Why I hate PVP

Punisher5784

Qubort wrote:

Punisher5784 wrote:

alphabeta wrote:

Do you use line? Are you in a PVP alliance with truces? Are you active in battle chats?

I hate this. We should not have to sign Peace Treaties just to play PVP. This is why I prefer PVE. I don't have to use LINE or any other method to progress or place well. I just want to play the game and earn rewards.

Line CAN be a big help but is not needed to get to 900+. I often jump in a different slice than my alliance and have zero communication with anyone and can hit 900 no problem. I'm also have 3 4star champed.

My advice is to start early, less people to snipe you and more time to climb. Shield around high 700 and then when you hop you have a chance to get to 900. Don't use the teams that were there when you shielded. Their point value can be greatly reduced by the time you get to them.

Lastly, this game is based on who you have. If I see someone out with IW or Electra I'm gonna hit them. I know that sucks because you've poured time and ISO into them but the truth is both of those are punching bags.

Hi Qubort, I think you're confusing me with the OP. I already know how to score in PVP and have used the advice you stated above without LINE. I just have a strong dislike for the entire PVP system and would like to see a complete overhaul to something that is fair but still challenging and rewarding to everyone. This will likely never happen which is why I prefer PVE over PVP. PVP players can continue to tell PVE players that PVP is quicker and better but with all the needed coordination, constant watching and shielding, it seems more time consuming and stressful to me. I am fine hitting 575 for 10 CP and calling it a day.

Qubort

Punisher5784 wrote:

Qubort wrote:

Punisher5784 wrote:

alphabeta wrote:

Do you use line? Are you in a PVP alliance with truces? Are you active in battle chats?

I hate this. We should not have to sign Peace Treaties just to play PVP. This is why I prefer PVE. I don't have to use LINE or any other method to progress or place well. I just want to play the game and earn rewards.

Line CAN be a big help but is not needed to get to 900+. I often jump in a different slice than my alliance and have zero communication with anyone and can hit 900 no problem. I'm also have 3 4star champed.

My advice is to start early, less people to snipe you and more time to climb. Shield around high 700 and then when you hop you have a chance to get to 900. Don't use the teams that were there when you shielded. Their point value can be greatly reduced by the time you get to them.

Lastly, this game is based on who you have. If I see someone out with IW or Electra I'm gonna hit them. I know that sucks because you've poured time and ISO into them but the truth is both of those are punching bags.

Hi Qubort, I think you're confusing me with the OP. I already know how to score in PVP and have used the advice you stated above without LINE. I just have a strong dislike for the entire PVP system and would like to see a complete overhaul to something that is fair but still challenging and rewarding to everyone. This will likely never happen which is why I prefer PVE over PVP. PVP players can continue to tell PVE players that PVP is quicker and better but with all the needed coordination, constant watching and shielding, it seems more time consuming and stressful to me. I am fine hitting 575 for 10 CP and calling it a day.

I knew you weren't OP, just used your quote for the general notion coordination is needed. The advice part I guess should've been in a separate post.

Polares

Pinko McFly wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Calnexin wrote:

This aggravates me.

I'm impressed that the community is there. I'm impressed there's that level of cooperation.

I'm infuriated that if you DON'T participate in that community, you basically can't compete.

You know what aggravates and infuriates ME? Hyperbolic nonsense, such as this comment. There are plenty of people here who will tell you they do just fine without participating in any sort of shield checking. It's a nice help if you have a weak roster, but a blanket statement like, "you basically can't compete" without it, is total ****.

I am going to concur with simon and can speak from experience.
A year ago I was not on line and hitting 1000 progression every PvP for about 6 months straight. Earning the 4 star cover and getting decent placement. This was all done without the benefit of cupcakes or any outside coordination.
You do have to shield though, sure it sucks, but it makes life a lot easier.
Once you are shielded you need to watch your leaderboard and people around you, check in regularly to see who is shielded and if you see someone with a high score hopping, try to q them up.

What I don't like about Line communication are truces between Alliances, this should be 'forbidden'. People who don't use Line and smaller alliances can't do truces, so if a bunch of people (specially the big alliances with numbers) agree on not hitting each other, that means they are going to hit more the people from other alliances and not using Line. That is unfair in my opinion. But a part from that, people scoring higher just helps everybody score higher, so in the end it is good for everybody (if placement rewards were better then this would be a bigger issue).

carrion_pigeons

simonsez wrote:

Calnexin wrote:

This aggravates me.

