Is Chandra a joke?

Ohboy

bken1234 wrote:

Ohboy wrote:

Lol you're banning players because you disagree with their purchase choices?

Dollars make the world go round.

At some point in a prank, "just a prank bro" no longer serves as a blanket excuse for bad behavior.

Similarly, the point where you make an actual serious reply to justify a previous statement is where you can't actually backtrack and call the original statement a sarcastic one.

bk1234

Ohboy wrote:

bken1234 wrote:

Ohboy wrote:

Lol you're banning players because you disagree with their purchase choices?

Dollars make the world go round.

At some point in a prank, "just a prank bro" no longer serves as a blanket excuse for bad behavior.

Similarly, the point where you make an actual serious reply to justify a previous statement is where you can't actually backtrack and call the original statement a sarcastic one.

Except that you should know by now that 98% of what I say is in some form sarcastic. Aren't we good friends like that, Ohboy?

Maybe 99%

Maybe 99.5% -- Kaladesh has definitely upped my game.

Msaytar

Ohboy : there's not much use in arguing against these two since you won't change their opinion regardless of how much effort and knowledgable arguments you give.

They've decided they are right and will team up on you to discourage any actual discussion.

Feyda

I personally stopped using Saheeli. Her abilities are overcosted now so that they fit the new "them". 9 loyalty for a 4/4 compared to say Kiora who for a few more points can whip out say.... an Ulrich... I loved her old set up, cheap thopters were the main reason to play her plus my strongest cards were in Red. Now I think about using her and its just... meh...

madwren

I stopped using Saheeli after she was ruined, though I did finally find the stomach to play her again in the last week or so. She had some success in QB, and I used her in Holiday Showdown to test a red hulk build which performed admirably.

I do not plan to play her in PVP, though, as planeswalkers with niche abilities or dependencies don't fare as well as those with generally applicable ones.

buscemi

Msaytar wrote:

Ohboy : there's not much use in arguing against these two since you won't change their opinion regardless of how much effort and knowledgable arguments you give.

They've decided they are right and will team up on you to discourage any actual discussion.

Sorry, I must of missed the knowledgable argument that Ohboy posted in this thread.

Please quote it so we can pick up discussion from there.

madwren

Msaytar wrote:

Ohboy : there's not much use in arguing against these two since you won't change their opinion regardless of how much effort and knowledgable arguments you give.

They've decided they are right and will team up on you to discourage any actual discussion.

This is odd. Multiple people have posted stating their dislike of Chandra, and provided valid reasons for their dislike--ranging from the lack of interesting abilities, the lack of perceived longevity in her usage, and the dev statements alluding to how we'll have to buy her to participate in events, like Dovin Baan.

If you have something to say, it would be excellent for you to contribute something to the discussion aside from saying that other people are discouraging it.

MrStem0

Chandra the Second:

Health: 99, (I know it's only 1 digit but anything under 100 really just doesn't stack up now given the explosive damage getting thrown around of single cascades now)

Colour: Red, (Meh, Solo red is weak given the currently available options with access to Red)

Mana : +9 Overall, (This is actually pretty good to be fair, however we know another Red PW who we lean to for mana gains, and then one, perhaps two dual walkers with access to red with better mana gains)

First Ability: Destroy 4 gems and energise 4. At a cost of 9. (So wait, you have taken Koths first Ability, nerfed it, as not only do you hit significantly less gems, you may also hit red ones, and then to rub salt in the wound you increase its cost 50%) WOW

Second Ability: Remove 2 Energised Gems, Deal 15 Damage to Target Creature. (So here you have taken Obs second ability, nerfed it, as not only have you added the prerequisite of 2 energised gems on the board, you have also added a cap on the damage, and then again rubbing salt in the wounds upped it's cost from 9 to 15) WOW

Third Ability: Create a support "when you cast a card, remove one energised gem and deal 8 damage to the opponent" (So you have taken Obs ultimate, increased its cost from 18 to 24, now made it so not only do you have to draw the card, you also have to have energy on the board, earn enough mana to cast it and then to rub salt in the wound it only works on your own actions) WOW

So we have a planeswalker with worse abilities than other pre existing abilities that have been tied into a specific set of cards, Giving them limited value.

Had you ever considered designing these Planeswalkers that are tied into sets in a way that makes them stronger than generic PWs when played with their sets? Stuff like just adding the energy generation on without it even being considered requiring a cost, so kind of like having Koths 1st Ability, plus 4 energy generation for the same cost of 6.

As it currently stands you are seriously overcharging for the generation of energy which then puts the new planeswalker at a disadvantage to all the others. You guysbhad claimed to have learned your lesson from overcharging for set specifics like Awaken, Ingest, Process. Then just roll out the same mistakes again.

Her second should either be a complete kill or atleast an obscene amount of damage, like 30, OR should have some other advantage such as being dealt to the first creature giving it additional advantage in situations such as vs Hexproof, because again as it stands there are just several better options available as a secondary Ability.

