New Year - New 4* Captain Marvel!

124

Comments

  • Tatercat
    Tatercat Posts: 930 Critical Contributor
    firethorne wrote:

    But, even though her movies are coming, she hasn't actually been in one yet. So, a third variant of her still makes little sense in the context of MCU fans….

    Yeah, but they DO have plans for her, and they want to drum up her awareness in support of that eventual movie, to make sure it’s a success. It’s a long term marketing reason (didn’t say it was a good game reason..icon_e_smile.gif)
    firethorne wrote:

    … especially since we have no Red Skull, Jessica Jones, Agent Coulson, etc, that have been in movies, Netflix, or TV.

    Even if they still had movie plans for Red Skull, I doubt we’d see “Super Nazi” in the games anytime soon (Some bean counter saying that would limit them in European markets or whatever.) But yeah, I’m surprised Coulson isn’t in the game, but the movies seem to ignore the television shows at this point, and the movies seem to set their overall direction. I’m amazed we’ve gotten this many Inhumans, frankly. (Bring on 5* Lockjaw, baby!)
  • Tatercat
    Tatercat Posts: 930 Critical Contributor
    Pope Belligerent wrote:
    Carol is one of my favorite Marvel characters, and has been since the 80s when she was Binary and punching the universe with the Starjammers.

    Oh, my 80's nostalgia would drop money for a 5* Binary.
  • Pope Belligerent
    Pope Belligerent Posts: 94 Match Maker
    4* Captain Marvel is the hero we need.
    5* Binary is the hero we deserve.
  • ZeiramMR
    ZeiramMR Posts: 1,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    aesthetocyst wrote:
    Tatercat wrote:
    .... Even if they still had movie plans for Red Skull, I doubt we’d see “Super Nazi” in the games anytime soon (Some bean counter saying that would limit them in European markets or whatever.)....

    Oh, please, Skull was rebranded as belonging to Hydra decades ago. The Red Skull is in Avengers: Alliance titles, and is in Lego Marvel titles, which are (ostensibly, very very ostensibly icon_lol.gif ) aimed at kids.

    Bring on 5* Red Skull and a slew of Hydra goons.

    ... just as soon as 5* Crapcap gets a suitable buff. He's in no shape to tackle any of his big bads any time soon.
    I'm okay with Red Skull being added if and only if it is a non-playable villain like Gorgon or a boss. Having events with him as an essential character is an added wrinkle beyond the Nazi/Hydra thing that goes beyond the pale for me.
  • Jam_Adams
    Jam_Adams Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
    anyone slandering gambit is a gd heathen

    smileyface
  • STOPTHIS
    STOPTHIS Posts: 781 Critical Contributor
    Mr_Sinister wrote:

    His point about characters needing to be super popular and about selling comics just doesn't jive with many of the new released characters. To say a character like Mar-Vell isn't popular enough and wouldn't move books for marvel and that's why he's not in the game is not the case as there are plenty of characters in game that are not overly popular and don't sell well.

    I got the point and wasn't disagreeing. Dragon_Nexus was saying Carol was popular and selling comics, which is why we're getting her and not Mar-vell. You pointed out a bunch of maybe known, but not hugely popular characters with poor selling books that we still have the game. And I was pointing out that Carol isn't really popular or selling comics either. The only reason we're getting her and not someone like Mar-Vell is because they already committed to a movie with her years down the line. Popularly and sales got nothing to do with it.
  • JFisch
    JFisch Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
    I find it somewhat... ironic? humorous? fitting? that we're complaining about endless variants in a game that licenses characters from a company that churns out endless variants. Look at Marvel, there's two of everything right now.

    Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Man.
    Mighty Thor, Unworthy Thor.
    Indestructible Iron Man, Infamous Iron Man.

    Shoot, this entire development plan from Marvel is just a variant of their plans from the late '90s anyway. (Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider, Iron Man/War Machine, Captain America/US Agent, Thor/Thunderstryke)

    We'll get some new characters soon. Plus a bunch more retreads. Can't drop 2-3 characters a month for three years and not do a ton of variants.

    I'm way more concerned about the pattern of every single patch being full of bugs and broken powers.
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    STOPTHIS wrote:
    Smart money says it's only still going because she's going to have a movie about her and I'd bet that upcoming movie is the only reason people know who she is anyways, because she was (and largely still is) a mildly popular character at best. The only thing she did of note was have Rogue steal her powers. At least until Civil War 2. So now she's also starred in the worst event Marvel has ever done.

