Do we boycott Vintage Heroics?

broll

If we get any free tokens I'll use them, but I will not pay any currency or real money for them. It would like result in 2*s anyway

broll

Jamie Madrox wrote:

Boycott is not the answer. If these new tokens sell well, I can see them becoming a permanent thing. I can even see them going as far as swapping an event token for one of these in each event or adding one of these tokens to progression rewards.

But none of that is going to happen if the knee-jerk negative reactions to every positive step keep happening.

I guess you and I have a different definition of positive step.

Arix90

Low sales for this token = low interest in vaulted characters = less effort to make them more availible

Actually its the opposite you should boycott regular heroic tokens and only buy vintage

Quebbster

It would be pretty neat if these Vintage Heroic tokens could also be used as rewards in Lightning rounds, considering that two-thirds of the featured characters in Lightning rounds aren't available in regular tokens anymore.

JamieMadrox

broll wrote:

Jamie Madrox wrote:

Boycott is not the answer. If these new tokens sell well, I can see them becoming a permanent thing. I can even see them going as far as swapping an event token for one of these in each event or adding one of these tokens to progression rewards.

But none of that is going to happen if the knee-jerk negative reactions to every positive step keep happening.

I guess you and I have a different definition of positive step.

We're being given something new that could potentially become permanent. How that isn't a positive step is beyond me. Yes vaulting sucks, but this is a first step in making it suck less. I expect it's also not the last step either.

Yes Demiurge and D3 want to make money. It's how they keep the lights on, employees paid, servers running, etc. Yes they're going to continually make changes to the game so that it continues to make money. What they're not going to do is drive their whole customer base (99% of which is NOT on the forums) away so that they don't spend money.

GurlBYE

Jamie Madrox wrote:

Boycott is not the answer. If these new tokens sell well, I can see them becoming a permanent thing. I can even see them going as far as swapping an event token for one of these in each event or adding one of these tokens to progression rewards.

But none of that is going to happen if the knee-jerk negative reactions to every positive step keep happening.

there are 2 stars, unless we see a 40 item vault with 15 4 stars, in multiple colors (which is HUGE HUGE issue with the 4 star vaults that have yet to change after WEEKLY feedback, 1 4 star of a random color. at 3000 HP.) I can't see how this is a kneejerk negative response as opposed to people being extremely frustrated that they expressed multitudes of ways, (including other ways that would have cost players resources), that would have been different than another vault, and actually been actively helping people get 3 and 4 stars that they can't currently obtain.

The "preview" is once again them just saying something will happen before a weekend, everyone will vent, by the time it's addressed it will be over.

It is what it is at this point.

We'll see what happens, eventually people will stop typing and express their displeasure in other ways.

I entirely expected money to be something to accelerate it like every other aspect of the game the issue is 2 stars shouldn't be in.

JamieMadrox

GurlBYE wrote:

Jamie Madrox wrote:

Boycott is not the answer. If these new tokens sell well, I can see them becoming a permanent thing. I can even see them going as far as swapping an event token for one of these in each event or adding one of these tokens to progression rewards.

But none of that is going to happen if the knee-jerk negative reactions to every positive step keep happening.

there are 2 stars, unless we see a 40 item vault with 15 4 stars, in multiple colors (which is HUGE HUGE issue with the 4 star vaults that have yet to change after WEEKLY feedback, 1 4 star of a random color. at 3000 HP.) I can't see how this is a kneejerk negative response as opposed to people being extremely frustrated that they expressed multitudes of ways, (including other ways that would have cost players resources), that would have been different than another vault, and actually been actively helping people get 3 and 4 stars that they can't currently obtain.

The "preview" is once again them just saying something will happen before a weekend, everyone will vent, by the time it's addressed it will be over.

It is what it is at this point.

We'll see what happens, eventually people will stop typing and express their displeasure in other ways.

I entirely expected money to be something to accelerate it like every other aspect of the game the issue is 2 stars shouldn't be in.

It's not a vault. It's a regular token store.

GurlBYE

Jamie Madrox wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

Jamie Madrox wrote:

Boycott is not the answer. If these new tokens sell well, I can see them becoming a permanent thing. I can even see them going as far as swapping an event token for one of these in each event or adding one of these tokens to progression rewards.