Her third should be based on overload, given that is a key factor in the set, it is more expensive than Obs ultimate and meh harder to churn out. For the extra cost it should be something along the lines of when either player Overloads deal 5 damage. This would then lend itself well to her first ability by energising the board and then having possible overloads off cascades.

In my opinion something like that would make for an interesting planeswalker, who would be tied to that set of cards and would actually see people play her.

Set specific planeswalkers should be more powerful than a normal PW if they take advantage of their set specific cards, which currently no one is interested in apart from for objectives. This may seem unfair but the setup time required to get the synergy going is far harder than a white PW dumping a Deploy or Ob just keeping the board clear. If you are able to setup all the pieces of the puzzle the rewards should be significant. I mean, surviving with this PW up to 24 Loyalty will be a challenge in itself!

madwren

MrStem0 wrote:

words

I like your ideas. Well done.

I keep thinking, "Why would we play with this planeswalker considering our other red options?"

..then I realized that's exactly why they're probably going to require her to be bought to participate in an event.

MrStem0

If that's how things go it will be upsetting, and possibly the end of this game for me. If the Devs can't be bothered to create interesting PWs and give us a reason to want them and instead just create restrictions to events to force us into using them then I will have to consider how much time, effort and money I put into this game.

Lightcell

span_argoman wrote:

Lightcell wrote:

Steeme wrote:

Sadly, I'm going to have to agree. This set specific nonsense is wearing thin. Once you realize that you need specific key cards from a single set in order to take full advantage of the planeswalker, you just end up shelving them.

I tried Dovin Baan. I started using cards that built around energize. As I continued to play, I would end up finding some weakness then replacing a card with something more useful. In the end, I just end up getting rid of energize cards and focusing on building a Blue/White deck.

I mean, I would love to build around their "specialties", but unless it can survive a top tier Kiora, Sorin, Koth, etc. deck it just becomes plain ****. And I would never bring something unreliable to an event.

I don't have Dovin but I think the issue is, assuming all overload effects work the same, is that overload 1 only triggers once when energized gems are matched. Otherwise he would be top tier since you would be able to energize the whole field in a turn or two.

Overload triggers once per matching instance. So if you make a match with an Energized gem, Overload 1 will trigger once. If that match cascades into another match with an Energized gem, Overload 1 will trigger a second time. If that cascade chains into another cascade with an Energized gem matched, Overload 1 will trigger once again. So you do have a chance to trigger Overload multiple times a turn, and gem destruction will also help with that.

But I do also agree that at the moment the Energize/Overload cards don't do enough on their own such that you need to summon out too many cards before you can start reaping the benefits which isn't all that great anyway. Although once people draw into more Kaladesh cards, we might start coming across some interesting interactions.

Well there are some pretty cool stuff so far that I have seen. Dovin can be pretty good if you can get the cascade going though there is an uncommon card that I think is essential for his deck, Empyreal Voyager, which could energize the whole field making a cascade effect rather useful.

Lightcell

MrStem0 wrote:

If that's how things go it will be upsetting, and possibly the end of this game for me. If the Devs can't be bothered to create interesting PWs and give us a reason to want them and instead just create restrictions to events to force us into using them then I will have to consider how much time, effort and money I put into this game.

I think it is a hard thing to do. It is a business and they need to find ways to sell product. Also they seem constrained to using the new sets Wizards come out with. Also the game doesn't have a legality rotation of sets. I am sure things would be different if we couldn't play cards or planeswalkers from Origins and in April BFZ and Oathwatch. Doing so would make the Kaladesh cards, planeswalkers, and mechanics more viable. Things would be a lot different if there was a standard rotation which they can't really do unless they create events with card limitations or, as they have been doing, give bonuses for using cards from the newest set.

Theros

Hope they redisign her like they did sorin

blacklotus

Lightcell wrote:

span_argoman wrote:

Lightcell wrote:

Steeme wrote:

Sadly, I'm going to have to agree. This set specific nonsense is wearing thin. Once you realize that you need specific key cards from a single set in order to take full advantage of the planeswalker, you just end up shelving them.

I tried Dovin Baan. I started using cards that built around energize. As I continued to play, I would end up finding some weakness then replacing a card with something more useful. In the end, I just end up getting rid of energize cards and focusing on building a Blue/White deck.

I mean, I would love to build around their "specialties", but unless it can survive a top tier Kiora, Sorin, Koth, etc. deck it just becomes plain ****. And I would never bring something unreliable to an event.

I don't have Dovin but I think the issue is, assuming all overload effects work the same, is that overload 1 only triggers once when energized gems are matched. Otherwise he would be top tier since you would be able to energize the whole field in a turn or two.

Overload triggers once per matching instance. So if you make a match with an Energized gem, Overload 1 will trigger once. If that match cascades into another match with an Energized gem, Overload 1 will trigger a second time. If that cascade chains into another cascade with an Energized gem matched, Overload 1 will trigger once again. So you do have a chance to trigger Overload multiple times a turn, and gem destruction will also help with that.

