I so love that psylocke is needed for this
Comments
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klingsor wrote:kermitk50 wrote:klingsor wrote:Well the game is P2w, because they have required characters in use for tournaments and events that don't come from standard tokens and cannot be gained from prologue and the only way to get these characters is to already be an expert player or...have $50... The more they introduce 3* weekly the more the P2W aspect is reinforced. I'm fine with it, because I see every new char as DLC, and I don't feel obligated to have a maxed Psylocke, BP or LazyThor to have fun. I'm saying let's not pretend this game isn't P2W in it's current design and let's make the game better in spite of it. </snip>
Thats not really true at all. I have not spent a dime and have started to get quite a few 3* covers, including a couple Dooms (current "locked node" needed guy), and other covers I am building up quite nicely. If I try I can place top 25 or so in most PVE or PVP events - high enough to get a new 3* cover. Its all about taking advantage of the rewards when available, then waiting for the next time they come around. If you missed Psylock last time (I did), well guess we are just going to have to wait until they offer it as a reward again! Does not mean I have to pay to win. Hell, Im not even sure I know what you mean by "win". If you mean "Place well enough to get the rewards you want", then the statement is absolute bunk. Is it means "Place 1st", its still not true - just significantly harder. But hell, not everyone can place 1st every event - thats kind of the whole point of a competitive game. Participation trophys dont mean anything - but the three covers of Hood I got from placing 2nd in a PVP event - now THAT I cherish!
Look I agree with the spirit of your post, saying that if you play smart you can do well. I'm sure a lot of people have maxed one or two 3* characters by not spending a dime... but when you see people with pages of maxed characters, do you think they got there by just being super good at match 3? When I say it's essentially designed to be P2W, I mean it from a game design and economic point of view. Anyone can beat a particular fight. What I call winning is not a particular encounter with bad AI, but rather winning tournaments and now, winning alliance competitions. If you don't think there is a correlation between the biggest spenders and the most success in-game, well I have a bridge to sell you.
I'm a F2P player. All it takes is effort and smart play.0 -
jozier wrote:klingsor wrote:kermitk50 wrote:klingsor wrote:Well the game is P2w, because they have required characters in use for tournaments and events that don't come from standard tokens and cannot be gained from prologue and the only way to get these characters is to already be an expert player or...have $50... The more they introduce 3* weekly the more the P2W aspect is reinforced. I'm fine with it, because I see every new char as DLC, and I don't feel obligated to have a maxed Psylocke, BP or LazyThor to have fun. I'm saying let's not pretend this game isn't P2W in it's current design and let's make the game better in spite of it. </snip>
Thats not really true at all. I have not spent a dime and have started to get quite a few 3* covers, including a couple Dooms (current "locked node" needed guy), and other covers I am building up quite nicely. If I try I can place top 25 or so in most PVE or PVP events - high enough to get a new 3* cover. Its all about taking advantage of the rewards when available, then waiting for the next time they come around. If you missed Psylock last time (I did), well guess we are just going to have to wait until they offer it as a reward again! Does not mean I have to pay to win. Hell, Im not even sure I know what you mean by "win". If you mean "Place well enough to get the rewards you want", then the statement is absolute bunk. Is it means "Place 1st", its still not true - just significantly harder. But hell, not everyone can place 1st every event - thats kind of the whole point of a competitive game. Participation trophys dont mean anything - but the three covers of Hood I got from placing 2nd in a PVP event - now THAT I cherish!
Look I agree with the spirit of your post, saying that if you play smart you can do well. I'm sure a lot of people have maxed one or two 3* characters by not spending a dime... but when you see people with pages of maxed characters, do you think they got there by just being super good at match 3? When I say it's essentially designed to be P2W, I mean it from a game design and economic point of view. Anyone can beat a particular fight. What I call winning is not a particular encounter with bad AI, but rather winning tournaments and now, winning alliance competitions. If you don't think there is a correlation between the biggest spenders and the most success in-game, well I have a bridge to sell you.