But none of that is going to happen if the knee-jerk negative reactions to every positive step keep happening.

there are 2 stars, unless we see a 40 item vault with 15 4 stars, in multiple colors (which is HUGE HUGE issue with the 4 star vaults that have yet to change after WEEKLY feedback, 1 4 star of a random color. at 3000 HP.) I can't see how this is a kneejerk negative response as opposed to people being extremely frustrated that they expressed multitudes of ways, (including other ways that would have cost players resources), that would have been different than another vault, and actually been actively helping people get 3 and 4 stars that they can't currently obtain.

The "preview" is once again them just saying something will happen before a weekend, everyone will vent, by the time it's addressed it will be over.

It is what it is at this point.

We'll see what happens, eventually people will stop typing and express their displeasure in other ways.

I entirely expected money to be something to accelerate it like every other aspect of the game the issue is 2 stars shouldn't be in.

It's not a vault. It's a regular token store.

Hm. So that actually sounds worse than I initially thought when I believed it to be vault structure, because the probability of what you want in those increases for everything you get that you don't.

But as said, I guess we'll see what happens. Hopefully it has a higher rate than bonus hero's has of popping then.

Lukoil

Well I won't be boycotting. I simply won't buy them because they are too dilluted. Current normal heroic are ok for me.
But if you need old characters - i don't see any reason too boycott new Heroics. By boycotting you will just notify them that you are not interested in rostering and leveling old characters.

GurlBYE

Lukoil wrote:

Well I won't be boycotting. I simply won't buy them because they are too dilluted. Current normal heroic are ok for me.
But if you need old characters - i don't see any reason too boycott new Heroics. By boycotting you will just notify them that you are not interested in rostering and leveling old characters.

It's poor logic considering "buy these lotto tickets, or you clearly aren't interested in having 75% of the 4 stars".
I don't see how radically testing can change this to be more favorable however

broll

Jamie Madrox wrote:

broll wrote:

Jamie Madrox wrote:

Boycott is not the answer. If these new tokens sell well, I can see them becoming a permanent thing. I can even see them going as far as swapping an event token for one of these in each event or adding one of these tokens to progression rewards.

But none of that is going to happen if the knee-jerk negative reactions to every positive step keep happening.

I guess you and I have a different definition of positive step.

We're being given something new that could potentially become permanent. How that isn't a positive step is beyond me. Yes vaulting sucks, but this is a first step in making it suck less. I expect it's also not the last step either.

Yes Demiurge and D3 want to make money. It's how they keep the lights on, employees paid, servers running, etc. Yes they're going to continually make changes to the game so that it continues to make money. What they're not going to do is drive their whole customer base (99% of which is NOT on the forums) away so that they don't spend money.

If they made a new feature that stole ISO from you and gave you nothing in return but it was a permanent feature, would that be a positive step? Not sure how it being potentially permanent makes it better, if anything for me that makes it worse...

Sorry but I don't see another 60-75% at a 2* token that I could buy to get a chance at the characters they took for us for no good reason as positive. If it was only the 3* & 4* fine, it's not ideal but acceptable. This is yet again another example of RNG on top of RNG, which is one of the major problems with bonus heroes. You want the vaulted characters? Here's a chance, 40-25% chance you get a vaulted character on top of a % chance of 3 vs 4* on top of a % chance of the character you actually want. You might as well have just put the characters in the powerball jackpot...

I don't have a problem with them making money. I financially support the game. I've been VIP since launch and typically spend another $50-$100 a month on top of that. I support a good product. I'm not however going to look kindly to them price gauging and insulting their customer base.

EDIT: Also they recently add those new 4* vaults that are a horrible price, they went through multiple test before settling on something terrible, so the fact that this is a first round doesn't make feel all that good. They have a horrible batting average lately on making good decisions.

MPQ_Daywalker

broll wrote:

Not sure how it being potentially permanent makes it better, if anything for me that makes it worse...

If the tokens were permanent and available as rewards in all events, then I see it as better. If I can earn vintage heroics in PVE and PVP progression rewards, then over time I'm bound to eventually earn some older 3*s and 4*s from them, just like Heroics used to be.

As it is, limited time with just two off-season PVPs giving the tokens once a month, the only way to get a decent return is to spend HP on them (and I've never spent HP on a heroic token; don't plan to start now).