    No, smart money says they keep her going because if they don't have a Captain Marvel, the rights to the name will be lost to them and DC can then call Shazam by the name of Captain Marvel on their books.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    I actually thought the Iron Man reference was a joke, and a tongue-in-cheek reference to the forum knee-jerk reaction to variants (in an interview about a variant, no less). Maybe I'm giving them more credit than I should. I'm a dreamer, I guess.
  • Pope Belligerent
    Pope Belligerent Posts: 94 Match Maker
    STOPTHIS wrote:
    And I was pointing out that Carol isn't really popular or selling comics either. The only reason we're getting her and not someone like Mar-Vell is because they already committed to a movie with her years down the line. Popularly and sales got nothing to do with it.

    But that's not correct. See my post above. Carol IS popular, and IS selling books. Her solo books have been consistent strong sellers with women since the DeConnick era and have been improving in sales steadily since. Civil War 2 (which is FAR from being Marvel's worst event - clearly you never read AXIS) was one of their highest-grossing crossovers, and they are positioning Carol to occupy the place that Captain America once held as the center of the Avengers end of the Marvel Universe. This likely has little to do with the upcoming movie and everything to do with Marvel's current plan for her in the comics. And as such, Mar-vell, who has been dead for more than 30 years and was never really all that popular to begin with, is unlikely to be the character they chose.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dragon_Nexus wrote:
    STOPTHIS wrote:
    Smart money says it's only still going because she's going to have a movie about her and I'd bet that upcoming movie is the only reason people know who she is anyways, because she was (and largely still is) a mildly popular character at best. The only thing she did of note was have Rogue steal her powers. At least until Civil War 2. So now she's also starred in the worst event Marvel has ever done.

    No, smart money says they keep her going because if they don't have a Captain Marvel, the rights to the name will be lost to them and DC can then call Shazam by the name of Captain Marvel on their books.
    This is simply not true. Marvel trademarked the name 'Captain Marvel' (in the 60s) after Fawcett (the original publisher of the Shazam/Captain Marvel in the 50s) never did. When DC bought the defunct Fawcett characters in the 70s, they couldn't call him Captain Marvel and re-branded him as 'Shazam'. DC has no interest in turning Shazam back into Captain Marvel after 50+ years, and Marvel is under no obligation to publish a Captain Marvel book in order to maintain the rights.
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    Tatercat wrote:
    **Except Gambit. Because Gambit is always terrible. Always. icon_e_wink.gif

    FIGHT ME
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    aesthetocyst wrote:
    icon_lol.gif ... two years ago way back when mutants still existed as far as Marvel games were concerned ...

    Contest of Champions is still adding mutants (or were in 2016 anyways), so that's not really an accurate statement.
  • STOPTHIS
    STOPTHIS Posts: 781 Critical Contributor
    edited January 2017
    Pope Belligerent wrote:
    STOPTHIS wrote:
    And I was pointing out that Carol isn't really popular or selling comics either. The only reason we're getting her and not someone like Mar-Vell is because they already committed to a movie with her years down the line. Popularly and sales got nothing to do with it.

