Token purchases - the new, the bad, and the ugly [LR Nerf]

Unknown

Given how difficult it can be to place in an LR, I felt the rewards given several months ago were completely fine (as in, 3* Villains that you knew what you were aiming for). They're highly competitive and fast paced. I've only tried to place in Heroic LRs a few times, and out of those gotten one token I could use out of six or seven, so I haven't bothered since. With the recent change, there's even less incentive for me to try. Punch seed teams, put in tank team, go back to Xcom.

NorthernPolarity

klingsor wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

klingsor wrote:

This is all about increasing their ARPDAU (Average Revenue Per Daily Active User) All gameplay changes are focused with keeping the ARPDAU at $1 or higher. This is the gold standard for F2P games. The only way you can make a change is by voting with your wallet. The token packs are a bad deal, but they get the majority of their revenue from them (rosters are second.) So it's naturally for them to A) tinker with the odds of rewards of the tokens and b) to release characters as fast as they can test them. Nerfing Mags will not increase their ARPDAU, but releasing Lazy Daken might. So people. don't buy token packs, don't buy roster slots past 40, and if an event has **** rewards, don't participate in it. When they see a 20% drop in participation, they will take notice of that more than some random dude pretending to quit.

The majority of people that are their main source of income do not go on this forum. How many people on this forum have actually bought a 10x token pack? It's common knowledge that it's terrible value if you already own the character, and almost everyone that is committed enough to go on the forum will have already earned covers for the character through the events. These recent changes to the token packs are targeted at the general population who actually buy cover packs, and optimizing for them makes perfect sense when trying to increase ARPDAU. It's unfortunate that the LR tokens are a victim of these recent changes as that will actually affect forum people trying to transition into 2->3, but not spending hp on the 10x packs isn't do anything because so few people here bought them in the first place. I don't believe that we can actually affect what the devs do from a macro standpoint: we consist of such a small minority of the playerbase that any changes that the devs will enact to their pricing scheme can only be brought upon by the silent majority.

That's probably true, but the people that earn the majority of these tokens playing are here on this forum. I don't know of many forum-less alliances that are competing for top rewards. Also, I think they do care about what the vocal majority things. If we don't like it, the silent majority probably doesn't like it either, even if they can't communicate it verbally. So while they might not listen to my pleas to sabotage an event, they might simply stop playing. If this results in them spending more money, then that's that. I expect the devs to do what they can to make their money, and I can't blame them for it. I just don't like changes that affect gameplay. This one in particular doesn't affect me. I have all the covers for all the characters featured in the heroic LR. I still think people need to behave in a manner consistent with their beliefs. If the devs introduce a **** feature, don't use it!

When you think about why the devs enacted the LR changes, I don't see it as "The top 25 players are getting too many 3* covers, we need to reduce the rate of which they're acquiring them", I see "People buying heroic token packs are getting too many 3* covers, we need to reduce the rate at which they're getting those". I think the change was targeted at the people who actually buy the packs, which again, probably aren't forumgoers that have the roster/skills to place in the LRs. I'm just saying that the bottom line is that for changes like this, they are going to go 100% off of their metrics. If the data says that sales went down, they're going to change it back. If it doesn't, then they'll keep it as is. Whatever we do or say has little consequence when dealing with optimizations of ARPDAU: it's going to be on the silent majority to vote with their wallet. By all means though, don't partake in activities if it violates your beliefs. I just question whether refraining from doing things to improve your roster such buying roster slots (which doesn't affect ARPDAU since most of their income doesn't come from roster slots as they've said) for the sake of protest is worth placing a handicap on yourself for a cause that is ultimately futile. Not buying random 10x packs will help the cause though, so go do that if you're a player that used to randomly buy packs for fun! If you're a player that desperately needs the character for a required PvE node or something though, you're better off buying the pack to improve your roster.

