making a decision on dealing with wasted covers

NewMcG

Ughlah said:

 And since i'm now hoarding heroic tokens as well the cover progression in 2* and 3* land is slowed even more.

Now, that is a real problem.

That seems unnecessary. Only about 1 in 20 will drop a 4*, and even those few can be sold for iso should you "luck" into one you don't want/need. You're stifling your 2s and 3s for no reason by not pulling the heroics

Magic

I might be in minority but for me the cover distribution is more of a problem than iso itself. I can, with relative effort, champion any 4* in less than 2 weeks. And I think it's fine (sure - would love to do it every 5 days but 10-12 days seems ok). But I prefer to get a cover for Cloak and Dagger or Rocket and Groot then add a level to my Cage or Gwenpool, or Venom or Spider-Woman (all championed). So I need to hoard and wait for them to rotate out.

Pylgrim

Problem with human nature is that we tend to focus on the negative. Yes, what OP mentions about pulling unnecessary covers is true. However, what is /also/ true is that we are pulling many covers for characters that we already have championed. I, too, have opened what feels like dozens of purple Mordos and green Riris. But I have opened as well dozens of covers for my champed Carol, Medusa, Peggy and a few others. In fewer than a couple months, they have surpassed my previously highest leveled 4*s (Hulkbuster and Jean) who had been accumulating that many covers for over a year. I believe that that, at the very least, evens out the bad.

Fightmastermpq

Magic said:

I might be in minority but for me the cover distribution is more of a problem than iso itself. I can, with relative effort, champion any 4* in less than 2 weeks. And I think it's fine (sure - would love to do it every 5 days but 10-12 days seems ok). But I prefer to get a cover for Cloak and Dagger or Rocket and Groot then add a level to my Cage or Gwenpool, or Venom or Spider-Woman (all championed). So I need to hoard and wait for them to rotate out.

Wait, am I reading this right, you are trying NOT to add champ levels?

I don't understand this.  If you had them all at say 5 covers then OK yeah, but if you have been earning 4* covers fast enough for you to have champed those 4 then you are not at any risk of being cover starved on any of the characters that will enter the pool in the future.

Is this some kind of strategy to hoard up 4* pulls so that you can try to get some future group of 4* characters to or close to 370???

Milk Jugz

Spidurman27 said:

I agree that the system completely encourages hoarding - I'm doing it out of sheer desperation.

Right now out of the current 12,
5 champs
5 at 11-13 covers
So I'm basically pulling for Danny and Cloak.  Who are at 7 and 6 respectively.  

After this season, I'll have champed 2 of the 5, one more out of tokens (Cage 5-2-5).

So then I'll be at 
6 champs (1 out, 2 in)
2 at the 11-13 range
4 pulling to improve

And this is before calculating PVE/PVP cover acquisition over the next three+ weeks - I'll clearly earn more and waste a few more before then.

There's zero logical reason for me to be pulling right now, and frankly I don't like it.  But I prefer to play smart, so I wait.

I agree, there is zero logic for me to be pulling right now also, I have 1 latest champed, two more soon to be (probably by Mon), 3 more fully covered, 3 at 12 covers, 1 at 11, 1 at 9, and C&D at 3. I keep getting AV and SW covers because I hate hoarding....... Trying again though starting yesterday...... See how long that lasts......

MissChinch

Fightmastermpq said:

Magic said:

I might be in minority but for me the cover distribution is more of a problem than iso itself. I can, with relative effort, champion any 4* in less than 2 weeks. And I think it's fine (sure - would love to do it every 5 days but 10-12 days seems ok). But I prefer to get a cover for Cloak and Dagger or Rocket and Groot then add a level to my Cage or Gwenpool, or Venom or Spider-Woman (all championed). So I need to hoard and wait for them to rotate out.

Wait, am I reading this right, you are trying NOT to add champ levels?

I don't understand this.  If you had them all at say 5 covers then OK yeah, but if you have been earning 4* covers fast enough for you to have champed those 4 then you are not at any risk of being cover starved on any of the characters that will enter the pool in the future.

Is this some kind of strategy to hoard up 4* pulls so that you can try to get some future group of 4* characters to or close to 370???

You can control cover distribution among your 4*s by waiting for the less desirable to move out... 