    But that's not correct. See my post above. Carol IS popular, and IS selling books. Her solo books have been consistent strong sellers with women since the DeConnick era and have been improving in sales steadily since.
    Except no.
    KSD launch
42 	Captain Marvel 	1 	$2.99 	Marvel 	41,582
84 	Captain Marvel 	2 	$2.99 	Marvel 	28,434
90 	Captain Marvel 	4 	$2.99 	Marvel 	24,799
91 	Captain Marvel 	5 	$2.99 	Marvel 	28,619
109 	Captain Marvel 	6 	$2.99 	Marvel 	23,103
104 	Captain Marvel 	7 	$2.99 	Marvel 	21,744
103 	Captain Marvel 	8 	$2.99 	Marvel 	19,970
103 	Captain Marvel 	9 	$2.99 	Marvel 	19,151
110 	Captain Marvel 	10 	$2.99 	Marvel 	18,359
120 	Captain Marvel 	11 	$2.99 	Marvel 	17,743
112 	Captain Marvel 	12 	$2.99 	Marvel 	18,344 (crossover with Avengers Assemble)
113 	Captain Marvel 	13 	$2.99 	Marvel 	19,673 (crossover with Avengers Assemble)
135 	Captain Marvel 	14 	$2.99 	Marvel 	19,320 (crossover with Avengers Assemble)
88 	Captain Marvel 	15 	$2.99 	Marvel 	23,511 (Infinity tie in)
134 	Captain Marvel 	16 	$2.99 	Marvel 	22,845 (Infinity tie in)
120 	Captain Marvel 	17 	$3.99 	Marvel 	18,173 
KSD Relaunch
32 	Captain Marvel 	1 	$3.99 	Marvel 	44,248
79 	Captain Marvel 	2 	$3.99 	Marvel 	28,008
89 	Captain Marvel 	3 	$3.99 	Marvel 	26,057
95 	Captain Marvel 	4 	$3.99 	Marvel 	24,062
126 	Captain Marvel 	5 	$3.99 	Marvel 	23,666
111 	Captain Marvel 	6 	$3.99 	Marvel 	21,221
125 	Captain Marvel 	7 	$3.99 	Marvel 	21,022
141 	Captain Marvel 	8 	$3.99 	Marvel 	20,692
113 	Captain Marvel 	9 	$3.99 	Marvel 	19,885
130 	Captain Marvel 	10 	$4.99 	Marvel 	19,973
113 	Captain Marvel 	11 	$3.99 	Marvel 	19,527
112 	Captain Marvel 	12 	$3.99 	Marvel 	19,199
107 	Captain Marvel 	13 	$3.99 	Marvel 	21,915 (slight uptick) 
100 	Captain Marvel 	14 	$3.99 	Marvel 	30,560 (Black Vortex tie in)
124 	Captain Marvel 	15 	$3.99 	Marvel 	19,740
Secret Wars tie in
44 	Captain Marvel and Carol Corps 	1 	$3.99 	Marvel 	47,302
83 	Captain Marvel And Carol Corps 	2 	$3.99 	Marvel 	28,741
94 	Captain Marvel And Carol Corps 	3 	$3.99 	Marvel 	24,295
100 	Captain Marvel And Carol Corps 	4 	$3.99 	Marvel 	22,106
Relaunch (no more KSD)
22 	Captain Marvel 	1 	$3.99 	Marvel 	52,972
64 	Captain Marvel 	2 	$3.99 	Marvel 	28,962
69 	Captain Marvel 	3 	$3.99 	Marvel 	28,469
77 	Captain Marvel 	4 	$3.99 	Marvel 	25,156
74 	Captain Marvel 	5 	$3.99 	Marvel 	23,812
87 	Captain Marvel 	6 	$3.99 	Marvel 	28,213 (CW2 tie in)
96 	Captain Marvel 	7 	$3.99 	Marvel 	23,895 (CW2 tie in)
114 	Captain Marvel 	8 	$3.99 	Marvel 	23,024 (CW2 tie in)
99 	Captain Marvel 	9 	$3.99 	Marvel 	24,753 (CW2 tie in)
132 	Captain Marvel 	10 	$4.99 	Marvel 	19,893 (CW2 tie in)

    These are not good numbers. They're rather bad even for current Marvel. They're especially bad for a premier character. And they're certainly not improving (at least not without the an event to tie in to). It's why her title is being relaunched again.
    Pope Belligerent wrote:
    Civil War 2 (which is FAR from being Marvel's worst event - clearly you never read AXIS) was one of their highest-grossing crossovers, and they are positioning Carol to occupy the place that Captain America once held as the center of the Avengers end of the Marvel Universe.

    AXIS is trash, but it's trash that is easily ignored. CW2 is a dumpster fire and will have lasting effects on the MU. I'm not sure how anyone could have read CW2 and thought Marvel was making her the moral center of the MU. She was wrong every step of the way and got people killed or put in comas.

    Only thing you got correct is that Gambit sucks. icon_e_wink.gif
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dormammu wrote:
    Dragon_Nexus wrote:
    STOPTHIS wrote:
    Smart money says it's only still going because she's going to have a movie about her and I'd bet that upcoming movie is the only reason people know who she is anyways, because she was (and largely still is) a mildly popular character at best. The only thing she did of note was have Rogue steal her powers. At least until Civil War 2. So now she's also starred in the worst event Marvel has ever done.

    No, smart money says they keep her going because if they don't have a Captain Marvel, the rights to the name will be lost to them and DC can then call Shazam by the name of Captain Marvel on their books.
    This is simply not true. Marvel trademarked the name 'Captain Marvel' (in the 60s) after Fawcett (the original publisher of the Shazam/Captain Marvel in the 50s) never did. When DC bought the defunct Fawcett characters in the 70s, they couldn't call him Captain Marvel and re-branded him as 'Shazam'. DC has no interest in turning Shazam back into Captain Marvel after 50+ years, and Marvel is under no obligation to publish a Captain Marvel book in order to maintain the rights.