Unknown

one change i would advocate for thought would be to add one heroic token to the top 25 reward so that people dont just try to sit in the 26-50 all day because its more advantageous to do so

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

The LR tokens are way too good of a deal. You usually have to pay 3800 for a 10 pack for a guaranteed 3* that usually isn't even very good. Courageous you have 4 out of 6 3* that are high end. Villianous used to contain the two most powerful characters in the game, and even now The Hood and Magneto are well worth it and the other 3 are at least serviceable.

I realize people don't ever think dev simply messed something up when something is too good of a deal for them but LRs have been way too generous for far too long. I'm surprised we don't have villian LRs reward being villianous tokens, which should have happened the moment hero LRs went in.

You sort of made sense when you were just commenting on token value, but I'm pretty tinykitty sure that with the LRs being entirely unbracketed makes them far, far, FAR less "generous" prize-wise than standard PvPs.

OnesOwnGrief

Given the trend, I guess ability upgrades may get a change soon. No more guaranteed drops so HP sales should move towards ability upgrades of covers we do have.

Spoit

KaioShinDE wrote:

Phantron wrote:

I really don't understand why people ever thought LR was supposed to be a source of major character advancement.

Because THEY WERE. Really great hindsight now calling them a mistake all along. Are you this guy by chance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esXJN_OTkmU

Have you....met him? He's all about how everything is so trivial, and how there shouldn't be any rewards at all. Because if everyone is special, no one is.

Unknown

There are two separate, unrelated issues with LRs:

1. The guys who do well in them generally already has the covers. This creates no real value to the community. That is, from D3's point of view the guy with the maxed Magneto winning Magneto again is a total waste of resources. You're pretty sure that guy isn't going to spend more money because he sold his 3 Magneto covers for 1500 iso8 or stashed one just in case, and you obviously forfeit any chance of some lucky guy who didn't have Magneto get sucked into the game more from his win.

2. The tokens themselves are too good of a deal compared to anything else sold. The standard 10 hero pack is 2800 for guaranteed 1 3* who can be literally anybody. Compared to this, the villianous/courageous token for 1100 are from a much smaller selection of decent heroes and cost less. 4 out of 6 heroes in courageous tokens are playable in top tier, and 1 of them occupies the broken tier (Spiderman). 2 out of 5 heroes in villianous token are playable in top tier, and 1 of them is arguably the strongest hero in the game (Magneto). The more specific 10 hero packs cost 3800, and generally feature a character that is not more powerful than say, The Hood or The Punisher. The notable exception would be the lazy Thor/Captains and all but one of those are of the 'triple chance' variety.

I suspect the second issue is actually more important than the first, since we do know tokens are the major source of HP expenditure. Though nerfing the value of tokens obviously reduces the incentive for someone with a maxed out villian/hero to participate.

mags1587

I think there's a 3rd issue: Due to the change in the tokens and the lack of change in the LR reward placement structure, there's very little incentive to achieve the top ranks in LRs anymore. Two Heroic tokens are nearly as good as 2 Courageous tokens and definitely better than 1 Courageous token. So if the Courageous tokens stay as-is, I think the LR reward structure needs to be tweaked.

Bacon Pants

This is a pretty awful change, plain and simple. With the exception of the HP entry tourney, the LR's are the best way to gain 3 star covers. The LR's are usually very competitive so the 3 star rewards are excellent compensation. The change made to the reward structure significantly devalues the LR's.

I've always felt a sense of accomplishment when I've placed highly in a LR. Now I don't see much of a reason to compete in them...other to farm ISO and tank. This game is somewhat reward driven, and these rewards are not worth the effort.

Phaserhawk

If this is the way it is fine, but then they need to change the prize pool. Why would I spend all that time and resources into 3 packs that don't guarentee me anything.

NighteyesGrisu

what's strange is that the event rewards still show three stars on the image.....

Unknown

I see that they significantly lowered the courageous token cost in HP, which is good, considering the substantial decrease in value, but why not increase the prizes for the LR itself? Winning an unbracketed lightning round and coming away with three 2* covers is incredibly lame.

Clintman

I think they make a mistake by not making 3* easier to come by, I would expect people would spend money on the last few covers of a Punisher of they could get him higher than 1/3/2 from their last 3 months of playing the game with their 1 and 2* roster. Instead its just another 3* cover that they can never get enough of to make useful. I don't think the direction is a good one, I was not already maxed on all of my covers I would be very discouraged by how hard it is to get new covers.