For each 4* about to retire you can:

- Determine its just flat out not even worth getting cover and not pull at all until its gone (I doubt many people will do this, I feel like its overly risky because covers are very difficult to acquire once the character leaves the featured 12)

- Determine its likely useless and not worth the iso to champ, so just get it to 13 covers, don't champ and let it retire before pulling

- Determine its worth the iso but not likely to be absolutely amazing, so you champion, get it to 271 (the reward is another pull, so no opportunity cost on pulls there and then hoard till it retires

- Decide its amazing and going to be amazing for a long time and blow your hoard trying to get champ levels (an opportunity you would never have if you just pull regardless of how useless the current expiring hero may be)

That totally discounts the people that don't want to lose out on the opportunity to get these 4* covers, but are really just concerned about spending their CP and LTs to maximize 5* coverage.

So lots of reasons to purposely not pull that don't involve fear of wasting a cover due to non-champ.

Jaedenkaal

I'd much rather take the incremental advantage of opening my tokens now and being able to use most of them right away than hold out for some apparently larger advantage in the arbitrarily distant future.

It's more fun now, and I have no reason to believe that it won't continue to be fun even if I get to that point in time where it would have technically been "better" to hoard all my tokens until. 

Rick_OShay

Jaedenkaal said:

I'd much rather take the incremental advantage of opening my tokens now and being able to use most of them right away than hold out for some apparently larger advantage in the arbitrarily distant future.

It's more fun now, and I have no reason to believe that it won't continue to be fun even if I get to that point in time where it would have technically been "better" to hoard all my tokens until. 

That's the same thing I stated in a different thread... but yours was much better!

broll

Fightmastermpq said:

Magic said:

I might be in minority but for me the cover distribution is more of a problem than iso itself. I can, with relative effort, champion any 4* in less than 2 weeks. And I think it's fine (sure - would love to do it every 5 days but 10-12 days seems ok). But I prefer to get a cover for Cloak and Dagger or Rocket and Groot then add a level to my Cage or Gwenpool, or Venom or Spider-Woman (all championed). So I need to hoard and wait for them to rotate out.

Wait, am I reading this right, you are trying NOT to add champ levels?

I don't understand this.  If you had them all at say 5 covers then OK yeah, but if you have been earning 4* covers fast enough for you to have champed those 4 then you are not at any risk of being cover starved on any of the characters that will enter the pool in the future.

Is this some kind of strategy to hoard up 4* pulls so that you can try to get some future group of 4* characters to or close to 370???

I don't think it has anything to do with getting to 370.  I think has more to do with the merits of hoarding and vaulting only increased those.
 
The only way to reliably get 5*s is still to hoard and pull from classics, The BH percentage for a 5* of 1:7 every 1:20 so 1:140  (0.7%) hasn't significantly changed that.  So there is still a need to hoard if you ever intend to get any 5* champed. 

Another merit of hoarding is if you have 120-240 CP or more if a cover for a top tier vaulted character comes that isn't usable and you're sitting at 11 or 12 covers it's much more tempting to pay the 120-240 CP to finish that character out than it was before because RNGsus knows when you'll get a usable one.

sandalsnopants

Pylgrim said:

Problem with human nature is that we tend to focus on the negative. Yes, what OP mentions about pulling unnecessary covers is true. However, what is /also/ true is that we are pulling many covers for characters that we already have championed. I, too, have opened what feels like dozens of purple Mordos and green Riris. But I have opened as well dozens of covers for my champed Carol, Medusa, Peggy and a few others. In fewer than a couple months, they have surpassed my previously highest leveled 4*s (Hulkbuster and Jean) who had been accumulating that many covers for over a year. I believe that that, at the very least, evens out the bad.

Is anyone disputing that this change benefits players who have been playing the longest the most?

MissChinch

sandalsnopants said:

Pylgrim said:

Problem with human nature is that we tend to focus on the negative. Yes, what OP mentions about pulling unnecessary covers is true. However, what is /also/ true is that we are pulling many covers for characters that we already have championed. I, too, have opened what feels like dozens of purple Mordos and green Riris. But I have opened as well dozens of covers for my champed Carol, Medusa, Peggy and a few others. In fewer than a couple months, they have surpassed my previously highest leveled 4*s (Hulkbuster and Jean) who had been accumulating that many covers for over a year. I believe that that, at the very least, evens out the bad.

Is anyone disputing that this change benefits players who have been playing the longest the most?

