The Baral Nerf.

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  • kauppila
    kauppila Posts: 48 Just Dropped In
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    Yes. the biggest complaint is not that the card is OP, but that those of us who paid $ for him less than 1 month ago are now using something that isn't what we purchased.
    With most of the other changes to cards, they were cards from packs or cards from rewards, so where there is an investment somewhere, it's much less clear about the direct cost to the player/consumer.

    Here we have a blatant bait & switch which could have been solved in many ways before the card was put into the store.  We all knew it was great before it was even put up there.

    Now, I do agree it needed to change.  It was very much changing the game and could be difficult if not impossible to play against, but then there are many times when that happens.

    I was just playing against the World Breaker in OOtG:1 and it had a 20+ card run including multiple Nissa's Revelation, Kozileks and World Breakers being cast, wiping my board and causing an eventual loss.  Now, maybe not as clear nor as impactful as running into a Baral chain during an event, but still annoying for sure.

    So, yes, where I agree change was needed, he is no longer the card that I paid $ for and as such there should be some form of compensation offered.
  • tiaxotrax
    tiaxotrax Posts: 20 Just Dropped In
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    We knew the card was broke when we bought it we all had plans of dominating the game with it and we did amazing but it should not be possible to go from 

    172 thopters

    [IMG]http://i63.tinypic.com/ip8fuv.png[/IMG]

    to 

    244 thopters

    [IMG]http://i68.tinypic.com/eitdi1.png[/IMG]

    in between the start and the finish of a single round.

    It should not be possible to have 244 thopters by the 4th round of a battle.

    Tezz from 3.3 in RATC should not be defeteated in the 4th round.    and it's all because of 3 cards powered primarily by Baral.

    and the fact that with Tezz the schemer as a black blue pw Baral can show up in EVERY single color node.

    so yes we bought a broke card. we abused it as much as possible and now it's being fixed.  No need to cry just wait till the next set comes out throw more money at D3 get the next broke card and abuse it till we get nerfed again.
  • FreshD
    FreshD Posts: 7 Just Dropped In
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    hawkyh1 said:
    should those who bought tez2 for money have
    a case to get a refund because now he's going
    to be in the vault for crystals?(what they have
    paid for has changed) some similarities with
    asking for a refund with baral?

    HH
    No. Planeswalkers will always become available for crystals eventually - that's part of the deal, you pay for early access. That is well known and pretty obvious even to new players. Also you got a 2-colored planeswalker (650 crystals) and - what? - 160(?) units of Unobtanium, which would need 11 Trial events for 60 crystals each. These 1300 crystals would cost 49.99$, which is your prize for the Tezeret pack (plus some Runes and early access).

    Having said that, I'm really posting here to spread some positivity. I bought Baral and I am really excited by this "Nerf". And I don't mean because playing against him is awful - nor that I think this change is OK. I think that I will have much more fun playing him in the new version.
    Yes. when I bought him I realized the potential for looping and yes, I build two decks making use of that. I even got win-on-turn-X-badges with them. But that was never the reason I bought him (it gets boring very fast imho). My goal was to build burn decks with Saheeli  or big creature decks with Kiora that are supported by blue mana gain/card draw/scry. Baral offered two of those blue features - and he does that even better after the change.

    Did you really get into this game to push a button and let your phone win the game for you while you do other things? I'm in for the fun of playing. And - yes that also can be a ridiculous good starting hand and 1 or 2 crazy cascades that result in a turn 2 win - every once in a while. But it can also be  being down to 5 life in turn 18 screaming and kicking and wanting to destroy your phone and then still turn it around. And it can be the stupid deck idea that just doesn't work out. IT IS A GAME. Return to PLAYING!

    "It is the unknown we fear when we look upon death and darkness. Nothing more."

    Fresh Dumbledore
  • hawkyh1
    hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
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    ^^

    just for the record. I don't own baral. my questions
    were for owners of baral arguing their case to have
    a refund because of the upcoming baral changes.

