Thank for for the Gold Covers of popular characters

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

jozier wrote:

Phantron wrote:

You can basically say Magneto/The Hood/OBW are AP generation (which is hard to calculate in value but if you do it's an extremely high effective damage) and Spiderman is stun, and that's the only thing Thor can't do. If these 4 characters cannot be selected at all, the best team would be 3 Thors. Not even The Punisher is remotely competitive against Thor. The only reason you mix Thor with other people is because you can't have 3 Thors on the same team.

Huh? Punisher can deal 3400 damage to Thor with 8 red AP, while also adding strike tiles (if you keep all 6 on the board, that's an extra what, 6-700 damage per turn for only 2 more green AP than Thor) along with an AOE + attack tile?

Thor is good. He's also slow and an AP denial/AP steal team can handle him fine.

But you complain for the sake of complaining about just about every single powerful character there is. It really seems like you just want to play Bejewelled.

And who does the first 4900 damage to Thor before you can do Retribution? 2 Judgment sets up a pretty potent strike tiles on board, while a single Call of the Storm is almost certain to kill someone instantly and leave the other two crippled.

Nobody said Thor can't have the same AP steal characters on his own team. I kept those characters out because they're hard to compare but they work just fine on Thor's team.

3 Thors will easily crush any 3 characters not in the 'ability hard to measure' category, and Thor goes well with any of those characters anyway.

So, I assume you think that BP is overpowered? BWGS? She does a lot more damage than MT does.

Unknown

Phant, I REALLY don't think 3 Thors will make your Thor 3 times as effective or 3 times as fast. It just gives them 3 times the health pool, less effective a stun.

Unknown

mechgouki wrote:

Phantron, why would you think 3 thors is a good thing?

Think about it. Even if you could have 3 spideys or 3 mags on the same team, would you do it?

All you do is like increase your Health pool to 3 times for that one character.

A balanced team ensures that all colors and powers can be used. Having 3 thors doesn't mean you can use Lightning strike 3 times with the same AP.

Even if I could, I still won't use 2 spideys on the same team.

You act like a Thor with 3x Max health isn't better than any (non-Magneto/The Hood/OBW/Spidey) team out there

Unknown

I don't think Thor is overpowered for a 3*. I never really thought the original 2* Thor was overpowered, either. It's just that he's a very strong 3* and would fit easily on anyone's team. AP denial can slow just about anyone down, but granted Thor is more susceptible.

I guess you could argue there's enough variation in 3*'s now that Thor isn't going to start showing up on everyone's A team, but I guess we'll see.

Unknown

The idea that people are happy dumping all that ISO into an ability set they have already levelled purely because the numbers are now bigger, then somehow thanking the devs for the opportunity is beyond me.

You know how you can explore Cap/Daken? By playing those characters. Saying you like them now because they are 2* characters with 3* stats is just...I don't know. I don't know the word for that.

You could have had 3 characters with new abilities introducing new mechanics and progressing the game, but instead you want the same characters in a different package. It makes no sense.

Unknown

mechgouki wrote:

Phant, I REALLY don't think 3 Thors will make your Thor 3 times as effective or 3 times as fast. It just gives them 3 times the health pool, less effective a stun.

But that's huge. Keeping Thor from using CoTS when he has 8500 health is very doable. Keeping Thor from using CoTS when he has 25000 health is... a bit of a problem. It's exponentially harder to keep up AP denial or stuns that long, and you don't have the option to kill him before he reaches CoTS with a pair of cheaper alpha strikes like Judgement.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

I don't have a problem with the gold characters themselves but I do have a problem with how so far they seem to be strictly better than just about anyone else out there in any measureable field. The only guys who are arguably better are guys who does things that are not easily measureable (Spiderman/Magneto/OBW/The Hood).

Generational obsolescence.

I would place the new "gold" characters in the realm of 3rd generation characters - which likely have the specific intent of obsoleting 1st gen characters. Unlike the 2nd gen characters, the ones released so far do not possess any significant downsides to counter their considerable strengths.

