*** Black Widow (Grey Suit) ***

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  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    If my current team is maxed out thor/wolvie/O. black widow, would grey suit be a suitable replacement for O. Widow? My grey suit is currently 3/3/3, so I'm starting to think about pumping iso into her once she hits 5 green since she's a top-tier end-game character right now. The problem is that my rag is only 1/2, so I'm not sure how viable she would be without rags feeding her green. Is she good enough to replace any of the characters on my team, or should I wait on the iso pumping until I have a higher level rags?
  • If my current team is maxed out thor/wolvie/O. black widow, would grey suit be a suitable replacement for O. Widow? My grey suit is currently 3/3/3, so I'm starting to think about pumping iso into her once she hits 5 green since she's a top-tier end-game character right now. The problem is that my rag is only 1/2, so I'm not sure how viable she would be without rags feeding her green. Is she good enough to replace any of the characters on my team, or should I wait on the iso pumping until I have a higher level rags?

    Personally I would wait but I think I may be overvaluing Thor/Wolvie/OBW... as in I kind of want to start a second game just to to force myself to play with them.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    If my current team is maxed out thor/wolvie/O. black widow, would grey suit be a suitable replacement for O. Widow? My grey suit is currently 3/3/3, so I'm starting to think about pumping iso into her once she hits 5 green since she's a top-tier end-game character right now. The problem is that my rag is only 1/2, so I'm not sure how viable she would be without rags feeding her green. Is she good enough to replace any of the characters on my team, or should I wait on the iso pumping until I have a higher level rags?

    Personally I would wait but I think I may be overvaluing Thor/Wolvie/OBW... as in I kind of want to start a second game just to to force myself to play with them.

    They're pretty much the 2* dream team =) You should purposely downgrade your roster and join the 2* plebians.
  • Grey Widow is pretty squishy for for a 3-star character. Apart from purple, her damage attributes differ from that of her powers. (She has weak green and red matches). Her red Power is so bad, it's even worse than Rag's nerfed power. Her Purple is not bad, but costs quite a bit. Her true power lies in her green. High damage, cascades, AOE. But let's face it. You're not likely to get 19 green AP in a battle easily.

    Overall, she was fueled by Ragnarok. Now, without that infinite green AP, I don't think she will be that good. 19 AP is too expensive to pull off, and she's too squishy.

    She'll probably be able to feed off from Hulk, but apart from that, I think she's most affected by the nerf.
  • she's is craptacular now. i'd say borderline unusable. against high level teams, 1 snipe wont kill them because everybody has 4k-7k hp. it used to rely on ragnaroks red to make up the difference before the snipe so that the snipe would kill them. the way rag is now, he can't do this, so one snipe just ends up with a bunch of hurt guys and then you start collecting for ANOTHER snipe icon_rolleyes.gif

    I'm hesitant on the hulk because in order to use him as a green generator you'd have to intentionally not max his level so his passive will trigger. At 141 there's no way his passive will trigger on autoattacks, which is what I want to happen. I haven't done the math but I think he'd need to be kept at a really low level (60-70?) in order for 5% of his hp to trigger reliably. and at that level it might be hard to get him out there to take hits. he will shield BW on red / green, but you cant' have a 3rd character on red / green.

    so it would be hulk / bw / spiderman probably. BUT you will still have to snipe twice because nobody is doing any damage on that team after the snipe (level 60 hulk .... black widow with no ap ... SPIDERMAN? icon_rolleyes.gif )

    so bascially i'm just shelving BWG


    edit: wouldn't be spiderman either. you don't want them to be stunned. you want them hitting the hulk. so instead you'd want the hood. lol. I guess the appeal of this is you only need 1 high level person on this team, which is black widow. the hood you can just keep at level 15 since he doesn't even do anything.
  • Anyone else agree? Or disagree?
  • My current 3 star team is IM 40, BWG, and Classic Spiderman. I routinely use her sniper rifle ability to kill one to two of the opposing characters. You have to make a couple matches to activate her purple, then make creative use of the board with deceptive tactics to power sniper rifle. Most teams will be worn down enough by this process to lose one or two members to the snipe, after which point you stun lock the leftovers and heal before dealing the finishing blow(s). This makes for a roughly 3 or 4 minute match. If things go poorly it might drag to 10. If things go really poorly and you have to finish with Spidey and Iron-man, it can take forever--but the come-back factor of the team is very high. Spiderman has a lot of defense on his side.

