S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Level: Event Rewards Preview *Updated
Comments
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Crowl wrote:DFiPL wrote:Except they don't. There are guaranteed 2- and 3-star covers in the progression, and some of those are covers that used to be reserved for top 100 finishes (or higher) now being given out to everybody who plays a minimum amount.
That's the fundamental flaw people grousing over the placement rewards are making here: people finishing top 100 or top 50 aren't getting less than they used to, cover-wise. They're seeing that cover shift into the progression and other rewards replace that cover.
The real issue is that there is a clear discrepancy between the players and the devs as to how many rewards are actually enough, most people would suggest that the amount of rewards at the level they can fully use are woefully insufficient.
Take a new character release for example, outside of luck with event tokens, the devs think that 0.2% of the playerbase getting more than one colour of a character is enough, whereas they could easily afford to give out one cover to every player in that pve event, all 3 covers to the top 1% (t100) and slightly more to t20 and above. While they might lost out marginally on a whale who stops after max-covering that new release, most of those would simply be a few more levels into their newly championed character so no real loss there and at the lower end there will tend to be more small purchases as more people need more roster slots.
With new releases coming so frequently and the rng getting ever worse as far as getting the ones you need, they need to realise that shifting some rewards from placement to progression is not the answer, they needed to be adding rewards to progression while not reducing those in placements.
Thought I posted to this thread, but apparently someone else's post short-circuited mine and I didn't notice.
Bottom line: that discrepancy is ALWAYS going to exist. When will the minnows in a free-to-play environment ever tell the devs "no, stop, you're giving us too much"? What happens is that the reward structure, even after an improvement, will quickly settle into "gah so stingy" sentiments.
As hodayathink points out, the top 100 is the top 10% (which I'm willing to ascribe to a typo), not the top 1%.
But even above and beyond that, as I tried to point out earlier and as hodoyathink points out also, unless they throw a curveball on the 4* progression reward in the event after the next new character release, virtually everybody WILL have the ability to get at least one cover of a new character. Which is exactly what people have been clamoring for.
Would 1/1/1 be even better? Of course.
But it appears as if the devs (or more likely the beancounters) *may* have become receptive to the idea that if they give everybody a legit opportunity at a 4* cover, those "small purchases" you referred to will happen to roster those characters.
Whales still gonna whale, and those characters will be covered and maxed in short order. This would be true whether or not they gave out 3 covers to top 100 and more than that for the ascendant ranks. But there are going to be a non-trivial number of whales for whom an extra 2-4 covers represent a savings opportunity that exceeds the additional income from lower level players rostering that 4*.
TL;DR: we appear to be getting something here that people have been clamoring for forever. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the very good. Let's run with this for a while and see if the speculation is correct and new release characters ARE available to everybody as a progression reward. Let them get a handle on what the CP + 4* cover in progressions means for their business.
Then they may be receptive to a conversation about how high we can go from there. But "okay we have this thing we've been crying out for forever now we're going to up our demands before the dust has had time to settle" is probably going to be a non-starter.0 -
DFiPL wrote:CrookedKnight wrote:Yes, the same way it's been forever....except that with the Clearance Level system coming online, suddenly the useful prizes get even farther away for transitioning players. A system where lower-level players have to finish in the top 50 for guaranteed 2- or 3-star covers doesn't work if they're being forced to compete directly against CL7 players' scores.
Except they don't. There are guaranteed 2- and 3-star covers in the progression, and some of those are covers that used to be reserved for top 100 finishes (or higher) now being given out to everybody who plays a minimum amount.
That's the fundamental flaw people grousing over the placement rewards are making here: people finishing top 100 or top 50 aren't getting less than they used to, cover-wise. They're seeing that cover shift into the progression and other rewards replace that cover.
Now, for the sake of discussion, let's examine the argument that that perhaps the rank 51-100 reward isn't as good as it used to be because it substitutes RNG for what used to be guaranteed.