I'm impressed that the community is there. I'm impressed there's that level of cooperation.

I'm infuriated that if you DON'T participate in that community, you basically can't compete.

You know what aggravates and infuriates ME? Hyperbolic nonsense, such as this comment. There are plenty of people here who will tell you they do just fine without participating in any sort of shield checking. It's a nice help if you have a weak roster, but a blanket statement like, "you basically can't compete" without it, is total ****.

And yet, whenever anyone complains about stuff that directly impacts their ability to compete, the first advice anyone gives is to join LINE.

Calnexin

simonsez wrote:

Calnexin wrote:

This aggravates me.

I'm impressed that the community is there. I'm impressed there's that level of cooperation.

I'm infuriated that if you DON'T participate in that community, you basically can't compete.

You know what aggravates and infuriates ME? Hyperbolic nonsense, such as this comment. There are plenty of people here who will tell you they do just fine without participating in any sort of shield checking. It's a nice help if you have a weak roster, but a blanket statement like, "you basically can't compete" without it, is total ****.

I truly do not believe this is nonsense.

The max I've ever climbed in PvP is ~ 700. Once I get to that point, I'm seeing either rosters I can't beat, of those I can that are worth 25 points and will cost me health packs. If I try to hit them, I lose more points on retals and random hits than I gain during the match.

If I understand the system at all, the community aspect helps a great deal - it keeps track of the rosters out there, how many points are available, that sort of thing. If you're not in that communication, you have no idea. I know vaguely that points increase over time because people earn points and are therefore worth more when you hit them. That's it. That's all I've got. I don't have access to the minutiae required to climb higher - as soon as I try, I get hit for more points than I earn in the match I'm using.

Without the community tools, it's guesswork and luck. And that's fine. That's on me for not participating. It doesn't make it any less frustrating.

No hyperbole whatsoever. That's how it is.

Calnexin

Dartmaster01 wrote:

I only have one champed 4* (thor), don't coordinate with anyone in or out of the game and have no problem hitting 900 whenever I feel like it.

Honest question - what is your time investment in this process?

I feel like it takes ~ 1 hr to get to ~ 400-500. After that, I'm playing 20-30 pt matches against teams that will require multiple health packs, if I can beat them at all.

TxMoose

Calnexin wrote:

If I understand the system at all, the community aspect helps a great deal - it keeps track of the rosters out there, how many points are available, that sort of thing. If you're not in that communication, you have no idea.

that is all in the battle chats yes, but 1) tons of people like me that do use line don't even use battle chats and 2) unless you can take down a champ 5*, there aren't a lot of BC options (that I know of - I don't use them much and haven't shopped them). I need to ask...how many slices have you tried? how many different strategies/climb times have you tried in each slice? how many shields are you willing to go through in a week? I typically go through about 9 shields. i'll repeat what I said earlier:

TxMoose wrote:

keep improving your roster and keep trying different slices (any except 2 are decent points, some better than others but that changes) and strategies and eventually something will work for you.

if what you're doing isn't working, change it up. took me a while to figure out a strategy that worked in my RL schedule and provided points. it really helps timing your climb at a time when other big boys do theirs so you have points available. one downside to mmr is you need points to be queue-able (not a word, I know) for you, so for you, you need early-mid 4* transitioners who score some points. that might not present in every slice at every possible climbing time, so change things up and hopefully it gets better.

also. don't judge anything by the offseason events or the jacked up anni events like bff. those were awful for most everyone.

Dartmaster01

Calnexin wrote:

Dartmaster01 wrote:

I only have one champed 4* (thor), don't coordinate with anyone in or out of the game and have no problem hitting 900 whenever I feel like it.

Honest question - what is your time investment in this process?

I feel like it takes ~ 1 hr to get to ~ 400-500. After that, I'm playing 20-30 pt matches against teams that will require multiple health packs, if I can beat them at all.

About 3 hours at the most.

TetsujinOni

I've just gone through this having had the most unholy RNGesus luck ever. I have an 11-cover OML and just started my second batch of championed 4*s - up to 3!

Your OML needs to be fed all of the ISO you can scrape up, immediately.

The increase in your scaling, compared to your existing top 3 at 270+, will NOT harm you, and 3 yellow means that OML tanking is better.

OML/Peggy/40 makes other teams feel clumsy when you have to play them, admittedly....