I'm a F2P player. All it takes is effort and smart play.
Do you disagree with my basic point that there is a bias towards P2W? Case in point, I don't have a Lazy Thor cover, and now I'm at a strategic disadvantage for the last leg of the Simulation PVE event. Well, I could pray really hard for him to come out of a standard token and..wait...he isn't in the Standard Tokens at all! Well, How do I solve my dilemma? I can buy a 10X Pack being "coincidentally" offered in the Thor Tourney right now! This new Thor tourney only exists to maximize a return on the Lazy Thor character (which I am trying hard to boycott.)0 -
klingsor wrote:Case in point, I don't have a Lazy Thor cover, and now I'm at a strategic disadvantage for the last leg of the Simulation PVE event. Well, I could pray really hard for him to come out of a standard token and..wait...he isn't in the Standard Tokens at all! Well, How do I solve my dilemma? I can buy a 10X Pack being "coincidentally" offered in the Thor Tourney right now! This new Thor tourney only exists to maximize a return on the Lazy Thor character (which I am trying hard to boycott.)
Lazy Thor was offered in three tournaments, and all it took was a top 100 finish in the Juggs heroic to at least get one cover.
And he's also in the highly trained tokens, although pulling one is up to the mercy of the RNG gods.
I completely miscalculated the first Juggs, but made top 200 in the Hulk event and top 2 in the second Juggs, and pulled another one from a highly trained token, so I'm sitting on a 3/2/3 Lazy Thor without spending a dime on him - lazy, as is proper.
Effort & smart play (even if I could have been a little smarter and also timed the first Juggs better).0 -
Bowgentle wrote:klingsor wrote:Case in point, I don't have a Lazy Thor cover, and now I'm at a strategic disadvantage for the last leg of the Simulation PVE event. Well, I could pray really hard for him to come out of a standard token and..wait...he isn't in the Standard Tokens at all! Well, How do I solve my dilemma? I can buy a 10X Pack being "coincidentally" offered in the Thor Tourney right now! This new Thor tourney only exists to maximize a return on the Lazy Thor character (which I am trying hard to boycott.)
Lazy Thor was offered in three tournaments, and all it took was a top 100 finish in the Juggs heroic to at least get one cover.
And he's also in the highly trained tokens, although pulling one is up to the mercy of the RNG gods.
I completely miscalculated the first Juggs, but made top 200 in the Hulk event and top 2 in the second Juggs, and pulled another one from a highly trained token, so I'm sitting on a 3/2/3 Lazy Thor without spending a dime on him - lazy, as is proper.
Effort & smart play (even if I could have been a little smarter and also timed the first Juggs better).
I had real life stuff to do through Juggs heroic, so I couldn't maximize it, or the other tournaments where was offered. I've had bad luck with tokens and Lazy Thor, and great luck with other characters. As you said, RNG. I don't think you are implying that I'm playing the current PVE event wrong are you (considering we have been at the top there for like 98% of the time...)0 -
klingsor wrote:I don't think you are implying that I'm playing the current PVE event wrong are you (considering we have been at the top there for like 98% of the time...)
Of course RL has a way of getting in the way.0 -
jozier wrote:klingsor wrote:kermitk50 wrote:klingsor wrote:Well the game is P2w, because they have required characters in use for tournaments and events that don't come from standard tokens and cannot be gained from prologue and the only way to get these characters is to already be an expert player or...have $50... The more they introduce 3* weekly the more the P2W aspect is reinforced. I'm fine with it, because I see every new char as DLC, and I don't feel obligated to have a maxed Psylocke, BP or LazyThor to have fun. I'm saying let's not pretend this game isn't P2W in it's current design and let's make the game better in spite of it. </snip>
Thats not really true at all. I have not spent a dime and have started to get quite a few 3* covers, including a couple Dooms (current "locked node" needed guy), and other covers I am building up quite nicely. If I try I can place top 25 or so in most PVE or PVP events - high enough to get a new 3* cover. Its all about taking advantage of the rewards when available, then waiting for the next time they come around. If you missed Psylock last time (I did), well guess we are just going to have to wait until they offer it as a reward again! Does not mean I have to pay to win. Hell, Im not even sure I know what you mean by "win". If you mean "Place well enough to get the rewards you want", then the statement is absolute bunk. Is it means "Place 1st", its still not true - just significantly harder. But hell, not everyone can place 1st every event - thats kind of the whole point of a competitive game. Participation trophys dont mean anything - but the three covers of Hood I got from placing 2nd in a PVP event - now THAT I cherish!