    HH
  • gruntface
    gruntface Posts: 161 Tile Toppler
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    I have purchased 2 items in my year or so in the game, gisela and Baral. Gisela remains a staple in many of my white decks.

    With Baral, like many others, we saw how broken he was and how he could help with certain speed challenges that are often stupid. Like beating down a creature with 350+ health in 4 rounds that JC assured us could be done (thinking about it I wonder if Baral was part of that deck that was never shared??).

    Anyhow, whilst he may not get me speed wins any more I am looking forward to developing decks suited to his new skill set. Frankly, loading my hand with cheap common spells led to my dullest battles and yes I am lazy and limited enough to exploit the looping. Now I am forced to adopt a different approach the opportunities are more interesting. I will still get massive value from him (maybe not $30 but it's naive to assume he would never be fixed so it was an eyes open purchase) and with an ever decreasing flow of every type of currency/cards, he will be a staple in many decks going forward. 

    I am far more concerned about the qb removal as not sure the new system will let people level up PW enough to get value from them. Rather than redress the balance this makes things far far worse. But that's for another thread :)
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Now, guys... you have playtested it this time to make sure it's not busted, haven't you?

    Because I dunno, it may not win games on turn 1, but it still seems a little strong to me...
  • losdamianos
    losdamianos Posts: 429 Mover and Shaker
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    prepare for harness, devils combo
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,242 Chairperson of the Boards
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    span_argoman said:
    [lots of wisdom]

    So the issue is this, they went ahead and sold a card that they knew would be broken. After all, they have said that they do playtest the new cards and events. The community almost immediately highlighted these card and were proven right. The cynical take on Baral would then be that they baited players to buy Baral for cash knowing that it would have to be nerfed. So all this was another attempt to extract money from the players.

    An alternative take is that the developers are not good enough to spot such exploits and do not listen to the community's view on these cards. And in this take, it means we should stop caring about the game because our concerns are not being heard and problems are cropping up at a frequency which is much too often.

    Neither are pleasant to contemplate.

    I think you just did a fantastic job of summarizing the entire experience, sir.  It's very disheartening.

    As part of the group that was calling for a nerf before he was even released, and letting everyone know that he would surely be nerfed, I've generally had little sympathy for purchasers. I haven't asked for, or expected, a refund, because I got my money's worth for the few weeks he was utterly broken. I knew it was coming, and I admit that skews my view. 

    Consider that when Olivia came out, and triggered her ability without discarding madness cards, she was insanely broken. They changed her, but as everyone knows, she remained powerful. Baral also remains powerful. I look forward to using him in his new incarnation. 

    However, despite my general lack of sympathy, after thinking about it--and considering span_argoman's excellent post, I believe that the best way for d3go to demonstrate community goodwill, and prove that it wasn't simply an exploitative cash grab, is to say mea culpa and refund everyone's purchase.  



  • AngelForge
    AngelForge Posts: 325 Mover and Shaker
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    Well, to refund everyone who bought Baral is maybe not a bad idea. But since we all know that there is no legal claim for a refund, they can show good will and give all Baral owners an ingame compensation (I feel like I have to point out here that mana runes are no compensation ;-D ).
  • EDHdad
    EDHdad Posts: 609 Critical Contributor
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    I don't know about refunding everyone's money, but it would be a nice gesture if they let people exchange their Baral for a mythic card of their choice.
  • Volrak
    Volrak Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
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    EDHdad said:
    I don't know about refunding everyone's money, but it would be a nice gesture if they let people exchange their Baral for a mythic card of their choice.
    Incredibly optimistic!  It would be the first "mythic of our choice" in the history of the game.

    madwren said:

    I believe that the best way for d3go to demonstrate community goodwill, and prove that it wasn't simply an exploitative cash grab, is to say mea culpa and refund everyone's purchase. 
    Also incredibly optimistic; this effectively hands out post-"nerf" Baral - possibly the most powerful blue creature in the game - to some subset of the player-base for free.  Unless you mean giving refunds and also taking back everyone's Baral.

