A season after cupcakes were killed - yeah or nay?

Coubii

Ombast wrote:

Coubii wrote:
I'm in a clearance 7 with a 3* tear roaster. Before I were never able to hit a top 100 (except luck of late event start). And I'm still not.

However on matching, now I can finally enjoy PVP. I find matching somehow to my level. I can hit 400 points per event, compared to roughly 200 max previously.

In conclusion, a slight improvement.

Seriously? I have a 3* roster - And I managed ~800 before I learned how to eat CCs, 1200+ for the season before it got killed - and now I hit 900 most PVP events (often top 10, always top 25).

A 3* roster should make 600 from 2 hours of play - both now and before the change. Same with the 4K ten pack. A minimum of effort and it's yours. Might require a shield at the end though.

That's my experience.

I don't use shield, it's a waste of hp for my play style. It's just not worth.
Even heal pack, I try to avoid. I use them only after a critical loss in my early starting play of the day. Otherwise, I switch to another team. I just pay attention to keep my A team for the last switch. If all my good characters are out, well, it mean that I should spend time in the real life.
When reaching around 400, I feel a difference in the matching. Match earn less points, and cost more life to my roaster. So... 2 hours of PVP, nah, not for me. I can't and I don't want. I play less than 2 hours a day and mostly PVE.
But It's just enough to get the 10 pack of the season with a little grind on the simulator (where without boosted character I found better match).

mpqr7

Part of a problem with a poll like this is that the responses depend on where you are in the game. So "better" vs "worse" is all relative.

Some examples:

It appears for me specifically, it's much worse. (10 cp, when it was formerly 25 cp) And remember, I didn't use cupcakes, I simply used the fact that there were so many more targets with juicy 50+ scores for the final jump from 1000 to 1300, so even if I lost a few 70-point defensive matches, it wasn't as big of a deal.

For people with much better rosters than mine (champed 5*s), it's basically the same. (They can still hit 25 cp, plus placement is better).

For people with worse rosters than mine, it seems to be better (they can now hit 10 cp, when before they couldn't get any cp).

So... there's that.

Ruinate

I can get same rank 1 or top 5 with a fifth of the work I used to put in. That's a good thing because I don't enjoy pvp anymore. I used to pvp for fun and rewards were icing but now I pvp for the rewards and gtfo. Like pve.

hopper1979

No significant change ~7500 points for the season, 1 of the pvp events above 900 placed in the top 50 for all the rest. I will say the end of the rounds did appear harder with mostly maxed 4 star teams with the occasional 5 but with some searching reasonable teams could still be found.

Tiggida

I don't mind ccs being gone, but the problem now is lack of targets when I'm between 1,000-1,200 pts. Trying to climb 200 pts with targets less than 30pts takes too long and/or too many shields especially when you have to skip for 5-10 mins just to find one close to 30 pts. And since targets are so scarce it makes you a huge target when you're in that range unshielded. It's so deflating getting 30 pts but losing 150+ at the same time.

Rumakashi

I don't think it's bad that cupcakes are gone, but the system is to review. Yesterday, i hit 900 for the first time thanks to the boosted starlord, after 800, the targets gave me 20-30 points, but, there was only 5-6 different targets for me. It's hard to prevent hitting the same person twice if you don't have the choice...

JamieMadrox

The lack of cupcakes makes the game more interesting IMHO. That said, weaker teams are not completely dead, but they've gutted the factories.

drcassino

As other posters have noted, cupcakes aren't dead - they're just a lot tougher than they used to be. I have a champed OML and 20 Champed 4*s, so my experience of PVP is much as it ever was: climb to 700-800, then ride cupcakes to 900-1000, then shield hop past 1200 before shielding out. The "grills" are still there - it's just that they typically use a weak champed 5* instead of the 2* teams that we used to see. I can take down a 450 SS or Phoenix or Cap in a few minutes, but these grills are likely impossible for anyone not running at least a boosted 4* team. There is much less point inflation, and the inability of weaker teams to get the grills means that there are fewer teams with high scores, which means that 1200-1300 is now getting me top 10s regularly, but I can imagine it would be much harder for weaker teams to get the maximum progression.
Tl; DR: it's not much more than an inconvenience for the top percentiles of players with champed 5s, but it seems like the gap between them and the next rung down has gotten much bigger.

Jarvind

I'm fine with it.

I have always been anti-cupcake since I felt that they cheapened the idea of PVP - instead of "player versus player" they made it "player coordinating with player to game the system and eliminate the sense of competition." I will concede, though, that max progression has gotten harder - before I could hit it sometimes, whereas I didn't get there at all this season because the amount of shields would have been prohibitive.

With the lowered requirements for the 4* cover and the 10 CP on the way up, though, I'm totally okay with that. I'm enjoying actually getting some alright placement rewards with fewer inflated scores floating around - I earned my first-ever 4* cover from placement on the Strange PVP, which was pretty cool.

Fightmastermpq

fmftint wrote:

atomzed wrote:

A season has passed since cupcakes were killed.