Look I agree with the spirit of your post, saying that if you play smart you can do well. I'm sure a lot of people have maxed one or two 3* characters by not spending a dime... but when you see people with pages of maxed characters, do you think they got there by just being super good at match 3? When I say it's essentially designed to be P2W, I mean it from a game design and economic point of view. Anyone can beat a particular fight. What I call winning is not a particular encounter with bad AI, but rather winning tournaments and now, winning alliance competitions. If you don't think there is a correlation between the biggest spenders and the most success in-game, well I have a bridge to sell you.
I'm a F2P player. All it takes is effort and smart play.
I'm also a F2P player, I have every cover, and yes with effort and smart play it can be done... but I still disagree with required characters. It's a horrible way to reward players who spend money on the featured packs, and yes you can get them usually by ranking well in the previous tournament, but there is a chicken/egg scenario here that started with people having these characters because they started playing before required characters was a thing. I'm one of those people, it's why I've always managed to just about keep up enough for required characters not to be a problem. However I can also see that it's clearly a massive P2W initiative for newer players, who can't rank well enough to get the newest character because they don't have the latest required character. I saw someone else somewhere on these forums describe it as a 'gravy train' and I think that's pretty spot on.
tl;dr - I'm F2P with all characters, and you're wrong.0 -
Bowgentle wrote:klingsor wrote:I don't think you are implying that I'm playing the current PVE event wrong are you (considering we have been at the top there for like 98% of the time...)
Of course RL has a way of getting in the way.
I was also trying to protest Lazy Thor's Lazy Design. Of course now I want one, but not to compete in PVP but to not lose precious points. In any case, I might just sit that entire leg out anyway, since I have RL knocking at my door once more.0 -
If I was a mod, I would:
a) lock this thread, cause its a moot point as Pyke lost her buff after round one went by.
b) warn the thread creator, as this is nothing but troll bait.
c) Ban the thread creator, because, at the core level, this thread belongs in "Suggestions and Feedback", not "General Discussion".
not necessarily in that order.0 -
IHatePVP wrote:If I was a mod, I would:
a) lock this thread, cause its a moot point as Pyke lost her buff after round one went by.
b) warn the thread creator, as this is nothing but troll bait.
c) Ban the thread creator, because, at the core level, this thread belongs in "Suggestions and Feedback", not "General Discussion".
not necessarily in that order.
You're Hired!0 -
This game is P2W in the sense that "W" stands for winning vs top players, and that $ buys you time. Not the kind of time you save by buying covers and leveling with $, but the kind you make up by catching up quickly to the pack. As the game progresses, new players will be so far behind the curve that they will be forced to drop $ if they want to compete with the big boys.
So F2P players saying they got to the top purely through "effort and smart play" are leaving out a big piece of the pie. A new player dropping $500 today will still not make up the ground lost to a free player who has played consistently since November.
