Why I hate PVP

alphabeta

Polares wrote:

What I don't like about Line communication are truces between Alliances, this should be 'forbidden'. People who don't use Line and smaller alliances can't do truces, so if a bunch of people (specially the big alliances with numbers) agree on not hitting each other, that means they are going to hit more the people from other alliances and not using Line. That is unfair in my opinion. But a part from that, people scoring higher just helps everybody score higher, so in the end it is good for everybody (if placement rewards were better then this would be a bigger issue).

And that's the bit you don't understand because you don't use it and therefore are making assumptions.

I'll hit and be hit during my climb to 600 / 700 but from then on upwards I'm exclusively hitting people who are part of the truces I'm in - only hitting them when I know they are shielded so my points go up as theres are unaffected so they can q me up to do the same.

The smaller alliances are irrelevant by this point because if you are even appearing in our q's its as a sub 5 point match that will only be hit if farming for ISO and will leave you a very juice retal if you have the team to take it on.

Alliances outside of line and truces are fair game on climbs but they don't show any care about not hitting me so why should I care about hitting them - after that they are irrelevant.

dsds

Yup no outside communications for me. Hit 900 quite a few times now. Was able to 1000 before the change as well. Most of the time, i don't though because it is so much effort. I don't use shields and save all my hp for... when they make them useful again. Sitting on 6000hp now. Haven't paid a nickel.

Yes I hate pvp too. But I still play it. It's like how some people hate the day after drinking, yet they still drink, but the opposite? I hate pvp, but love the rewards it gives?

Really outside communication is kinda meh to me? I can see needing it for a pc game. But not really a mobile game that is supposed to be casual?

Yes I know this game can be played on the pc, but I think it was meant for mobile and I've played it on pc. it sucks. I'd much rather play it on my phone.

chamber44

Calnexin wrote:

Dartmaster01 wrote:

I only have one champed 4* (thor), don't coordinate with anyone in or out of the game and have no problem hitting 900 whenever I feel like it.

Honest question - what is your time investment in this process?

I feel like it takes ~ 1 hr to get to ~ 400-500. After that, I'm playing 20-30 pt matches against teams that will require multiple health packs, if I can beat them at all.

Seems like with a champed 4hor and IM40, you should be able to hit 800 pretty quickly (especially with your 8 cover OML) . I usually do that in two hops with either 4Clops or Rulk - one to about 500, take my lumps back down, poke at it throughout the day and try to climb back to at least 400, and then push again to 800. Very important to do it at random off times and avoid the last 3 hours.

i'm not sure what else your working on with your ISO, but i'd focus on Rulk. Even though he's not covered properly, if you luck into the other covers and can champ/respec him right away, he'll help you a ton. He might not be top 3 anymore, but he's the best 4 i have champed and when he's boosted, 900 is cake (and I don't use Line at all).

Dragon_Nexus

TC, if you can, get into slice 3.

I used to main slice 4 because I heard that's where the high scoring is, and it used to be the top 10 would fight amongst themselves creating lots of points and the 1000 mark was easy to get to. Things suddenly changed and slice 4 became hella competitive. I'd maybe scrape up to 900 if I was lucky but I'd have to shield fast because I'd soon get knocked down to 750.

A few seasons back I switched to slice 3 for a season to see if it made a difference. I could comfortably get to 900 and stay there without too much competition if I did my final push 8 hours before the event ended. Even better when they lowered the 4* cover to 900, now I get a cover pretty much every event, especially if I have the boosted 4*s that week. Even if I don't, a good 4* like Thoress or Cyclops or Deadpool can carry me if I've got a way to speed them up (usually IM40). I don't remember the last time I managed to get a 4* in the off season, usually I'd struggle to get the 3* cover, but every off season PvP since they introduced clearance levels has netted me a 4* cover still.

Slice 3 is where it's at if you just want progression and have a workable 4* roster.

I don't shield hop, I don't spend tons of cash on shields at all, I don't use line. I open a PvP trying to get to 300 for the first token, then spend the next day hovering between 500-600 and then 8 hours before close I burn up to 900 and slap an 8 hour shield down and call it a day.

fnedude

Since no one else suggested it, try a different slice.

I usually play S4 (ends 9pm PST) and I rarely get to 900pts (because I can only play in blocks of time straight).

I did S1 for Combined Arms, and got to 900pts by Thursday night, and then gave up (still ended T50 w/ 680pts or so after getting nailed).

Just try to start when it kicks off, then get to 900pts before the last 12hrs.