Calnexin

TxMoose wrote:

I need to ask...how many slices have you tried? how many different strategies/climb times have you tried in each slice? how many shields are you willing to go through in a week?

TxMoose wrote:

keep improving your roster and keep trying different slices (any except 2 are decent points, some better than others but that changes) and strategies and eventually something will work for you.

if what you're doing isn't working, change it up. took me a while to figure out a strategy that worked in my RL schedule and provided points. it really helps timing your climb at a time when other big boys do theirs so you have points available. one downside to mmr is you need points to be queue-able (not a word, I know) for you, so for you, you need early-mid 4* transitioners who score some points. that might not present in every slice at every possible climbing time, so change things up and hopefully it gets better.

also. don't judge anything by the offseason events or the jacked up anni events like bff. those were awful for most everyone.

Slice 4 is most convenient for my schedule, but I kept hitting a wall ~ 500. I've since tried 5, 2, and 1. I can't claim I've given them a fair shot - playtime is limited. The climb to 500-600 seems easier but there are no matches worth >30 after that.

I don't generally shield because there doesn't seem to a a point in it. I'll use a shield when I reach a placement rank worth keeping (eg, shielded @ 3 in a recent event to earn #5), but given the effort involved to get higher... I just don't have the time for that with the points I'm seeing. I'm already spending way more time on the game than I want to, and it would require several more hours' investment to get to the 4* cover. I have to sleep at some point, and I'm constantly thinking to myself that I could be catching up on my console backlog instead of striving for an elite token that will advance my 2* farm one level.

You're absolutely right - I have no idea where or when the points are available. PvE I don't try for placement - just take whatever has the most time remaining when I'm ready to start. PvP could benefit a lot from a late start in an odd window.

This, once again, makes me feel like I'm investing way too much effort. I can't schedule my life around the game, but that's what's required just to keep up.

Well, that or a lot of cash. I've got more important things to do with the latter.

And the former. But... 5*!!!

HaywireII

I would at least level the OML to be the same level as the 4* champs (271 or whatever yours are at). That should be a little more health and damage and shouldn't affect MMR since there are already higher level characters.

I'm not using any communication myself but I'm trying to get to 825+ then hitting my 3 hour or 8 hour shield and queuing up two targets to get me to 900 so I can attack then shield again during a regular season event. I've been able to end the event at around 920ish points with only 2 shields during several events last season.

simonsez

Calnexin wrote:

I truly do not believe this is nonsense.

The max I've ever climbed in PvP is ~ 700. Once I get to that point, I'm seeing either rosters I can't beat, of those I can that are worth 25 points and will cost me health packs. If I try to hit them, I lose more points on retals and random hits than I gain during the match.

Well, we've already had people chime in who claim to have similar (or worse) rosters than you, who don't use LINE, who fare far better. So rather than blame lack of LINE, maybe it'd be better to emulate their tactics.

simonsez

carrion pigeons wrote:

And yet, whenever anyone complains about stuff that directly impacts their ability to compete, the first advice anyone gives is to join LINE.

Why do you equate "it's not mandatory" with "it doesn't help?" I don't see the distinction as being so subtle that it should cause you confusion.

BigBZ32

OP, Combined Arms not going to be friendly to your roster. The 5* rosters are all down to everyone else's MMR and it's offseason where scores are typically lower. You're going to be a target if you are not using Peggy or Rulk and even then they're not completely safe.

As for as advice to help with your 4* transition, luckily you do have 575 now. This will be the biggest help to transition where I wish I had that. Do you climb early or late? When I was in 3* land I would start with a day out and then climb to my sweet spot, I think it was 450-500 or so. With 3-8hrs left, I'd make my climb to 900 (1000 when I was at that level) and then shield out rest of event. Back then I wasn't even encountering CC's and was able to do this. No shield hopping at all, just a single shield at end. Also, if you're shield hopping, make sure you hop outside the busy times. Usually, that's at the 3 and 8 hour intervals.

spiderpool

Calnexin wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Calnexin wrote:

This aggravates me.

I'm impressed that the community is there. I'm impressed there's that level of cooperation.

I'm infuriated that if you DON'T participate in that community, you basically can't compete.

You know what aggravates and infuriates ME? Hyperbolic nonsense, such as this comment. There are plenty of people here who will tell you they do just fine without participating in any sort of shield checking. It's a nice help if you have a weak roster, but a blanket statement like, "you basically can't compete" without it, is total ****.

