The Baral Nerf.

morgue427

it is what it is honestly i knew it was going to cause problems and expected it to be a loss overall so not super concerned about it. just have to wait and see how it affects the game long run if it works for me i will use it if not another in a long pile of useless cards

Zachandros

I can just argue that they deleted the card i bought from my library (and gave me a differpicture, only with the same name and picture).
That's against the terms.

MTG_Mage

I think the change to Baral will make it a functionally better card which will be used in more decks, so it is an improvement!
The broken version is a combo engine which I am shocked that the devs allowed to be released despite the community warning them, but more importantly how did they not see its potential abuse?

Since they know that if the card is changed in any way people will demand refund and therefore they will be losing money, the simple way to prevent the looping is to adjust a few key cards.

The ones allowing for the looping are any 3 or less that also draw a card or generate mana, which there are only 4 problematic cards:
costal discovery, 
stratus walk,
Artificer's Epiphany
and natural connection.
Make those 4 cards cost 4 and the problem is solved (devs also need to be aware that in the future any card costing 3 or less cant do those things) I also feel that 'imprisoned in the moon' needs to have its cost raised to like 8.


Another solution that solves ALL looping issues

Implement it so that any player can cast a maximum of say 10 cards per turn, after that point it goes to combat and turn end.

This number can be as low as 6, which is a full hand. Even with huge cascades and a few extra swaps (from match 5) its not too often a player casts more than 6, which requires card draw and more matches. A cap of 10 is plenty and stops combos before they get too big, but still allows for them enough to keep all styles of players happy. Plus it should be easy to code, so its a good solution for the devs as well.

THEMAGICkMAN

The reasoning behind not changing 3 cost spells was actually very solid - if they did that then it limits design potential as now every < 3 cost spell has to be checked. By nerfing Baral himself they don't limit themselves. The second option I personally don't like (I loooooove loops) because I feel that loops and combos are a pretty essential part of magic, so long as they aren't insanely OP like baral loops.

Ohboy

Infinite loops are what makes casual magic great. I think the problem with baral is that it's not actually 100% infinite(and that it's easy to set up) , so players can't just tap out and say "got to your win condition, well played", like in paper Mtg. 

Mainloop25

@THEMAGICkMAN I think Brigby said as much in a comment somewhere about a week ago

THEMAGICkMAN

Yep. That's what I was referring too. 

gillkonam

Excuse me, perhaps I'm stupid, Baral seems to work like he's always worked. So how was he nerfed exactly? If he's playing the same way he always has, if the loops keep happening, how is he nerfed?

THEMAGICkMAN

gillkonam said:

Excuse me, perhaps I'm stupid, Baral seems to work like he's always worked. So how was he nerfed exactly? If he's playing the same way he always has, if the loops keep happening, how is he nerfed?

The nerf hasn't made it in game yet... the patch was delayed...

morgue427

find out today although i  battled a baral in a gunbunny deck regular jace (shocking i know lol)

ridfrenzy

Looking forward to the Baral change, don't look forward to playing him coz the decks are tedious and don't look forward to playing against him because of the potential for a one shot.

Gunmix25

While I agree that the present Baral with the loop needed fixing. But I vehemently disagree that his new version is weaker than many are believing him to be in other threads.  This 4 mana given to EVERY spell in hand at the beginning of EVERY turn  EVERY time makes him more of a powerful shotgun card, for almost every other turn a player can release huge amounts of 8 mana spells or even those with a little higher cost that are paid with the additional mana earned from swapping. This will essentially create small yet powerful loops of effects to occur in the hands of a good player. Baral being nerfed from a one time 3 mana to a spell to a 4 mana to a spell every turn is huge imho. Thoughts?

AngelForge

I wonder what happens, when he enter the battlefield. I haven't noticed any comment on that or have I overseen it?

morgue427

4 every round? and replace the cards cast? dang still op i was thinking 4 once at beginning of round

Gunmix25

morgue427 said:

4 every round? and replace the cards cast? dang 

From the update thread: We are making a change to Baral, Chief of Compliance: He now gives 4 mana to each spell in your hand at the beginning of your turn, instead of giving mana to a spell when you draw it. This change will remove the infinite cycling ability Baral has while keeping his strong affinity for spells.

We also explored removing the card draw from it, but it would change the card too much. We still want it to be a major spell driver and help you cycle your spells, and if we removed the draw it would lose a lot of it’s potential.

The card’s cost will remain unaffected.

Gunmix25

AngelForge said:

I wonder what happens, when he enter the battlefield. I haven't noticed any comment on that or have I overseen it?

Nothing happens when he hits the battlefield.  His effect now occurs whenever a spell is cast, he will draw a card. The other ability is that he will continually load 4 mana into every spell in your hand at the beginning of your turn... making expensive spell enmasse far more accessible than before whereas a normal deck build would only dare to have one maybe two expensive spells.  The new Baral helps grind out these big spells quickly and reloads your hand to boot whenever you cast a spell. Think of it this way,  Baral loading spells you've got turned off from being cast too early and you releasing these spells at once in a round can and likely will recreate a short yet far more destructive loop effect in the hands of a good deck builder. I almost think he is more OP than before,  but game play will decide that outcome. Regardless though,  this new version is going to be a blast to play

tiaxotrax

it seems he will be more destructive when played by a player but less evil when played by the PC.  He won't just be able to win by rolling his face around on the phone. casting 50-75 spells in a row and pumping out thopters nibis and sram

morgue427

i guess those 20 spells might be a lot more possible thats for sure

shteev

Gunmix25 said:

AngelForge said:

I wonder what happens, when he enter the battlefield. I haven't noticed any comment on that or have I overseen it?

Nothing happens when he hits the battlefield. 

Whoah, wait a second! Read this carefully: It doesn't say anything about changing what happens when he hits the battlefield.

From the update thread: We are making a change to Baral, Chief of Compliance: He now gives 4 mana to each spell in your hand at the beginning of your turn, instead of giving mana to a spell when you draw it. This change will remove the infinite cycling ability Baral has while keeping his strong affinity for spells.We also explored removing the card draw from it, but it would change the card too much. We still want it to be a major spell driver and help you cycle your spells, and if we removed the draw it would lose a lot of it’s potential.

The card’s cost will remain unaffected.

Gunmix25

tiaxotrax said:

it seems he will be more destructive when played by a player but less evil when played by the PC.  He won't just be able to win by rolling his face around on the phone. casting 50-75 spells in a row and pumping out thopters nibis and sram

I agree. The AI is programmed to play spells immediately when fully loaded which is a blessing in disguise. But I have seen the AI play musical chairs with half loaded cards to help load other cards based on what I played on the battlefield.  I suspect that this could lead to a few nasty surprises in the future when playing against the AI but I don't expect it to be often as its certainly situational.