What a better way to deal with Spidey/CMags than to render them functionally obsolescent (from a raw number output perspective)? Who cares if CMags can translocate for 5k+ when future characters can AoE for similar amounts? Who cares about OBW/Spidey healing when new characters have so much health that Prologue healing them is impractical (let alone the desire to burn health packs when each one requires 8 - 10 hours EACH to naturally heal from being downed).

What a better way to eliminate the advantages of the early adopters than to release characters that trivialize 1st gen 141s?

Will players want to go through the pain of using Spidey on every single PvE fight when level 230 buffed "gold" characters each possess 20,000 to 25,000 health each?

It is the wave of the future.... power creep is here. Better get a move on to "keep up with the Joneses".

I'd hate to see what a 3rd gen 5000 health caster character outputs for damage (/shudder), or the likely upcoming 4th gen 4**** revamp that obsoletes everything currently in play....

Unknown

jozier wrote:

Phantron wrote:

jozier wrote:

Phantron wrote:

You can basically say Magneto/The Hood/OBW are AP generation (which is hard to calculate in value but if you do it's an extremely high effective damage) and Spiderman is stun, and that's the only thing Thor can't do. If these 4 characters cannot be selected at all, the best team would be 3 Thors. Not even The Punisher is remotely competitive against Thor. The only reason you mix Thor with other people is because you can't have 3 Thors on the same team.

Huh? Punisher can deal 3400 damage to Thor with 8 red AP, while also adding strike tiles (if you keep all 6 on the board, that's an extra what, 6-700 damage per turn for only 2 more green AP than Thor) along with an AOE + attack tile?

Thor is good. He's also slow and an AP denial/AP steal team can handle him fine.

But you complain for the sake of complaining about just about every single powerful character there is. It really seems like you just want to play Bejewelled.

And who does the first 4900 damage to Thor before you can do Retribution? 2 Judgment sets up a pretty potent strike tiles on board, while a single Call of the Storm is almost certain to kill someone instantly and leave the other two crippled.

Nobody said Thor can't have the same AP steal characters on his own team. I kept those characters out because they're hard to compare but they work just fine on Thor's team.

3 Thors will easily crush any 3 characters not in the 'ability hard to measure' category, and Thor goes well with any of those characters anyway.

So, I assume you think that BP is overpowered? BWGS? She does a lot more damage than MT does.

BP is pushing the envelope, yes, but he isn't as blatant as Lazy Thor. Compared to Thor, he has two fairly useless skills, 1500 less health, and a downside (albeit minor) to his nuke.

I don't think anyone is calling BWGS overpowered. Why would they, just look at her stats next to BP's. Now look at BP's next to Thor. Thor has 3700 more health than BWGS, by the way. Do you not see any issues with the game's second-highest health character doing damage comparable to a "glass cannon"?

Unknown

Clint wrote:

I have a blast playing him and I have totally ignored the 2* version since I made my transition to 3*.

This is actually my biggest issue with the gold/lazy characters. I don't have a problem with them per se. But we still have to keep the inferior version around (and take up a roster spot) because that version might be required in a future PvP (e.g. 2* only) or PvE (required/buffed hero) event.

Unknown

I think lazy cap will turn out to be my middle man. I don't know how he is going to level up but he is a bit of a all rounder and if the fight drags on, he comes alive and I don't think you'll be seeing the board again. 2 star cap was efficient for those long haul battles.

Clintman

Team_Xtreme wrote:

Clint wrote:

I have a blast playing him and I have totally ignored the 2* version since I made my transition to 3*.

This is actually my biggest issue with the gold/lazy characters. I don't have a problem with them per se. But we still have to keep the inferior version around (and take up a roster spot) because that version might be required in a future PvP (e.g. 2* only) or PvE (required/buffed hero) event.

I agree with you completely.

Unknown

mjsko wrote:

BP is pushing the envelope, yes, but he isn't as blatant as Lazy Thor. Compared to Thor, he has two fairly useless skills, 1500 less health, and a downside (albeit minor) to his nuke.