Dragon_Nexus

fnedude wrote:

Since no one else suggested it, try a different slice.

literally just suggested it in the post before yours, bub =P

GurlBYE

Slices matter less than your roster, as someone with no 4's leveled, I've tried everything said, and I can guarantee half the people recommending things are the ones gladly knocking you lower.

You shouldn't have to do anything but play matches and actually win the get progression. I could understand if this was placement. pvp in this game just doesn't work because the onus of success is placed squarely on top of "what's your roster"

The "meta" is already 4 stars and champed 4 stars. by the time I get there fully covered 5's won't even be enough. The game is designed poorly for competitive things, but is like 75% competitive. The rest rng.

carrion_pigeons

simonsez wrote:

carrion pigeons wrote:

And yet, whenever anyone complains about stuff that directly impacts their ability to compete, the first advice anyone gives is to join LINE.

Why do you equate "it's not mandatory" with "it doesn't help?" I don't see the distinction as being so subtle that it should cause you confusion.

It seems the confusion lies in the definition of mandatory.

I was under the impression that we were talking about competition, and in the context of competition, anything that helps is mandatory, because if you don't do it, someone else will.

If you are instead talking about, uh, trying to get to 900 points, maybe? Then the argument I guess you're making is that time investment is an adequate substitute for communication? I'm not actually sure. What is your recommended time investment to hit 900 without LINE? Six hours? Ten?

snlf25

PvP is like the Legendary Wild West as you see it in movies and on TV. I was within 20 points of my yellow Peggy today with 9 hours to go. I nailed it, nobody had hit me and I got my Peggy. I actually shook and felt a little light headed out of relief as stupid as that sounds. I immediately added my cover because God knows never trust the stability of the game with a prize like that at stake. When I exited out I was immediately met with a window saying somebody had ganked me for 49 points. It's a game of milliseconds sometimes. I'm all the way down to 581 points and I'm still in 36th place. PvP for me is nearly impossible. From 400 to 900 it seems the best I do is 27-32 points per match. Over 40 are rare, thank God I found one today. My Peggy is 2/2/3 Level 147 now.

Pinko_McFly

Line is not that much use before 900. Maybe from 800-900 but often it can be a hindrance because you have a bunch of people you can't hit.
This is of course assuming you are not a front runner, different story there.

If you are having trouble, try climbing earlier. And learn when you need to shield those points.

carrion_pigeons

Pinko McFly wrote:

Line is not that much use before 900. Maybe from 800-900 but often it can be a hindrance because you have a bunch of people you can't hit.

If there's any kind of real tradeoff in the experience that comes with truces, it's clearly in favor of being part of one: this is obvious just from looking at the evidence.

If someone is below 900, then either they're getting hit by people or they aren't. If they aren't, then why would they be complaining about getting hit while trying to hit 900? Clearly they're getting hit. Therefore being part of a truce will reduce the amount of points you lose. The only question left is whether having to skip people costs you points. I'll admit to some ignorance here, but I don't actually see how that could happen. So less hits plus no impact on score seems to add up to a better score to me. There's also the fact that anyone who actually scores 900 can look at the rankings for their bracket and _always_ see more people on LINE around them than not.

I'm not complaining here. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't make sense to downplay the role LINE has on the game, when any schlub with a computer monitor can see it makes a big difference. Why pretend like it isn't defining your experience?

Ebolamonkey84

carrion pigeons wrote:

Pinko McFly wrote:

Line is not that much use before 900. Maybe from 800-900 but often it can be a hindrance because you have a bunch of people you can't hit.

If there's any kind of real tradeoff in the experience that comes with truces, it's clearly in favor of being part of one: this is obvious just from looking at the evidence.

If someone is below 900, then either they're getting hit by people or they aren't. If they aren't, then why would they be complaining about getting hit while trying to hit 900? Clearly they're getting hit. Therefore being part of a truce will reduce the amount of points you lose. The only question left is whether having to skip people costs you points. I'll admit to some ignorance here, but I don't actually see how that could happen. So less hits plus no impact on score seems to add up to a better score to me. There's also the fact that anyone who actually scores 900 can look at the rankings for their bracket and _always_ see more people on LINE around them than not.

I'm not complaining here. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't make sense to downplay the role LINE has on the game, when any schlub with a computer monitor can see it makes a big difference. Why pretend like it isn't defining your experience?

Because of the fact that you sometimes get stuck queuing the same 3-6 people no matter how much you skip, you sometimes reach a point where you only queue low value targets or people you are in a truce with. If you are waiting for people to shield in order to hit them, others can and will choose to hit you. If you were not in a truce, you could have just gotten your points and shielded up.