Spoit

But yeah phantron, that's what everyone was saying. The problem is that the 2800 packs are poorly priced, not that the 1100 for a 3* is under-priced. The point was that you save a piddling 150 HP from not upgrading against the chance of it being one of what, 20 covers?

mischiefmaker

Phantron wrote:

4 out of 6 heroes in courageous tokens are playable in top tier, and 1 of them occupies the broken tier (Spiderman). 2 out of 5 heroes in villianous token are playable in top tier, and 1 of them is arguably the strongest hero in the game (Magneto).

Not to derail the thread, but which of the 6 heroes do you consider not playable?

Unknown

mischiefmaker wrote:

Phantron wrote:

4 out of 6 heroes in courageous tokens are playable in top tier, and 1 of them occupies the broken tier (Spiderman). 2 out of 5 heroes in villianous token are playable in top tier, and 1 of them is arguably the strongest hero in the game (Magneto).

Not to derail the thread, but which of the 6 heroes do you consider not playable?

Iron Man and Black Widow

Unknown

locked wrote:

^ My 400ish pts were only good enough for top 50 and 2 heroics, not that I am complaining. I think tops had >500 points, as usual. Some of them even shielded for these tokens, god. Like Davecazz.

even though the tokens are nerfed, it's still the best way to get 3*s that aren't featured. I didn't fully realize, but I think I will go for it again once I get some work done.

Unknown

When I bought the Courageous 10-pack I got...

Yellow IronMan 40
Yellow Invisible Woman
Blue Spider-Man Classic
Blue Doctor Doom
Red Psylock
Red BWGS
Two Blue Original Black Widow
One 2* Wolverine
One Aries

I'm happy with what 20 bucks got me. I needed that Blue Spidey. However I sold the IronMan and Doom.

NorthernPolarity

Kuchiri wrote:

When I bought the Courageous 10-pack I got...

Yellow IronMan 40
Yellow Invisible Woman
Blue Spider-Man Classic
Blue Doctor Doom
Red Psylock
Red BWGS
Two Blue Original Black Widow
One 2* Wolverine
One Aries

I'm happy with what 20 bucks got me. I needed that Blue Spidey. However I sold the IronMan and Doom.

Grats on the pulls! 6/10 3*s is definitely abnormal, and extremely lucky. Glad to see that it worked out for you.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

There are two separate, unrelated issues with LRs:

1. The guys who do well in them generally already has the covers. This creates no real value to the community. That is, from D3's point of view the guy with the maxed Magneto winning Magneto again is a total waste of resources. You're pretty sure that guy isn't going to spend more money because he sold his 3 Magneto covers for 1500 iso8 or stashed one just in case, and you obviously forfeit any chance of some lucky guy who didn't have Magneto get sucked into the game more from his win.

2. The tokens themselves are too good of a deal compared to anything else sold. The standard 10 hero pack is 2800 for guaranteed 1 3* who can be literally anybody. Compared to this, the villianous/courageous token for 1100 are from a much smaller selection of decent heroes and cost less. 4 out of 6 heroes in courageous tokens are playable in top tier, and 1 of them occupies the broken tier (Spiderman). 2 out of 5 heroes in villianous token are playable in top tier, and 1 of them is arguably the strongest hero in the game (Magneto). The more specific 10 hero packs cost 3800, and generally feature a character that is not more powerful than say, The Hood or The Punisher. The notable exception would be the lazy Thor/Captains and all but one of those are of the 'triple chance' variety.

I suspect the second issue is actually more important than the first, since we do know tokens are the major source of HP expenditure. Though nerfing the value of tokens obviously reduces the incentive for someone with a maxed out villian/hero to participate.

#1 really isn't true. Many people, including myself, have gotten numerous covers that they needed from lightning rounds. I only have 3 characters over 65, two of them are Thors, and I've managed top 8 and top 25 in villain lightning rounds.