I don't think anyone is calling BWGS overpowered. Why would they, just look at her stats next to BP's. Now look at BP's next to Thor. Thor has 3700 more health than BWGS, by the way. Do you not see any issues with the game's second-highest health character doing damage comparable to a "glass cannon"?

It's really not that comparable. She does 10K total damage per 19 green AP. Thor does under 8K total damage for 14 green AP.

Here's the further rub: Thor can generate a bunch of green through his 12 AP yellow but it requires matching luck. For 11 purple AP, BWGS can generate a far more guaranteed green AP, since you can choose to match it however you want. 6 green AP from deceptive tactics can quickly become far more once you factor in match 4s and match 5s generated by her ability.

Thor is a much better defensive character than BWGS but offensively she is an underrated member of a team.

Unknown

You don't need luck to get greens when you're adding 9 green tiles on the board.

Thunder Strike can do half of its current damage and it'd still be a strong contender for the strongest yellow ability in the game. Oasis is one of the most powerful environmental ability in the game, and Thunder Strike adds 3 more green than Oasis and does damage too.

Unknown

GSBW gets additional tile damage on her sniper rifle. Usually it's in the +1000-1200 range of damage on the lead target.

Clintman

Lyrian wrote:

Phantron wrote:

I don't have a problem with the gold characters themselves but I do have a problem with how so far they seem to be strictly better than just about anyone else out there in any measureable field. The only guys who are arguably better are guys who does things that are not easily measureable (Spiderman/Magneto/OBW/The Hood).

Generational obsolescence.

I would place the new "gold" characters in the realm of 3rd generation characters - which likely have the specific intent of obsoleting 1st gen characters. Unlike the 2nd gen characters, the ones released so far do not possess any significant downsides to counter their considerable strengths.

What a better way to deal with Spidey/CMags than to render them functionally obsolescent (from a raw number output perspective)? Who cares if CMags can translocate for 5k+ when future characters can AoE for similar amounts? Who cares about OBW/Spidey healing when new characters have so much health that Prologue healing them is impractical (let alone the desire to burn health packs when each one requires 8 - 10 hours EACH to naturally heal from being downed).

What a better way to eliminate the advantages of the early adopters than to release characters that trivialize 1st gen 141s?

Will players want to go through the pain of using Spidey on every single PvE fight when level 230 buffed "gold" characters each possess 20,000 to 25,000 health each?

It is the wave of the future.... power creep is here. Better get a move on to "keep up with the Joneses".

I'd hate to see what a 3rd gen 5000 health caster character outputs for damage (/shudder), or the likely upcoming 4th gen 4**** revamp that obsoletes everything currently in play....

I think you have it right on. Mudflation. Happens and with it comes evolution of strategies.

akboyce

Clint wrote:

Team_Xtreme wrote:

Clint wrote:

I have a blast playing him and I have totally ignored the 2* version since I made my transition to 3*.

This is actually my biggest issue with the gold/lazy characters. I don't have a problem with them per se. But we still have to keep the inferior version around (and take up a roster spot) because that version might be required in a future PvP (e.g. 2* only) or PvE (required/buffed hero) event.

I agree with you completely.

This is my problem with the Lazy characters. I need to keep Original Thor to use just in case.

Additionally there is no strategic choice between Lazy and Not Lazy versions. When leveling 3* characters there is a interesting transition that occurs. What level is this character better than my level 2*? This is a less interesting choice for Lazy Thor. Oh my Lazy Thors numbers is bigger than my 2* ones now... Time to switch. There is still some choice if your Lazy Thor is under covered.

Any time I CAN use Lazy Thor 2* Thor is bad. Even if 2* Thor is buffed it will just be a 2nd copy of Lazy Thor. With buffs and restrictions you can still find uses for lesser star characters. I use Astonishing Wolverine when he is buffed and it is a different experience than using Patch. It is refreshing. Although getting the 3* version of Wolverine lessons the amount I use 2* it does not make it zero. Interesting designs like the 3* and 2* widows make me want to use both. Lazy characters do not allow this.

I do not mind higher tier characters lessening the usefulness of characters (like Wolverines) but Lazy ones flat out obsolete the lower star version. Even if you can use the lower star version due to buffs or restrictions it is not a refreshing change of pace.