Fortunately, MMR and scaling makes it so players of all progressions can enjoy top rewards. They just won't be able to fight at top levels without spending $.0 -
The cost it takes to level a character to 141 is constant in terms of money spent, assuming one is able to at least get the first cover of each color somewhere. Alliances also increase the total amount of HP obtained by players in general assuming you belong to a big alliance (doesn't necessarily have to be good, just big). I've spent 5000 HP on upgrading covers and that's enough to put together a competitive roster. Yes, you have to know who to spend it on, but those with knowledge always had an edge. The first 1250 HP I spent on Magneto's blue more than paid for itself, and while I'm not so sure if the 2500 I spent on Black Panther and 1250 on Thor is worth it, even if they turn out to be total losses I'm still well ahead from my first investment on Magneto. I got all my HP by playing. In this game, you got to spend HP to make HP. Shields are an obvious application of this, but so is pumping 1250 HP in a new hero that is likely to be featured in many events. If your lazy Thor is 10 levels higher, that makes your chance of winning all events that involve him much better, and if you get even one good 3* you need that you wouldn't have otherwise, then you made a good investment. Of course you may also make a bad investment, but that's why there is risk in this world.0
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Bowgentle wrote:klingsor wrote:Case in point, I don't have a Lazy Thor cover, and now I'm at a strategic disadvantage for the last leg of the Simulation PVE event. Well, I could pray really hard for him to come out of a standard token and..wait...he isn't in the Standard Tokens at all! Well, How do I solve my dilemma? I can buy a 10X Pack being "coincidentally" offered in the Thor Tourney right now! This new Thor tourney only exists to maximize a return on the Lazy Thor character (which I am trying hard to boycott.)
Lazy Thor was offered in three tournaments, and all it took was a top 100 finish in the Juggs heroic to at least get one cover.
And he's also in the highly trained tokens, although pulling one is up to the mercy of the RNG gods.
3 touraments? There was the 10 day event (forgot the name of it). What were the other two?
Not that I am siding with anyone, but I play quite regularly and was only able to get 1 Lazy Thor cover. I certainly do not think it was easy to get one. I hated busting my butt over 10 days, getting 20 ISO constantly to get a character that I think is just a lazy ****, cashgrab.0 -
MikeHock wrote:3 touraments? There was the 10 day event (forgot the name of it). What were the other two?
Not that I am siding with anyone, but I play quite regularly and was only able to get 1 Lazy Thor cover. I certainly do not think it was easy to get one. I hated busting my butt over 10 days, getting 20 ISO constantly to get a character that I think is just a lazy ****, cashgrab.
I hope lazy #1 gets offered in a normal non-restricted (not 1*s only or villains only or heroes only) tourney soon, Psylocke was given out like candy in these, so lazy #1 should be too.0 -
I am in that boat also where I decided I didn't want a Lazy Thor so I didn't push myself to try to get one and the game seems to keep trying to convince me that was a poor decision.0
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there is a misconception. the locked nodes are not there to reward players who spend money on characters. it's to make sure players keep a varied roster and don't just build up OBW, Spidey, etc. It's also there to make sure you pay attention to events and play them, get the new characters and get a chance to actually try them out. I would have no idea how awesome psylocke is if it wasn't for her boosted nods. now she will end up being one of my core players.
There is a core problem with the game, that the entire player base jumps on the exact same three characters for almost everything. They are using these techniques in order to fight against that.
also, the lazy characters are not about saving money because the devs are broke. the game is doing well. it's top 80 grossing on iOS and icex said that the iOS version wasn't even the main money generator for the game. The reason behind lazy characters is because introducing new characters may seem simple, but there is a lot of time that has to be put into it in order to balance it properly. We end up getting more new characters in the long run if they mix lazy and brand new characters than if they only released new characters.
Also, we have no idea what they are working on, they could be working on other things like new events, new play features, new story lines, who knows. They only have so much bandwidth and although you can hire more people in order to make things go faster, you have to be really careful because if you grow too fast, the whole thing could implode.0 -
locked wrote:MikeHock wrote:3 touraments? There was the 10 day event (forgot the name of it). What were the other two?
Not that I am siding with anyone, but I play quite regularly and was only able to get 1 Lazy Thor cover. I certainly do not think it was easy to get one. I hated busting my butt over 10 days, getting 20 ISO constantly to get a character that I think is just a lazy ****, cashgrab.
I hope lazy #1 gets offered in a normal non-restricted (not 1*s only or villains only or heroes only) tourney soon, Psylocke was given out like candy in these, so lazy #1 should be too.