Pinko_McFly

carrion pigeons wrote:

Pinko McFly wrote:

Line is not that much use before 900. Maybe from 800-900 but often it can be a hindrance because you have a bunch of people you can't hit.

If there's any kind of real tradeoff in the experience that comes with truces, it's clearly in favor of being part of one: this is obvious just from looking at the evidence.

If someone is below 900, then either they're getting hit by people or they aren't. If they aren't, then why would they be complaining about getting hit while trying to hit 900? Clearly they're getting hit. Therefore being part of a truce will reduce the amount of points you lose. The only question left is whether having to skip people costs you points. I'll admit to some ignorance here, but I don't actually see how that could happen. So less hits plus no impact on score seems to add up to a better score to me. There's also the fact that anyone who actually scores 900 can look at the rankings for their bracket and _always_ see more people on LINE around them than not.

I'm not complaining here. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't make sense to downplay the role LINE has on the game, when any schlub with a computer monitor can see it makes a big difference. Why pretend like it isn't defining your experience?

I played for a long time hitting 1k without line with a roster weaker than your current state. So yes it is possible but you need to shield. Yes I'm in a battle chat, can I climb to 800 and sit there unshielded because I'm so truces up noone will hit me, no that's ridiculous. If I'm lucky I'll only get driven down to 600, back into the 400s if I'm not.
Most battle chats have rules anyway that if you don't reply in 10 minutes, you're free to hit so it's not this elaborate shield, at most I'm protected from 20 people while doing my climb to 900 cause not everyone is on at once.
Have you tried pushing early. Try climbing as high as you can with a day left, then shield, line up matches and hop. Repeat as needed to 900.

acescracked

GurlBYE wrote:

The game is designed poorly for competitive things, but is like 75% competitive. The rest rng.

The game is designed to make money. They do that by having the best rosters rule t10. You get the best roster faster by paying for it.

It has seemed to me (might be wrong) that a good chunk of the forum goers forget or choose to ignore that this is mainly (hi steam players) a free to play mobile game. That form of game is pay to win. So...the game is designed perfectly to encourage players to continously spend their money to keep up with the joneses. Requesting a free to play game behave like a console game is an exercise in futility.

OneLastGambit

Calnexin wrote:

alphabeta wrote:

Do you use line? Are you in a PVP alliance with truces? Are you active in battle chats?

This aggravates me.

I'm impressed that the community is there. I'm impressed there's that level of cooperation.

I'm infuriated that if you DON'T participate in that community, you basically can't compete. The in-game chat is certainly not sufficient. You can't even access it while playing a match.

I'm also a transitioning 4* player, but I don't use the communication tools. I barely have enough time to play, much less text my alliance in an outside app to find out when to shield or how many skips I need to find a juicy queue.

There are levels to the game, and I respect that. I've never hit the 4* cover in PvP, and I doubt I ever will. Admitting to myself that I'm "minor league" is a bitter pill to swallow, but that's what it is. If you're not willing to put in that kind of effort, you'll never be top-tier.

It's still mostly fun, though.

My alliance has no treaties. We do not help each other's scores. We never have used cupcakes. We are a t100 (often t50) alliance. Its true that you can make it easier for yourself by shield coordinating but you can achieve your goals without it.

Honestly I think the key to getting regular 900 scores is...

Have one of the following champed:
Imhb
4hor
Cyke

900 Is pretty easy then. Then it's just a matter of timing. People on here say to hop at times when everyone else doe (usually at similar time points t-24hours, t-8hrs etc) so that there's plenty of targets. I don't do this since like you I hate playing at busy times because it's always up and down.

I climb at the following time points:
T-24hrs
T-7hrs
T-4hrs

Less targets so it takes slightly longer but far far fewer hits

acescracked

Calnexin wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Calnexin wrote:

This aggravates me.

I'm impressed that the community is there. I'm impressed there's that level of cooperation.

I'm infuriated that if you DON'T participate in that community, you basically can't compete.

You know what aggravates and infuriates ME? Hyperbolic nonsense, such as this comment. There are plenty of people here who will tell you they do just fine without participating in any sort of shield checking. It's a nice help if you have a weak roster, but a blanket statement like, "you basically can't compete" without it, is total ****.

I truly do not believe this is nonsense.

The max I've ever climbed in PvP is ~ 700. Once I get to that point, I'm seeing either rosters I can't beat, of those I can that are worth 25 points and will cost me health packs. If I try to hit them, I lose more points on retals and random hits than I gain during the match.