But I do also agree that at the moment the Energize/Overload cards don't do enough on their own such that you need to summon out too many cards before you can start reaping the benefits which isn't all that great anyway. Although once people draw into more Kaladesh cards, we might start coming across some interesting interactions.

Well there are some pretty cool stuff so far that I have seen. Dovin can be pretty good if you can get the cascade going though there is an uncommon card that I think is essential for his deck, Empyreal Voyager, which could energize the whole field making a cascade effect rather useful.

and as black, I can kill the Empyreal Voyager and remove all the Energised gems on the board with 1 cheap 5 mana spell "Die Young"

bk1234

buscemi wrote:

Msaytar wrote:

Ohboy : there's not much use in arguing against these two since you won't change their opinion regardless of how much effort and knowledgable arguments you give.

They've decided they are right and will team up on you to discourage any actual discussion.

Sorry, I must of missed the knowledgable argument that Ohboy posted in this thread.

Please quote it so we can pick up discussion from there.

Also looking for this.

Lightcell

blacklotus wrote:

I don't have Dovin but I think the issue is, assuming all overload effects work the same, is that overload 1 only triggers once when energized gems are matched. Otherwise he would be top tier since you would be able to energize the whole field in a turn or two.

Overload triggers once per matching instance. So if you make a match with an Energized gem, Overload 1 will trigger once. If that match cascades into another match with an Energized gem, Overload 1 will trigger a second time. If that cascade chains into another cascade with an Energized gem matched, Overload 1 will trigger once again. So you do have a chance to trigger Overload multiple times a turn, and gem destruction will also help with that.

But I do also agree that at the moment the Energize/Overload cards don't do enough on their own such that you need to summon out too many cards before you can start reaping the benefits which isn't all that great anyway. Although once people draw into more Kaladesh cards, we might start coming across some interesting interactions.[/quote]

Well there are some pretty cool stuff so far that I have seen. Dovin can be pretty good if you can get the cascade going though there is an uncommon card that I think is essential for his deck, Empyreal Voyager, which could energize the whole field making a cascade effect rather useful.[/quote]

and as black, I can kill the Empyreal Voyager and remove all the Energised gems on the board with 1 cheap 5 mana spell "Die Young" [/quote]

There is an actual counter spell now as well plus the AI would need to be smart enough to kill the creature. Also don't think killing a creature removes energized gems. Also new Chandra's first ability is the same as the first one except it adds energized gems. I haven't really looked at red overcharge but I know green is pretty nasty. I think people just need to give it a chance and play with the new set first. Might just surprise you what it all can do.

Mainloop25

There are a couple of problems with energize. One is that it's a double edged sword. Your opponent can take advantage of energized gems just as easily as you can, provided that they are there at the end of your turn. If they happen to have a way to take advantage of Overload, then you're just helping them if you fill the board with energized gems before you get to use them. The other problem that I've run into, is that they work like support gems, in that they can't be converted like with mana conversion supports like Corrupted Grafstone, etc. So you can "choke out" yourself out of gem matches easily if you fill the entire board with energized gems. This is very easy to do with Empyreal Voyager or Era of Innovation/Tamiyo's Journal or other combos. With that said, there are some extremely powerful combos that you can pull off if you have the time and card to set them up .

tm00

In chandra defense, her ulti is probably the best way to beat red nodes that put a limit on the number of creatures you can lose, simply cast them all during the last turn after lowering the opponent with it.

Might be decent for a creatureless deck too.

Would be funny if they "addressed these complaint by nering ob, even if ob with decent mana gains is kinda nice by itself imho.

OhanaUnited

madwren wrote:

I stopped using Saheeli after she was ruined, though I did finally find the stomach to play her again in the last week or so. She had some success in QB, and I used her in Holiday Showdown to test a red hulk build which performed admirably.

I do not plan to play her in PVP, though, as planeswalkers with niche abilities or dependencies don't fare as well as those with generally applicable ones.

Try use Molten Nursery or Nettle Drone (wait until they fixed Nettle Drone's ability) and you will rediscover your love of Saheeli

wereotter

Mainloop25 wrote:

There are a couple of problems with energize. One is that it's a double edged sword. Your opponent can take advantage of energized gems just as easily as you can, provided that they are there at the end of your turn. If they happen to have a way to take advantage of Overload, then you're just helping them if you fill the board with energized gems before you get to use them. The other problem that I've run into, is that they work like support gems, in that they can't be converted like with mana conversion supports like Corrupted Grafstone, etc. So you can "choke out" yourself out of gem matches easily if you fill the entire board with energized gems. This is very easy to do with Empyreal Voyager or Era of Innovation/Tamiyo's Journal or other combos. With that said, there are some extremely powerful combos that you can pull off if you have the time and card to set them up .

That's why if you're running an energy deck you should use Aether Hub instead of converting gems. It'll give +3 to any match once you got that level of saturation. Much better than converting and hoping they align so you can match your colors.