While there is still the option of grilling (putting in a loaner or lower level character), it is no longer the same level as cupcakes. for cupcakes, you could clear it quickly even with a 3* team. For grilling, it's very tough to do so with a 3* team.

i noticed that this has stopped the points inflation, especially in thee middle tier. Why do i say so? because of my 46th rank placement in season. In the past 3 seasons, i will hit 1300 almost every pvp, and i will still be outside of top 50.

but this season, i only hit 1200 AND there were at least 3-4 pvp which i only hit 1000. and yet i gotten top 50? this is surprising.

what are your thoughts of the post cupcake era?

That's just favorable bracketing, my 13735 season score landed me outside T50

I disagree. My experience was nearly identical. I finished with 14500 or so and got 45th or around there - just inside T50. It was my highest season placement ever (my first season 10-pack) and usually I score a little higher. I play almost exclusively in S5.

The grind to 1200 is a little tougher, I sometimes shield before max progression where I don't think I ever did the past couple seasons. Battles take longer, hops are riskier. But my placement is always T10, usually T5 just for hitting max. If the 4* covers for 1st are useful to me (champ levels) I can usually hop a couple times and take first. I finished first at least 3 times this season where I had only taken the top spot a couple times every previously.

So the gameplay is a little tougher, but the rewards are much better, and I use fewer shields to get them. My 4*s are actually starting to progress a little faster as I can often earn 2 per event (sometimes 3) to the previous 1.

So overall it's a win for me as I'm sure it is for most 5* rosters, but we kind of knew that going in to it.

grunth13

Fightmastermpq wrote:

fmftint wrote:

atomzed wrote:

A season has passed since cupcakes were killed.

While there is still the option of grilling (putting in a loaner or lower level character), it is no longer the same level as cupcakes. for cupcakes, you could clear it quickly even with a 3* team. For grilling, it's very tough to do so with a 3* team.

i noticed that this has stopped the points inflation, especially in thee middle tier. Why do i say so? because of my 46th rank placement in season. In the past 3 seasons, i will hit 1300 almost every pvp, and i will still be outside of top 50.

but this season, i only hit 1200 AND there were at least 3-4 pvp which i only hit 1000. and yet i gotten top 50? this is surprising.

what are your thoughts of the post cupcake era?

That's just favorable bracketing, my 13735 season score landed me outside T50

I disagree. My experience was nearly identical. I finished with 14500 or so and got 45th or around there - just inside T50. It was my highest season placement ever (my first season 10-pack) and usually I score a little higher. I play almost exclusively in S5.

The grind to 1200 is a little tougher, I sometimes shield before max progression where I don't think I ever did the past couple seasons. Battles take longer, hops are riskier. But my placement is always T10, usually T5 just for hitting max. If the 4* covers for 1st are useful to me (champ levels) I can usually hop a couple times and take first. I finished first at least 3 times this season where I had only taken the top spot a couple times every previously.

So the gameplay is a little tougher, but the rewards are much better, and I use fewer shields to get them. My 4*s are actually starting to progress a little faster as I can often earn 2 per event (sometimes 3) to the previous 1.

So overall it's a win for me as I'm sure it is for most 5* rosters, but we kind of knew that going in to it.

This in a nut shell is where PVP has gone. The 5 star guys are continuing to get better because now they get all the top rewards. Before, 4 star guys that wanted to hop like crazy could get first if I didn't want to put the effort, but now, they have no chance. There were multiple things changed at the same time so results are hard to decipher (10cp at 575, scl levels further separating out the groups, etc). The big thing is the high points matches are just not there anymore after 1k. I still rarely shield before 1.2 unless I am front running. I still wish they would lower the point loss after 800 like they promised, because getting hit for 150 or more points when you are fighting for 45 points is very disheartening for some.

carrion_pigeons

CC's being gone hasn't really changed anything for me. I never saw one before and I (obviously) never see them now. My scores are similar for the level of effort I put in and my placement remains irrelevant-tier.

That said, having the 10 CP at an achievable level has made PvP a thing I pay attention to now. Before my time in PvP was "jump in, kick over the seeds, maybe play one or two matches until I lose one, quit". Now I actually try to hit 575 once in a while. So if CCs going away and the changes to the rewards structure are a package deal, then it's one that unequivocally benefited me.

Also the increase to progression requirements in PvE has left me much less engaged with that part of the game, so I have more time to devote to PvP. I would honestly prefer to play PvE since I hate the time pressure and limited roster value in PvP, but I'm not going to do anything in the game if it requires me to grind my face off to make any progress.

dsds

I am doing a bit better. Rarely seen any cupcakes before anyway. With the total points lower, I tend to climb high early and stay there. I hope that's why I am not getting attacked as much because not many stay high ranked/points so early and thus I lose less points?

Also I am going to acknowledge that the new SCL has helped a lot.

I try to do my part to increase points in the slice. I don't ever climb over 1000pts so that there isn't a net points lost in the slice I am in. I keep yoyoing up and down to help add more points. It's not as good as cupcakes, but it's something? Of course I get a bunch of iso for my troubles!