Anecdotally I've seen lots of claims that it was done for the benefit of the new player, a good amount of claims that it shouldn't impact the established player much if they want to conform to a new playstyle, but that it pretty much screws the person caught in the 3/4 transition.  And long term = paradise for all, everything gets covered... no shortage blah blah...

sandalsnopants

MissChinch said:

sandalsnopants said:

Pylgrim said:

Problem with human nature is that we tend to focus on the negative. Yes, what OP mentions about pulling unnecessary covers is true. However, what is /also/ true is that we are pulling many covers for characters that we already have championed. I, too, have opened what feels like dozens of purple Mordos and green Riris. But I have opened as well dozens of covers for my champed Carol, Medusa, Peggy and a few others. In fewer than a couple months, they have surpassed my previously highest leveled 4*s (Hulkbuster and Jean) who had been accumulating that many covers for over a year. I believe that that, at the very least, evens out the bad.

Is anyone disputing that this change benefits players who have been playing the longest the most?

Anecdotally I've seen lots of claims that it was done for the benefit of the new player, a good amount of claims that it shouldn't impact the established player much if they want to conform to a new playstyle, but that it pretty much screws the person caught in the 3/4 transition.  And long term = paradise for all, everything gets covered... no shortage blah blah...

sorry, besides the people behind the change.  and yeah, I'm in that 3/4 transition. bleh.  

bbigler

I'll add my 2 cents...........I started hoarding in November out of necessity (lack of ISO).  After 3 months, I started buying Classics again to build my 4*s, but kept a minimum 1000 CP in the bank.  My 4* tier grew and I continued to hoard LTs.

Then vaulting happened.  I only had about 8 x 4* Champs, none in the latest 12.  So I simply continued to open Classics and build the new 4*s, focusing on the ones that would be vaulted soon.  I champed Peggy, Wasp and Medusa, but now only Medusa remains in the pool. 

I have a new plan now, which is a long term plan to transition to 5*.  This plan takes into account that the 4* tier will be less useful once I have champed 5*s (the same way my 3* tier is much less useful now that I have champed 4*s).  My plan goes like this:

Step 1 - Continue to hoard LT and spend part of my CP to champ the latest 4*s, with an emphasis on the most recent ones.  Once I have the better half of them champed, go to step 2.

Step 2 - Hoard all LT and CP and 85% of my ISO until I have at least 280 LL pulls (I currently have 132 pulls).  All other tokens will be pulled, champ rewards will continue, along with some character leveling. 

Step 3 - If I'm interested in the latest pool of 5*s, then I'll open the hoard, otherwise, I'll keep hoarding.  Once the hoard is opened, I should have enough saved ISO to champ all of the latest 4*s and 5*s. 

Step 4 - Enjoy playing with all the new characters and see how 5* land is.  During this time, I would start hoarding again. 

spiderpool

Jaedenkaal said:

Easiest until your phone runs out of memory storing all the information it needs to store about the 6000 covers you have banked.

So put a limit on the amount of covers you can have in que. Plus isn't the info stored on d3's servers? I don't think having more covers, iso, hp, or anything else changes the amount of memory your phone uses to run the game. 

MissChinch

bbigler said:

I'll add my 2 cents...........I started hoarding in November out of necessity (lack of ISO).  After 3 months, I started buying Classics again to build my 4*s, but kept a minimum 1000 CP in the bank.  My 4* tier grew and I continued to hoard LTs.

Then vaulting happened.  I only had about 8 x 4* Champs, none in the latest 12.  So I simply continued to open Classics and build the new 4*s, focusing on the ones that would be vaulted soon.  I champed Peggy, Wasp and Medusa, but now only Medusa remains in the pool. 

I have a new plan now, which is a long term plan to transition to 5*.  This plan takes into account that the 4* tier will be less useful once I have champed 5*s (the same way my 3* tier is much less useful now that I have champed 4*s).  My plan goes like this:

Step 1 - Continue to hoard LT and spend part of my CP to champ the latest 4*s, with an emphasis on the most recent ones.  Once I have the better half of them champed, go to step 2.

Step 2 - Hoard all LT and CP and 85% of my ISO until I have at least 280 LL pulls (I currently have 132 pulls).  All other tokens will be pulled, champ rewards will continue, along with some character leveling. 

Step 3 - If I'm interested in the latest pool of 5*s, then I'll open the hoard, otherwise, I'll keep hoarding.  Once the hoard is opened, I should have enough saved ISO to champ all of the latest 4*s and 5*s. 