I truly do not believe this is nonsense.

The max I've ever climbed in PvP is ~ 700. Once I get to that point, I'm seeing either rosters I can't beat, of those I can that are worth 25 points and will cost me health packs. If I try to hit them, I lose more points on retals and random hits than I gain during the match.

If I understand the system at all, the community aspect helps a great deal - it keeps track of the rosters out there, how many points are available, that sort of thing. If you're not in that communication, you have no idea. I know vaguely that points increase over time because people earn points and are therefore worth more when you hit them. That's it. That's all I've got. I don't have access to the minutiae required to climb higher - as soon as I try, I get hit for more points than I earn in the match I'm using.

Without the community tools, it's guesswork and luck. And that's fine. That's on me for not participating. It doesn't make it any less frustrating.

No hyperbole whatsoever. That's how it is.

I'm also a transitioning 4 star player, just recently champed my first one a couple months ago and two more this month. Working on a fourth now. I don't use line at all other than to talk to my alliance mates.

I used to be able to hit the 4 star progression about a fourth of the time when I had no champed 4 stars and the bar was set at 1000 but I could almost always get close, like 900 ish. Now that they changed it to 900 I haven't failed to get the four star progression once other an off season event or two that I chose to skip.

Again this is with no use of line other than chit chat with alliance mates and never using cup cakes when they were around unless I stumbled on one coincidentally. Out side communication may help but is in no way necessary to do well in pvp.

In combined arms I'm currently #4 in my bracket with a score of 1077 with less than 8 hours to go.

Darmock13

BigBZ32 wrote:

OP, Combined Arms not going to be friendly to your roster. The 5* rosters are all down to everyone else's MMR and it's offseason where scores are typically lower. You're going to be a target if you are not using Peggy or Rulk and even then they're not completely safe.

As for as advice to help with your 4* transition, luckily you do have 575 now. This will be the biggest help to transition where I wish I had that. Do you climb early or late? When I was in 3* land I would start with a day out and then climb to my sweet spot, I think it was 450-500 or so. With 3-8hrs left, I'd make my climb to 900 (1000 when I was at that level) and then shield out rest of event. Back then I wasn't even encountering CC's and was able to do this. No shield hopping at all, just a single shield at end. Also, if you're shield hopping, make sure you hop outside the busy times. Usually, that's at the 3 and 8 hour intervals.

Yeah, I'd agree with this advise and maybe even emphasize it a bit more:

The weaker your roster, the sooner you need to push for 900. Unless you are running a super-whale max-champed 5* roster, you absolutely cannot play in the last 3-4 hours of a tournament and expect to make progress (with a less developed roster, that means not even one match). You will get stomped.

For reference, I have a solid 4* roster (21 of them champed, working towards 5*s). I dont use LINE (although I try to be courteous to other players w/o actually coordinating). When going for a cover reward I really want, I try to finish up with at least 6-12 hours left (sometimes even more if I'm too busy to play later), then turtle up.

Sure it costs more to shield that much, but it sure beats not making any progress.

Evilgenius_9

I was trying my push 16 hours before the end of the event. Even though it is best for my schedule, maybe I need tk try a different slice than 4 as well.

Bowgentle

Evilgenius_9 wrote:

I was trying my push 16 hours before the end of the event. Even though it is best for my schedule, maybe I need tk try a different slice than 4 as well.

Whatever you do, stay out of S2.
Trust us on that.

Darmock13

Evilgenius_9 wrote:

I was trying my push 16 hours before the end of the event. Even though it is best for my schedule, maybe I need tk try a different slice than 4 as well.

With a mostly 3* roster, you'll need to shield-hop more once you get over 600-700 points, even with 16 hours left. Try to win a few, shield up, come back later, try some more. Dont go for it in "one big push"

Once you get over 800, you really cant stay unshielded for more than 1-2 matches, if you're running with 3*s/weaker 4*s.. you're just too juicy for the Vets to pass up.

jackstar0

Bowgentle wrote:

Evilgenius_9 wrote:

I was trying my push 16 hours before the end of the event. Even though it is best for my schedule, maybe I need tk try a different slice than 4 as well.

Whatever you do, stay out of S2.
Trust us on that.

This makes me ask... is there a current ranking of the slices of PvP these days?

I'm most often joining 4 as it seemed to have enough points to go around, but these days it seems less robust.