NorthernPolarity

abuelo wrote:

The idea that people are happy dumping all that ISO into an ability set they have already levelled purely because the numbers are now bigger, then somehow thanking the devs for the opportunity is beyond me.

You know how you can explore Cap/Daken? By playing those characters. Saying you like them now because they are 2* characters with 3* stats is just...I don't know. I don't know the word for that.

Once you've transitioned into a 3* roster, it just doesn't make sense to incorporate 2* characters into the rotation anymore. Some of us would like the opportunity to actually use 3* versions of these characters in our regular rotations.

abuelo wrote:

You could have had 3 characters with new abilities introducing new mechanics and progressing the game, but instead you want the same characters in a different package. It makes no sense.

The whole point of gold characters is so that the devs can roll out 3 characters in the time it takes to normally roll out one so that we would have more content to play with. The alternative to 3 gold characters isn't 3 new characters, its more like no new characters at all.

Unknown

akboyce wrote:

Clint wrote:

Team_Xtreme wrote:

Clint wrote:

I have a blast playing him and I have totally ignored the 2* version since I made my transition to 3*.

This is actually my biggest issue with the gold/lazy characters. I don't have a problem with them per se. But we still have to keep the inferior version around (and take up a roster spot) because that version might be required in a future PvP (e.g. 2* only) or PvE (required/buffed hero) event.

I agree with you completely.

This is my problem with the Lazy characters. I need to keep Original Thor to use just in case.

Additionally there is no strategic choice between Lazy and Not Lazy versions. When leveling 3* characters there is a interesting transition that occurs. What level is this character better than my level 2*? This is a less interesting choice for Lazy Thor. Oh my Lazy Thors numbers is bigger than my 2* ones now... Time to switch. There is still some choice if your Lazy Thor is under covered.

Any time I CAN use Lazy Thor 2* Thor is bad. Even if 2* Thor is buffed it will just be a 2nd copy of Lazy Thor. With buffs and restrictions you can still find uses for lesser star characters. I use Astonishing Wolverine when he is buffed and it is a different experience than using Patch. It is refreshing. Although getting the 3* version of Wolverine lessons the amount I use 2* it does not make it zero. Interesting designs like the 3* and 2* widows make me want to use both. Lazy characters do not allow this.

I do not mind higher tier characters lessening the usefulness of characters (like Wolverines) but Lazy ones flat out obsolete the lower star version. Even if you can use the lower star version due to buffs or restrictions it is not a refreshing change of pace.

Huh? The bolded part is entirely contradictory. You would never use 2* Wolverine over either Patch or Punisher unless 2* was buffed or there was a restriction. Same goes for the majority of 2* and 1*. 3* are better, which is natural, they are more rare and more expensive.

There's currently no strategic choice between 2* Wolvie and any 3*, 2* wolvie is incredibly weak when compared to most 3*. So you need buffs and restrictions. Which doesn't change just because a gold character is around: buff 2* Thor or restrict it to 2* Thor and voila, you now choose 2* over 3*.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

The whole point of gold characters is so that the devs can roll out 3 characters in the time it takes to normally roll out one so that we would have more content to play with. The alternative to 3 gold characters isn't 3 new characters, its more like no new characters at all.

I would have preferred no new characters over lazy gold characters. It also would have given players a chance to get covers if they didn't have them for that event.

Now my 2* Thor and Cap will be tanking fodder in future PvE events.

NorthernPolarity

UncleSam wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

The whole point of gold characters is so that the devs can roll out 3 characters in the time it takes to normally roll out one so that we would have more content to play with. The alternative to 3 gold characters isn't 3 new characters, its more like no new characters at all.

I would have preferred no new characters over lazy gold characters. It also would have given players a chance to get covers if they didn't have them for that event.

Now my 2* Thor and Cap will be tanking fodder in future PvE events.

Preferring no new characters is a perfectly valid opinion. Just wanted to correct Abuelo's comment that we would have gotten new 3*s in place of gold characters, which simply isn't the case.