Step 4 - Enjoy playing with all the new characters and see how 5* land is.  During this time, I would start hoarding again. 

Sounds like a solid plan, I'm still trying to figure out how much of the 4* tier I want to give up on in favor of getting 5*s covered... Finding a way to that ~280ish pulls is tricky, and I am looking forward to the time when I have the oldest featured 4* at 13 covers so I can use that month to just replenish the hoard.

edgewriter

My problem is the fact that EVERYONE has that same twelve characters. New players as well as old. This makes PVP boring as I only ever see Peggy or Yellow Marvel or Wasp.

Bowgentle

MissChinch said:

bbigler said:

I'll add my 2 cents...........I started hoarding in November out of necessity (lack of ISO).  After 3 months, I started buying Classics again to build my 4*s, but kept a minimum 1000 CP in the bank.  My 4* tier grew and I continued to hoard LTs.

Then vaulting happened.  I only had about 8 x 4* Champs, none in the latest 12.  So I simply continued to open Classics and build the new 4*s, focusing on the ones that would be vaulted soon.  I champed Peggy, Wasp and Medusa, but now only Medusa remains in the pool. 

I have a new plan now, which is a long term plan to transition to 5*.  This plan takes into account that the 4* tier will be less useful once I have champed 5*s (the same way my 3* tier is much less useful now that I have champed 4*s).  My plan goes like this:

Step 1 - Continue to hoard LT and spend part of my CP to champ the latest 4*s, with an emphasis on the most recent ones.  Once I have the better half of them champed, go to step 2.

Step 2 - Hoard all LT and CP and 85% of my ISO until I have at least 280 LL pulls (I currently have 132 pulls).  All other tokens will be pulled, champ rewards will continue, along with some character leveling. 

Step 3 - If I'm interested in the latest pool of 5*s, then I'll open the hoard, otherwise, I'll keep hoarding.  Once the hoard is opened, I should have enough saved ISO to champ all of the latest 4*s and 5*s. 

Step 4 - Enjoy playing with all the new characters and see how 5* land is.  During this time, I would start hoarding again. 

Sounds like a solid plan, I'm still trying to figure out how much of the 4* tier I want to give up on in favor of getting 5*s covered... Finding a way to that ~280ish pulls is tricky, and I am looking forward to the time when I have the oldest featured 4* at 13 covers so I can use that month to just replenish the hoard.

You keep writing this and I don't get the mindset.

Say you cover the 3 latest 5s.

What then?
You'll be stuck using those characters for a very, very long time.

Unless you plan to go into hoard mode right away for another six months to cover the next 3 5s.
I'd die of boredom if I KNOW I'll be stuck with the same guys for 6 months at a time.

Why not just wait until a new 5 goes into tokens (say, the one after Starlord), then pull LTs and CP on Latest as you get them, using all the champ levels on 4s to generate resources that give you more Latest pulls, building up your army of 4s to very high champ levels.

Believe me, using 12 very high level 4s will be much more fun than entering the 5* realm with 3 characters and stuck using those for 6 months.

Fightmastermpq

I agree with Bow.  IMO a better hoarding strategy for new players and vets alike is to save up Latest Legendary tokens until you have enough to cover all 3 of them, and use all your CP on classic tokens with the primary goal of continuing to work on the newest 4*s.  If RNGesus smiles on you, you might actually end up with a usable classic 5*, but more importantly you'll still manage to get a whole crop of usable 4*s which will add some nice roster diversity and increase competitiveness.

And if you are able to generate enough Latest pulls to keep up with the 5* release rate you don't even have to hoard them at all!

mpqr7

I just won yet another Car4l Black from an LT! 

It would have been useful if I didn't already have 5 of them, or if I had at least 13 covers of her, but alas I am in that very annoying middle section where she only has 11 useful covers, so the rest are useless dupes.

What a waste of effort! Oh, well.

Fightmastermpq

mpqr7 said:

I just won yet another Car4l Black from an LT! 

It would have been useful if I didn't already have 5 of them, or if I had at least 13 covers of her, but alas I am in that very annoying middle section where she only has 11 useful covers, so the rest are useless dupes.

What a waste of effort! Oh, well.

I had this problem with C4rol as well.  I had her at 1 green forever and kept pulling nothing but black and yellow covers.  Thanks to vaulting though I was able to pull the last two green covers before all those black and yellow ones expired and so when I champed her I was able to add 9 levels to her immediately!