TheZeusBear

Let's hope they come to their senses and adjust it a bit if it's going to become permanent.

Add new progression rewards in every pve that award these tokens. Added to every PvP as well. Not replacing anything.. just added in. At an achievable score.

Increase BH rates on these tokens.

Lower 2* pull rates. Even a 50/40/10 split would be okay.

kyo28

It's an obvious attempt at grabbing more cash. They fixed a problem they created themselves by another half-assed solution aimed at cash grabbing.

Sign me up in the boycott column

broll

_Daywalker_ wrote:

broll wrote:

Not sure how it being potentially permanent makes it better, if anything for me that makes it worse...

If the tokens were permanent and available as rewards in all events, then I see it as better. If I can earn vintage heroics in PVE and PVP progression rewards, then over time I'm bound to eventually earn some older 3*s and 4*s from them, just like Heroics used to be.

As it is, limited time with just two off-season PVPs giving the tokens once a month, the only way to get a decent return is to spend HP on them (and I've never spent HP on a heroic token; don't plan to start now).

As I see it this sounds like a clone of the heroic token with latest in one and classics in another (sounds familar) if they kept both all the time and let people choose which they pulled from, it would be a step forward but would only address the 3* issue and not the 4* issue. If they then changed classic legends to contain the older 4*s then IMO all issues caused by bonus heroes are solved in a reasonable way.

bbigler

Yes, boycott and hope for the best.

Khanwulf

Daredevil217 wrote:

I can't justify spending 100 HP a day on what equates to a 2 or 3-star champ level. I think it's an overall bad buy so I'll be inadvertently boycotting. The fact that THIS is their solution to vaulting is a joke.

This. Literally every time I've purchased even the 100-HP "deal", it's been a 2* or worse. If they want to accomplish anything meaningful it has to either greatly minimize the 2* possibility or remove it--which would mean the token would be inherently rare.

Well: 6 tokens maximum per month looks pretty rare to me.

Purchase? Hell no!

--Khanwulf

Ayasugi-san

Jamie Madrox wrote:

Boycott is not the answer. If these new tokens sell well, I can see them becoming a permanent thing.

I don't want them to be a permanent thing. The big issue is the vaulting of the vast majority of 4 s, and these new tokens do less to alleviate that than bonus heroes.

Brigby

broll wrote:

As I see it this sounds like a clone of the heroic token with latest in one and classics in another (sounds familar) if they kept both all the time and let people choose which they pulled from, it would be a step forward but would only address the 3* issue and not the 4* issue. If they then changed classic legends to contain the older 4*s then IMO all issues caused by bonus heroes are solved in a reasonable way.

We've definitely heard and evaluated that suggestion, but the one issue with adding the older 4*s to the Classic Legends though, is that you now have the same dilution problem as before. Players used to find acquiring any 4* to be a painfully slow process, because there were so many 4*s diluting the pack.

Edit: Sorry for the confusion. I must've accidentally pressed 5 instead of 4. I meant that the dilution of 4* made it hard for players to acquire and max them, especially as the newer ones were being released.

DFiPL

Brigby wrote:

broll wrote:

As I see it this sounds like a clone of the heroic token with latest in one and classics in another (sounds familar) if they kept both all the time and let people choose which they pulled from, it would be a step forward but would only address the 3* issue and not the 4* issue. If they then changed classic legends to contain the older 4*s then IMO all issues caused by bonus heroes are solved in a reasonable way.

We've definitely heard and evaluated that suggestion, but the one issue with adding the older 4*s to the Classic Legends though, is that you now have the same dilution problem as before. Players used to find acquiring Classic 5* to be a painfully slow process, because there were so many 4*s diluting the pack.

This. Is. Not. The. Answer.

Dilution is an issue? Great. Create a new LT store with a curated selection of classic 4's that rotates each season. Or every half season. Or, hey, every 3 days (with the advent of new PvP events). Whatever.

If dilution is an issue, it can absolutely be addressed within the framework of a new token that targets, specifically, the 4* library.

A new Heroic token that's nearly 70% 2* does absolutely SQUAT to address either the issue with vaulting, or the dilution that vaulting was meant to rectify.

It's like a paint job on a car whose transmission is about to go. Looks purty, but doesn't address the underlying problem. Like, at all.