Are Heroic PvE's more fun than we like to admit?

13

Comments

  • JackTenrec
    JackTenrec Posts: 808 Critical Contributor
    Fighting scaled Juggernaut, particularly 4x for progression/CP is annoying drudgery.
  • Tee
    Tee Posts: 231 Tile Toppler
    Mechahamster wrote:
    They exist because a small usable roster with bad synergy eats up health packs so they make more sweet sales from them.

    Even back when my roster wasn't up to snuff, I barely used any health packs. Most of the time I just didn't have the roster for it and skipped it.

    After I got to where I had three 'good' characters.. I just waited for them to heal up.
    Like I said, there's no reason to burn health packs when the rewards are the exact same as they would be for a normal PvE.
  • Jarvind
    Jarvind Posts: 1,684 Chairperson of the Boards
    aesthetocyst wrote:
    Still waiting for a "Villainous" pve in which the concept is flipped. icon_twisted.gif

    What would this be? You get a loaner for every character in the game? I'm into it.
  • madsalad
    madsalad Posts: 815 Critical Contributor
    aesthetocyst wrote:
    madsalad wrote:
    Bowgentle wrote:
    madsalad wrote:
    I would be much happier with Heroics if the scaling was based off of the the characters that were allowed in the Heroic and not your entire roster.

    If I am wrong and the scaling IS only based on available characters I will take it back, but I'm pretty sure scaling is including my leveled 5* characters who are on the bench during a Heroic.
    5*s are not considered.

    My scaling in non-heroics is 430, my highest node tops out at 327 in sub 1.

    I stand corrected. The scaling does still include all of your 4* and below characters that happened to be locked out though, correct? So, if you just happen to have a bunch of champed 4*s that don't happen to be included in the lineup for this Heroic, you're SOL?

    No, characters that are locked out for the whole events are not included in scaling calc.

    The trouble with roster locks and scaling comes in when certain key characters appear on highly scaled nodes.

    Like Wolverine or Jean showing up on Hard nodes, locking out commonly held 5*s, and appearing at 5* scaling ... against which those 5*s can't be used. Even though the scaling for the node, and the whole event, was based on those 5*s being rostered.

    The more you know.
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,580 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spiritclaw wrote:
    babinro wrote:
    ONE HUGE CAVEAT: Ensure each tier has solid rainbow color coverage along with characters roles that don't overlap too heavily.

    The fact that they don't do this is what annoys me in heroics. Everyone seems to want to contribute red or pink this time around!

    They should do that for 3* and 4*, but by this point they should just allow in all 1* and 2*s so that weak rosters can take part in the event okay.
  • Bondidude
    Bondidude Posts: 46 Just Dropped In
    Usually I don't think that they're too awfully bad. The roster restrictions aren't fun but they're not super painful.

    This one, for me at least, has been pretty rough. My scaling is partially based around a 3* Daken champ. Guess who is locked out of several of the hardest nodes on day 2 and parts of day 1 as well? Yep! 3* Daken. Also Sentry has made appearances on several nodes and he's a boosted 3* as well. Locked out for those. Too bad, so sad.

    If they're going to run Heroics then they should be more careful about who they are boosting so that some of your best characters aren't getting locked out constantly because they appear in nodes. It seems like this happens all the time where a 2* or 3* will be boosted and then locked out for this reason. Very frustrating, especially when they're a mainstay in one of your important teams that you're restricted into or they're one of your highest boosted characters and your scaling is very dependent on them.
  • Calnexin
    Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
    Not really, no. I'd have more fun if my 4* roster were better developed. My 3*s are generally higher level after the boost, so I'm mostly using those, but it's tough to make a rainbow team, and even tougher one that's efficient or with any kind of synergy. After blazing through nodes with heavy hitters like Thor, OML, and Hulkbuster, picking away at the opponent with Squirrel Girl and Psylocke feels like a real slog. I didn't finish my 4 clears before going to work, so I'm asking myself whether I REALLY need that Chulk cover.
  • Mechahamster
    Mechahamster Posts: 237 Tile Toppler
    Tee wrote:
    Mechahamster wrote:
    They exist because a small usable roster with bad synergy eats up health packs so they make more sweet sales from them.

    Even back when my roster wasn't up to snuff, I barely used any health packs. Most of the time I just didn't have the roster for it and skipped it.

    After I got to where I had three 'good' characters.. I just waited for them to heal up.
    Like I said, there's no reason to burn health packs when the rewards are the exact same as they would be for a normal PvE.

    People have different playtimes, schedules and priorities. What works for you might not work for everyone.
  • Orion
    Orion Posts: 1,295 Chairperson of the Boards
    Eh, I find the heroics a welcome respite from having to use OML/SS/BSS all of the time. The last heroic I had 4Thor/Antman/X23 all champed, but that meant my scaling was high and I had to use those 3 on most nodes. Made it a little less fun.

    This time I have Quake champed, but the other 4*s are at a level where they match my boosted 3*s. So I've been using a lot more characters. In the first sub alone I used Quake, CMags, Squirrel Girl, SWitch, 3Daken and 3Pool in non-essential roles. My go-to team has been SWitch/3Pool/Quake. SWitch/PX is also a possibility that I haven't tried yet.