    This isn't as fast as playing with a character like Ragnarok who just constantly spews out green AP, but this is part of the reason that character was debilitated. That people expect a match to take a minute or two to play and suggest that using a 19 AP ability through other means is "unplayable" speaks to the rather high pacing expectations set during Peak Rag.

    Additional: Remember that Deceptive Tactics at five is usually a better-than-break-even proposition in terms of converting purple to green. So the 19 point cost of Sniper Rifle is really like 6 or 7 green and then the 11 purple you have to use to power DT. If Spiderman is on your team, you want to make those matches early on anyway so that you can spew out defense tiles.
  • DayvDayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think this would be less of an issue if GS BW's attack colors matched her powers.
  • She is still a good pick. As her own purple feeds her, she can also be self sustaining in that aspect. Alternatively, she can use her green generation to power others and still be able to use her sniper shot as a finishing move/segue of killing a single target and seriously damaging the next target in line.

    Obviously, sniper shot was not meant to be spammable, but she is still a very viable pick, especially with moving away from the speed meta.
  • I think GSW's purple is awesome, I dunno what you guys are on. One L4 Purple usually gets me really close to having enough for one snipe and it isn't really even that expensive, not to mention usually forming 2 crit tiles and doing good damage on its own if you have someone in the party with high green attack.

    As for Ragnarok, I didn't have a viable one (mine's still 2/2), and even I think that nerf is way overboard. Taking it to 3 Red AP and decreasing to 4 green tiles probably would've been enough.
  • Yea, she sucks now. I guess it would be pointless to try to nerf her as well. Everyone should probably just forget about her an move on. There's nothing to see here.
  • I agree that her purple is pretty cool. I find it to be her most interesting ability, yet people ignored it because of Thunderclap.
  • I agree that her purple is pretty cool. I find it to be her most interesting ability, yet people ignored it because of Thunderclap.

    I agree. Her purple is awesome. I used it a lot, but now it'll be much more necessary if you want that sniper shot.
  • She shouldn't have to be fully reliant on one specific character in the game to make her somewhat useful.

    I think her red needs to be changed to something else that synergizes with the rest of her set more than just hoping for cascades.
  • i don't have ragnarok before, and still use her for her purple skill. after i got max blue/purple spidey, combined with wolvie. it's better. spidey create purple protect tiles and she can fuel wolvie feral claws.
  • Nonsense. Grey Widow has just moved Hulk in front of Ragnarok on her dance card, that's all.
  • Yea, I'm hoping there is a low AP/purple generator introduced at some point down the line.
  • mechgouki wrote:
    Raggy's nerf will also pull down Grey Widow's usefulness.

    Not to sound mean, but yeah, this was a blindingly obvious consequence of the Ragnarok nerf, and I daresay all us Grey Widow players realized it more or less the nanosecond that the nerf was announced.

    Nerfing Rag also means nerfing all of Rag's best partners who were fed by his green AP generation. Grey Widow is the obvious biggie (she went from top tier to limbo), but both Storms, and arguably Wolvie and even Frank got the wind knocked out of their sails. A lot of the game's team synergy/strategy just got flushed down the toilet, with nothing to replace it.

    As a longtime Grey Widow user, and one of the very first Grey Widow/Rag/Spidey runners as far as I know, I was less than happy about the change.

    For those who say that her purple is strong enough to maintain her previous power level, I would respectfully point out that C. Magneto can do a lot more with purple. Also, her purple clashes with Frank and Wolvie (if you were thinking of running either of those), since it converts only basic tiles, and it doesn't work on special/strike tiles.
  • someguy wrote:

    For those who say that her purple is strong enough to maintain her previous power level, I would respectfully point out that C. Magneto can do a lot more with purple. Also, her purple clashes with Frank and Wolvie (if you were thinking of running either of those), since it converts only basic tiles, and it doesn't work on special/strike tiles.

    I think this is slightly deceptive. Every character with a green ability is suddenly less desirable if the tap on your wall that pours out green AP is suddenly shut off. I will accept that her overall desirability took a hit relative to other characters, but only to the extent that any green-using character lost a free source of energy.

    She is not, however, in the same boat as other characters with super-expensive moves. I still never use Ballistic Salvo (well, effectively never), but count on Sniper Rifle as a relatively early finish to 1 or 2 of my opponents' dudes. And Deceptive Tactics might not hit as hard as Magneto's eleventy-million point tile-swapping move, but when seen as the first half of a 10k sniper rifle shot (and filtered through a character who hits hard on green) it's nothing to sneeze at.
  • Black Widow's Sniper Rifle isn't destroying count down tiles on a regular basis. That has to be a bug, no?
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