If I understand the system at all, the community aspect helps a great deal - it keeps track of the rosters out there, how many points are available, that sort of thing. If you're not in that communication, you have no idea. I know vaguely that points increase over time because people earn points and are therefore worth more when you hit them. That's it. That's all I've got. I don't have access to the minutiae required to climb higher - as soon as I try, I get hit for more points than I earn in the match I'm using.

Without the community tools, it's guesswork and luck. And that's fine. That's on me for not participating. It doesn't make it any less frustrating.

No hyperbole whatsoever. That's how it is.

The bold part...I just...where do I even start? I mean.. you are just completely guessing and landed in the wrong zipcode. I never thought PvP could confuse people so much.

OneLastGambit

acescracked wrote:

Calnexin wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Calnexin wrote:

This aggravates me.

I'm impressed that the community is there. I'm impressed there's that level of cooperation.

I'm infuriated that if you DON'T participate in that community, you basically can't compete.

You know what aggravates and infuriates ME? Hyperbolic nonsense, such as this comment. There are plenty of people here who will tell you they do just fine without participating in any sort of shield checking. It's a nice help if you have a weak roster, but a blanket statement like, "you basically can't compete" without it, is total ****.

I truly do not believe this is nonsense.

The max I've ever climbed in PvP is ~ 700. Once I get to that point, I'm seeing either rosters I can't beat, of those I can that are worth 25 points and will cost me health packs. If I try to hit them, I lose more points on retals and random hits than I gain during the match.

If I understand the system at all, the community aspect helps a great deal - it keeps track of the rosters out there, how many points are available, that sort of thing. If you're not in that communication, you have no idea. I know vaguely that points increase over time because people earn points and are therefore worth more when you hit them. That's it. That's all I've got. I don't have access to the minutiae required to climb higher - as soon as I try, I get hit for more points than I earn in the match I'm using.

Without the community tools, it's guesswork and luck. And that's fine. That's on me for not participating. It doesn't make it any less frustrating.

No hyperbole whatsoever. That's how it is.

The bold part...I just...where do I even start? I mean.. you are just completely guessing and landed in the wrong zipcode. I never thought PvP could confuse people so much.

100% with you there aces.

To reiterate.... You do not need to communicate to score 900. You just need at least one champed decent 4*. I never coordinate hops and regularly hit 900 some in my alliance don't even talk to our own alliance and hit way above 1200. It helps but it's definitely not necessary. If you're making your goals then one of 2 things is happening...

1. Your climbing strategy is wrong
2. Your roster is not quite good enough yet

snlf25

snlf25 wrote:

PvP is like the Legendary Wild West as you see it in movies and on TV. I was within 20 points of my yellow Peggy today with 9 hours to go. I nailed it, nobody had hit me and I got my Peggy. I actually shook and felt a little light headed out of relief as stupid as that sounds. I immediately added my cover because God knows never trust the stability of the game with a prize like that at stake. When I exited out I was immediately met with a window saying somebody had ganked me for 49 points. It's a game of milliseconds sometimes. I'm all the way down to 581 points and I'm still in 36th place. PvP for me is nearly impossible. From 400 to 900 it seems the best I do is 27-32 points per match. Over 40 are rare, thank God I found one today. My Peggy is 2/2/3 Level 147 now.

I just pulled another Peggy from a Legendary! 4 Peggys in 4 days!!! OMGOMGWTFBBQ!:shock:

StarScream

Can't even play this. I have a grand total of two characters over level 30 and I can only play against teams that by far outclass me. People say to play PVP because the rewards can be good, but if I play it, the game will only take health packs from me. Because there are in-game purchases, I can only assume they want to make money off this game. However since nothing is geared towards new players, they will lose new players faster than they hook them. That is bad business.

snlf25

StarScream wrote:

Can't even play this. I have a grand total of two characters over level 30 and I can only play against teams that by far outclass me. People say to play PVP because the rewards can be good, but if I play it, the game will only take health packs from me. Because there are in-game purchases, I can only assume they want to make money off this game. However since nothing is geared towards new players, they will lose new players faster than they hook them. That is bad business.

New players need to make their bones in PvE same as I did, same as all veterans did, same as it has always been. Do the PvE as far as you can, do as much of the DDQ as you can everyday and horde your CP and Legendary Tokens until you are ready because a 5* right now will screw you. You can place very very high in PvE because of your scaling right now because yes, it is geared for noobers. Don't waste your Hero Points! A new player should only spend those on roster slots. Health packs are an utter gigantic waste for you right now, so are shields. Never use them to buy covers either, you will soon find you will get covers 10 times faster than you can even use them due to ISO shortage.