Thanks, you jarred my memory.
I earned my 1 Lazy Thor cover in the Hulk Tourney and I played a bunch.
I had so much trouble with the Heroic Juggy event. I couldn't complete all the missions in either round and didn't come close to scoring a Thor cover.
Sure, he was available in 3 tournaments, but it was difficult to earn him IMHO.0 -
PVE is not my favorite part of the game. It is such a grind and you have to get the timing right to perform well. I prefer to play for 15 or 20 minute stretches every couple of hours, and at random times when I have a break at work or I am not doing family activities. PvP is much more suited to how I like to play than PvE. When the new characters are only released as PvE rewards (as Lazy Thor was), I have a very difficult time getting them. It's almost impossible for me. BP and Psylocke were both offered as PvP rewards immediately after their introduction and I had no problem getting those. I was lucky enough to pull a single Lazy Thor cover from a Highly Trained token, for which I feel incredibly lucky, but I'm not sure how well I will do on those nodes with a single red cover. So it's mildly irritating to me that he will be required, but most people seem okay with it, so what can I do? It is what it is, I guess.0
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dlaw008 wrote:So it's mildly irritating to me that he will be required, but most people seem okay with it, so what can I do? It is what it is, I guess.
Sums up how I feel about it nicely. I suppose with alliances it will be easier to get at least one Steve even if lack of Lazy Thor shoots some of us in the foot at the end of the simulator.0 -
klingsor wrote:Do you disagree with my basic point that there is a bias towards P2W? Case in point, I don't have a Lazy Thor cover, and now I'm at a strategic disadvantage for the last leg of the Simulation PVE event. Well, I could pray really hard for him to come out of a standard token and..wait...he isn't in the Standard Tokens at all! Well, How do I solve my dilemma? I can buy a 10X Pack being "coincidentally" offered in the Thor Tourney right now! This new Thor tourney only exists to maximize a return on the Lazy Thor character (which I am trying hard to boycott.)
of course, you're technically correct, but you use such a loose definition of P2W that pretty much every game ever made, excluding pure freeware games, is p2w
obviously spending money grants you an advantage in this game, and why now? why would anybody spend money if it didn't? But it's certainly not the way that you just have to spend a few bucks and pull in the easy wins: the main part is still the effort, paying just makes it a bit easier. Unless you spend insane amounts of money the game really isn't P2W (well ok, it kinda is: play to win )
I've build my whole roster without spending any HP on it. I only bought 200hp early to get an additional slot and was otherwise free until last week when I bought some to buy another alliance slot. But every one of my characters is paid for by pure game money. Sure, I don't have a maxed roster, but I too will get there eventually.0 -
Fluffyudders wrote:I'm also a F2P player, I have every cover, and yes with effort and smart play it can be done... but I still disagree with required characters. It's a horrible way to reward players who spend money on the featured packs, and yes you can get them usually by ranking well in the previous tournament, but there is a chicken/egg scenario here that started with people having these characters because they started playing before required characters was a thing. I'm one of those people, it's why I've always managed to just about keep up enough for required characters not to be a problem. However I can also see that it's clearly a massive P2W initiative for newer players, who can't rank well enough to get the newest character because they don't have the latest required character. I saw someone else somewhere on these forums describe it as a 'gravy train' and I think that's pretty spot on.
tl;dr - I'm F2P with all characters, and you're wrong.
Hate to break it to you, but if a newer player is too new to place well because they lack a required character, what makes you think they'd have a developed enough roster to place well with the required character?
This isn't a new phenomenon. It's been the case for the PVE for the entire history of the game. There have always been nodes that rewarded you for playing more often and/or getting lucky in packs and/or buying a pack that featured a character.
That's how the game works. If you put the effort and time in, it is very easy to get the characters you need to attempt an Essential node. If you don't, you can pay for it.
If you don't want to pay, you don't want to put the effort in, you can't compete. And that's fine, because why should someone who doesn't want to pay or play get to reap the rewards?0
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