    If you do not maintain use of a copyright you own, you're very likely to lose it. Failing that the term can become generic if you don't protect it.

    For example, you can make a drink and call it a cola, but you cannot call it Coke, or Coca Cola because those names are protected under copyright law. However, anyone can write a Sherlock Holmes story because the character is in the public domain. If Marvel fails to make a book about a Captain Marvel character for X amount of years (I'm not sure on the time frame, but it's quite lengthy. Something like 25 years, I think) the character name reverts back to the original rights holders. And I imagine if such right holders do not exist, it becomes freely available for anyone.

    Shazam has been known as Captain Marvel for some time, but they cannot brand him as such on the title of the books. Instead they called the books Shazam to avoid the legal issues.
  • STOPTHIS
    STOPTHIS Posts: 781 Critical Contributor
    Dragon_Nexus wrote:
    STOPTHIS wrote:
    Smart money says it's only still going because she's going to have a movie about her and I'd bet that upcoming movie is the only reason people know who she is anyways, because she was (and largely still is) a mildly popular character at best. The only thing she did of note was have Rogue steal her powers. At least until Civil War 2. So now she's also starred in the worst event Marvel has ever done.

    No, smart money says they keep her going because if they don't have a Captain Marvel, the rights to the name will be lost to them and DC can then call Shazam by the name of Captain Marvel on their books.

    I'm talking about Carol, not the title "Captain Marvel". They could give it to anyone and still keep the copyright.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    aesthetocyst wrote:
    Pope Belligerent wrote:

    Also, correct: Gambit is always terrible.

    Yep, you can always tell '90s kids by their love of gambit. Raised on Liefeld and a certain terribly dated cartoon they were icon_lol.gif

    I re-watched the cartoon recently and I was surprised that it (mostly) held up pretty well. Maybe that's just the nostalgia goggles though...
  • Pope Belligerent
    Pope Belligerent Posts: 94 Match Maker
    STOPTHIS wrote:
    These are not good numbers. They're rather bad even for current Marvel. They're especially bad for a premier character. And they're certainly not improving (at least not without the an event to tie in to). It's why her title is being relaunched again.

    I was wrong about the numbers improving. But they're not especially bad sales. If you look at it month to month, Captain Marvel is consistently in the top 25% of comics sold, frequently out-performing a large chunk of the Marvel stable including most of the Spider-Man titles and currently hugely popular characters like Star-Lord (http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016.html). Her title is being relaunched because a) it's post-Civil War and it's been a year since the last relaunch, so everything's getting relaunched (the whole X-Men line are in the midst of their enormous relaunch too) and b) like I said, they're repositioning Carol to be the moral center of the MU.
    STOPTHIS wrote:
    I'm not sure how anyone could have read CW2 and thought Marvel was making her the moral center of the MU. She was wrong every step of the way and got people killed or put in comas.

    I'm not saying she's the moral COMPASS of the MU, she's the moral CENTER. She has been positioned by Marvel to be the one making the tough moral decisions and be the heart of the Avengers side of the MU the way Captain America did before this whole (clearly temporary) HYDRA thing came up. If you look at the relaunch of her series, it's entirely about her coming to grips with the decisions she made and the effects they had on people while being lauded as "Earth's Mightiest Hero" by the public. It's a new moral center, and it's a much, much grayer moral center. In issue 0 of the new book she spends the entire time talking to her Alpha Flight-mandated psychiatrist about her past and how she deals with the tough decisions.

    Add to that making her a key member of the Avengers and the leader of the Ultimates and with Tony Stark's not-really-death and Steve Rogers having been a sleeper agent for HYDRA, Carol is positioned as the center of the MU. And thus, she gets all the marketing right now.
    STOPTHIS wrote:
    Only thing you got correct is that Gambit sucks. icon_e_wink.gif

    We may disagree, but we are clearly people of impeccable taste.
  • Pope Belligerent
    Pope Belligerent Posts: 94 Match Maker
    I will also add this: I enjoyed Civil War 2, but I felt like it was a prolonged character assassination of Carol Danvers. You are right: she made the wrong choices the entire time.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    They are still mutants whether you think the game is for adults or whether you happen to think they need to be in MPQ.

    I will concede that it is possible that other games had acquired the rights to mutant characters prior to this supposed 'ban' and didn't get around to releasing them until after.

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