    In any case, I can't fault the attitude!  I like it far better than boring old doom & gloom.
  • Zachandros
    Zachandros Posts: 2 Just Dropped In
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    Please don't do that nerf.
    First of all, it is just not necessary.
    If you raise the mana cost of coastal discovery and artificers epiphany to 4, the deck loses a lot consistency and the loops will be much shorter. Also change imprisoned in the moon to make it produce a support that makes mana for your opponent instead of a creature.

    That's already enough to nerf the looping, not that i had a problem. ..

    But if you really nerf him, i definitely want my money back. Changing him is against googles terms of service.


  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Zachandros said:
    But if you really nerf him, i definitely want my money back. Changing him is against googles terms of service.
    Interesting. Could you post the relevant part please?
  • AngelForge
    AngelForge Posts: 325 Mover and Shaker
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    shteev said:
    Zachandros said:
    But if you really nerf him, i definitely want my money back. Changing him is against googles terms of service.
    Interesting. Could you post the relevant part please?
    Glancing over Googles Terms of Service it seems more like that D3go is their customer and we are the customers of D3go. So, refering to Google is pointless, IMO.
    All you need to know is in the text that you read carefully before you start playing any games from D3go or spending real money on any of their virtual products...
  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
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    khurram said:
    The change to baral actually makes him much more flexible to use and therefore better, in my opinion. I dont want to just sit there and cast boring 3 mana spells all day. I'd take the new baral over the current version gladly. And he will see more play, at least in my decks.
    i think so too i didnt have him in all of my blue decks but for 8 he is cheap enough to put in the rest of them and work with him and a few 4 cost spells,heck with tezz 2 you are most of the way to a cheap kill  out of the gate ;-) Plus ghostly wings which i couldnt justify using before makes sense now a permanent 1/1 plus flying. even anticipate to help weed through to get the cards you want or chilling grasp to disable.
  • Steeme
    Steeme Posts: 784 Critical Contributor
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    morgue427 said:
    khurram said:
    The change to baral actually makes him much more flexible to use and therefore better, in my opinion. I dont want to just sit there and cast boring 3 mana spells all day. I'd take the new baral over the current version gladly. And he will see more play, at least in my decks.
    i think so too i didnt have him in all of my blue decks but for 8 he is cheap enough to put in the rest of them and work with him and a few 4 cost spells,heck with tezz 2 you are most of the way to a cheap kill  out of the gate ;-) Plus ghostly wings which i couldnt justify using before makes sense now a permanent 1/1 plus flying. even anticipate to help weed through to get the cards you want or chilling grasp to disable.

    You could just broaden your horizon and look at more costly spells as well.  Think about BTB.  Typically I have to make a decision whether to start charging it up or to play something else first.  But if Baral is on board, you could leave it near the bottom disabled while playing the rest of your hand (perhaps another Baral) and it basically just gains 4 mana per turn for free.
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,064 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Zachandros said:
    Please don't do that nerf.
    First of all, it is just not necessary.
    If you raise the mana cost of coastal discovery and artificers epiphany to 4, the deck loses a lot consistency and the loops will be much shorter. Also change imprisoned in the moon to make it produce a support that makes mana for your opponent instead of a creature.

    That's already enough to nerf the looping, not that i had a problem. ..

    But if you really nerf him, i definitely want my money back. Changing him is against googles terms of service.


    This doesn't work. Just upping the cost of a couple spells means that throughout the entire future of the game they can't release spells that cost 3 or less that have any level of power because Baral exists. It's better to make a change to this one card than to have to change several others and severely change the way any future card can be released.
  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
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    if i had some of those good more expensive ones yes lol, only been play about 6 months, so i am missing some key cards , and yes i had considered more expensive cards too. i tend to prefer cheap easy to cast versatile deck rather than one trick pony decks, why i hated baral so much
  • Mainloop25
    Mainloop25 Posts: 1,943 Chairperson of the Boards
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    It's still going to be an awesome card. Feel free to try to get your money back if you can, though. I know people who went through Apple and were able to get refunds on it, but Google Play had more trouble.

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