewards from the game again. Thanks again D3!

    Let's be careful giving feedback to d3 without giving indication of your roster level.
    If you are a 5* player, you represent a small percentage of the player base. And as you know, may set up the majority of players for grand misinterpretation by the devs.
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2017
    Orion said:

    So I was able to do the final grind for one sub and the initial clears for the next in less than 1 hour.  That's fantastic.  It normally takes 2 1/2 hours and I'm falling asleep before I finish.  Is the smaller CL7 rewards worth 1.5 hours less of grind time?  Hell yeah it is.  Plus I can get top 5 rewards instead of top 100 rewards in CL8 because I didn't want to put that much time into PvE every day.
    I can totally follow your line of reasoning.

    But the problem is that if the system goes live like this, everyone who isn't already in 5* land can completely forget about placement, in any SCL.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    WEBGAS said:

    So this change is good for top roster players, but an abomination for all the others stuck in 4* transiction and even worse for those who are still in 2*-3* transiction.
    I understand the first part of your complaint, but what are 2->3* transitioners doing in CL7/CL8 trying to compete for 4* covers? CL5 or 6 seem like way better fits, given their roster needs.
    To reiterate though: This is a test, probably the first of a couple. Choose Your Own Difficulty will certainly become a fixture, but I highly doubt the giant 7/8 risk vs reward disparity will continue as it is built in test 1.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    Orion said:
    So, I'm one of those 5* players that dropped down to CL7 to see what it was like.

    First sub opened up and the easy nodes were down to level 23.  NBD, Thanos takes them all out anyway.  Oddly, the 2* essential node scaled even higher than it used to for me.  I could see that being a problem for the people that are supposed to be in CL7.  The hard nodes were super easy as well and even at max level, most enemies could still be taken out by a single Court Death.  Total clear time - 30 minutes.

    When I was ready for the grind time I debated how long to take.  30 minutes?  25 minutes?  I ended up splitting the difference and going with 27 minutes.  Ground down everything to 0 with 3 minutes to spare and ended up 2nd.  2nd sub opened and I finished the first 4 clears in about 25 minutes.  Again, I was 2nd after the initial clears.

    So I was able to do the final grind for one sub and the initial clears for the next in less than 1 hour.  That's fantastic.  It normally takes 2 1/2 hours and I'm falling asleep before I finish.  Is the smaller CL7 rewards worth 1.5 hours less of grind time?  Hell yeah it is.  Plus I can get top 5 rewards instead of top 100 rewards in CL8 because I didn't want to put that much time into PvE every day.
    I was gonna give my own thoughts, but this is them.  My combined final grind + 4clear last night was ~48 minutes.  If it stays like that, I'll actually try to compete in PvE again.  ~1 hour I can do, 2-2.5 I won't.
  • WEBGAS
    WEBGAS Posts: 474 Mover and Shaker
    @GrumpySmurf1002  
    My statement was to complain for the 4*players treatment......(as you clearly understood  :)  )
    I included 2*-3* transiction palyers as well because I feel for them too and I think that if things are going this way, they will be forever in that limbo, unable to raise because in cl6 and cl7 they will be unable to reach top100, so the rewards will be very poor

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