    I guess I just like the fact that I have options instead of being stuck having to use 5*s.
  • kobu
    kobu Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
    I like them more and more as my roster expands. I don't mind not being able to use the few 3* I've champed if they aren't in the bunch. I find it pretty fun to find combos I wouldn't have thought of right away otherwise (Drax Black + Wanda's countdown for example). It's different and good in my book, even if color mix isn't the best a lot of times.
  • thanos8587
    thanos8587 Posts: 653
    they get much easier as your roster expands certainly. does that make them more "fun"? NO.
    they are a time sucking grind depending on the quality of the available characters.
    i will say i prefer them to ANY seven day event though, but theres nothing fun about them.
  • snlf25
    snlf25 Posts: 947 Critical Contributor
    No, nothing about Heroics is fun. Your roster is limited, they are too hard, they are stale as it gets as these events have been around for three years now. They are the very definition of a boring unfun slog of a grind. The worst sin of Heroics? The Stinking Dark Avengers! My God does anybody want to fight these **** characters anymore?! ****!

    The only reason I played these last two is because I desperately want ISO and to top off on Hero Points before the anniversary. The ISO crunch became even more desperate this morning because I pulled my 13th cover for 4clops after defeating Boobstone and I want to get him championed and respeced before I get my 14th from 3clops. Progression is also going to get me my 13th Starlord and there is a chance in the rebalancing that he might not absolutely suck anymore someday soon.
  • rkd80
    rkd80 Posts: 376
    Lovely how the forumites **** over a thoughtful post, but babinro is correct - heroics are MORE fun.

    I would not be surprised that a certain subset of the population complains of:

    a) Using same team over and over
    b) Heroics

    Which is entirely contradictory. Heroics are in fact the best way this game can encourage the leveling of the entire roster. Otherwise is just your best two 5* or 4* all day long until your face melts off.

    More heroics! THe only thing they need to fix is:

    a) Fix the enemy variety, juggs is annoying as ****
    b) As Aesthocyst correctly pointed out, fix the scaling on those nodes where there is a lockout.

    Otherwise limited roster events should be everywhere as they add deep strategy and rewards people for building our rosters.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think my enjoyment of heroics swings wildly with the boost list. the last one. juggs. no thanks. I played the first sub to t50 and I said screw that and I don't think I touched it again. this current one (DA) - I'm enjoying much much more. switch drax quake are cleaning house. if you don't have any accelerators or any synergy teams, no thanks. you need one of: im40, switch, fist, hood, and to a lesser extent, loki, mnmags or obw. dealing with cds is a need too, so one of jean, quake, cap help (cap needs acceleration).
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,579 Chairperson of the Boards
    I have a really broad roster, and I will say I enjoy them about the same as other PVEs - so enough to play them but not play them really competitively. Even in the other PVEs, though, I tend to play with the boosted characters, so the only thing that makes the heroics more distinctive to me is that I play with more of my 3*s.

    The only thing I really dislike about them is a number of them have a long slog on the main board before you can open the sub. If you want to do a full node clear of, say, the required nodes then you frequently have to pound at it for an hour.

    This isn't true of all of them, though.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    I was thinking "maybe he's right", until I got to the node with Hood and yellow goons. Really makes you miss 5* match damage... a lot.
  • Jam_Adams
    Jam_Adams Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
    the one things that drives me nuts on heroics hasn't been mentioned yet (apologies if it has and I just missed it)

    yes - roster limitation suck
    yes - heroics are repetitive and have been for a long time
    yes - the boost lists sometimes suck
    yes - the dark avengers suck

    BUT the one thing I hate is the fact the main has SO MANY nodes you have to play through to unlock each sub. most events have only one or two you must defeat to unlock the sub (and some have none!). but heroics all have at least 4 nodes, and the last one on this event has five. i feel like I'm halfway burnt out by the time I unlock the sub, and sometimes half of my limited roster is significantly hurt by that time. it's the equivalent of starting the timer on one node, or half of a single clear of a sub. that's what makes it such a grindy slog for me
  • stochasticism
    stochasticism Posts: 1,181 Chairperson of the Boards
    Heroics being fun is a function of one thing alone. Does the group of randomly selected characters make the event a slog or something you can do fast? This heroic has a great set of boosted. When you get a heroic that has no ap generators, no nukes, no high damage AoE or no special tile creation then it's going to be miserable.
  • cardoor
    cardoor Posts: 185 Tile Toppler
    Jam_Adams wrote:
    ...

    BUT the one thing I hate is the fact the main has SO MANY nodes you have to play through to unlock each sub. most events have only one or two you must defeat to unlock the sub (and some have none!). but heroics all have at least 4 nodes, and the last one on this event has five. i feel like I'm halfway burnt out by the time I unlock the sub, and sometimes half of my limited roster is significantly hurt by that time. it's the equivalent of starting the timer on one node, or half of a single clear of a sub. that's what makes it such a grindy slog for me


    The majority of those nodes get the green check mark after one match so they are usually very easy XP at least.
  • El Satanno
    El Satanno Posts: 1,005 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm kinda with Babs here. Like everyone else that has managed to get two (or more) 5* champs, those two become the only characters you can use. I don't mind so much, but I can certainly see how others get tired of it. As Babs mentioned, by the time you're at that point you generally have a very deep roster of champions that never see the light of day. What it ends up meaning to players with this kind of roster depth is the inverse of what many others lament: You're given the opportunity to use some of the rest of your roster.

    As I've been thinking about this, it occurs to me that the concept of Heroic events is good. It just needs more attention than your standard Story event. Obviously a properly selected mix of characters is paramount, as trying to clear everything with Loki, Falcon, and Mr. Fantastic is going to be less than fun. The enemies you face also need to be carefully designed to be challenging without being too hard or too easy for the available roster: For-real Carnage + red feeders = no fun. On a broader scale I think Heroic events should be more like Gauntlet and run independently of whatever other Story event is going on. "If you have the mix of characters necessary, try your hand at a run through the Heroic event for some great one-off prizes!"

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