Tilesmasher

My cap earnings have been cut in half, so still **** the change as far as I'm concerned.

snlf25

I have 8 4* champs and all of the 3*s champed except for Strange of course. I find it significantly harder to get to 900 now. Not that the matches are harder, it's just that there is a lot less points. I used to average 37 points approaching 900 now it's down to 27. That's a lot more exposure and I don't shield hop. I'll use a couple here or there but I don't have that kind of HP. The most aggravating part is that we were lied to and it never did what it intended unless they really meant to make it harder for non whales to compete for the scant worthwhile placement prizes? Then kudos if that's the case, job well done.

JFisch

My answer is: It depends.

In general, hitting 800-900 is no easier or harder than it was before. 900 being lower than 1000 makes it feel like getting the 4* cover is somewhat easier than before. Likewise, with the lower high-end scores, when I get to 900 and shield, I usually finish top 25 or even top 10 whereas before I would only occasionally top 100.

That said, on a week where none of my champion 4*s are boosted, 500-900 is a shark infested minefield of an ocean so vast that much past 700 depends on luck and timing. So at least some of this "improvement" is due to my roster development and not the cupcake change.

This season was really a tale of two seasons for me. (My championed characters are bold in the recap below.)

The week XFW, Peggy, XFDP, and PuniMax were boosted, I had to swim upstream with only XFW against the choppy waters of X-Force synergy and Peggy's awesomeness. I tried supplementing with my (unboosted) champ Rulk but I didn't hit 900 once that week.

The week Carnage, IW, Cage, and War Machine were boosted I had to rely on IW for the heavy lifting, but the rest of the boosts were so universally bad/too new that as long as I skipped Carnage I could get to 900 with a little planning and effort. It helped that one of the PVPs was Ghost Rider.

The week Miles, Elektra, Cho, and Rulk were boosted PVP was as easy as the prologue and I probably could have pushed for 1200 if I cared.

The Bob The

Well, it's easier for me now, but that's a bad comparison because I built a 4* roster on two things: Being in a competitive alliance and use of cupcakes. So I either hit my alliance min of 600 and hang out mostly untouched for the rest of PVP, or I climb to 900 for a 4* I want in the last three hours then shield out. So my play is different now, but so is my roster. I will say that I'm never gonna hop to 1200 because I have no interest in the punching bag antics that would ensue. PVP is just something I do by myself again, which makes it a lot more mercenary (and a lot less interesting), but hey, I got mine, right?

On the note of my new normal of dropping a single 3-hour shield per PVP: Anyone think there's maybe a correlation between that and the increase in special vaults and other HP spending opportunities since the change? Just askin'.

Fightmastermpq

The Bob The wrote:

On the note of my new normal of dropping a single 3-hour shield per PVP: Anyone think there's maybe a correlation between that and the increase in special vaults and other HP spending opportunities since the change? Just askin'.

Absolutely. Far less revenue is being generated from shields and so other methods to spend HP are popping up.....and if you notice - at a lower value. I'm a sucker for the 100 HP daily deals and will even go for the 200 HP ones on new character events, but I'm not touching that Deadpool Vault with a ten foot pole - there is no value there whatsoever. Or what about the Strange Vaults where you could spend 350 HP to earn 200 HP? It's obvious they are trying to increase the spending, but in a manner that doesn't substantially increase the rate of progression to cupcake levels again.

chamber44

i did worse. If the boosted 4* was Rulk, 4Clops, or IMHB, i could usually hit 1000 with limited problems. This last time, got bogged down at 850. Started losing as much as I was winning each match and shielded at around 23 hours. I planned on queueing up 2-3 good matches for a quick hop for that Starlord cover, but starting at just under 8 hours to go, couldn't find a single match that didn't have a maxed 4Clops or Venom. Not one.

dsds

The Bob The wrote:

Well, it's easier for me now, but that's a bad comparison because I built a 4* roster on two things: Being in a competitive alliance and use of cupcakes. So I either hit my alliance min of 600 and hang out mostly untouched for the rest of PVP, or I climb to 900 for a 4* I want in the last three hours then shield out. So my play is different now, but so is my roster. I will say that I'm never gonna hop to 1200 because I have no interest in the punching bag antics that would ensue. PVP is just something I do by myself again, which makes it a lot more mercenary (and a lot less interesting), but hey, I got mine, right?

On the note of my new normal of dropping a single 3-hour shield per PVP: Anyone think there's maybe a correlation between that and the increase in special vaults and other HP spending opportunities since the change? Just askin'.

I have found myself spending more hp too. To be honest I have used more shields after cupcakes. At the last hour, it doens't matter who is boosted on my roster, I am starving for points and getting hit left and right. It didn't matter when cupcakes are around because I would be top 200. But now the shield gets me top 25-100 almost all the time. And spending 75 hp and then getting back 50 from the rank rewards is definitely worth it. Also the 3* covers I get from rank also may score me more hp anyway.

Disclaimer: Still F2P, never spent a nickel. But get enough HP from pve and pvp to use one 3hour shield.

I think getting rid of the cupcakes actually reduced more points than was intended. 1.) Cupcake points were gone and 2.) There are less competitive players in slices because it requires much more effort so some people gave up and just did their minimum for their alliance.