"Isn't as good" will be a little more subjective. Maybe you value the placement cover more highly than whoever is essential during the event. But hey, good news, that cover will be available in early progression in the next event. But if you look at the prize as straight-up "worth"? The ISO value of a 3* guaranteed cover is, generally, 500 ISO. Yeah, champion levels can result in other prizes if the timing is right, but in general if you sell a 3* cover, you're getting 500 ISO. If you apply a champion level, your baseline prize is, on average, 500 ISO. If you're getting 3 Elite tokens for a 75th place finish, your worst case scenario in terms of value is 750 ISO (and those covers may yield champion levels themselves). Your best-case scenario, from an ISO-value standpoint is 1500 ISO. In neither of those circumstances are you 'losing' value. If the prize had been a 2* cover, three standard tokens still yields, worst case, 300 ISO worth of fodder (and could go up to the same 1500).
There is a reasonable argument to be made over one's agency in roster progress, with the introduction of RNG, but if you're finishing top 100, you're grabbing an extra 2* or 3* cover in progression and you're getting tokens with an ISO value greater than the previous reward (and that ignores the boost to the ISO reward for top 100).
Lower level players *are* sacrificing some control in the new setup. I'm not sure I'd agree with "useful prizes being further away."
I am a new player. Will be getting less. This will be worst pay out since I started. I am in 12th right now. Best I get is a token with a 26% chance of a 3*. Every player above or below me in top 25 are all probably cl7. Soon I will no longer be in 12th. My wife has played almost a month also. After seeing my bracket at cl5 she went cl4. She has the same issue in her bracket. Fortunately she loves pvp. Only I am grinding it out. From someone playing just at 41 days now. It is not an improvement to what I win. And no help for me to transition to 3*. I like the game. But hoping they tweak this a bit. Before I lost to top rosters got progression. Now I have same competition with less to win in progression.
Time and quality play get you in top 100. Low lvl rosters who can win at there scaling will win prizes. Probably not great ones. But better then anything I can hope for in this event.0 -
As a daily casual non-competitive player with 750+ days, all my 10 2*s and 34 3*s champed, but not a single one 4* max covered... I just wanted to say: THANK YOU!
Playing in CL7, I can get two 3*s and one 4* in progression, and that's awesome! Now I can still playing at my own pace, reach up to the the 4* cover, getting some CP in the process, and be completely satisfied!!! God, I don't even need to care about placement anymore
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i guess i wasn't paying close enough attention at the progression rewards. i thought the cp was 5 then 5 then 25...
i guess people that can't grind all the way like it better, but why can't you just keep the last cp at 25?0 -
I started my event this morning. It was nice to see that with only around an hour of grinding, I already won a 3* cover from the progression rewards.
One question.. earlier on, I won a surprise boost from progression prizes. How do I find out which boost I won?0 -
As I mulled this over yesterday, I came to the realization that we had been begging the devs for a progression based PVE. It feels like they are moving that way by making placement rewards more negligible.
The good stuff is in the progression. We asked for that. They seem to be phasing back placement... we asked for it to be eliminated... it may go that route.
If I can get the 4* from progression instead of placement, I am a happy camper. I too was turned off by the reduced placement rewards, because I had been accustomed to T100 and get a cover, so when I saw that was changed, I looked at it as something was taken away from me. But when looking at Progression, that is so much more conforming to my schedule needs, my play style, and what we were asking for... I just had to stand back and think about it for a minute.
It is a good thing.0 -
JVReal wrote:As I mulled this over yesterday, I came to the realization that we had been begging the devs for a progression based PVE. It feels like they are moving that way by making placement rewards more negligible.
The good stuff is in the progression. We asked for that. They seem to be phasing back placement... we asked for it to be eliminated... it may go that route.
If I can get the 4* from progression instead of placement, I am a happy camper. I too was turned off by the reduced placement rewards, because I had been accustomed to T100 and get a cover, so when I saw that was changed, I looked at it as something was taken away from me. But when looking at Progression, that is so much more conforming to my schedule needs, my play style, and what we were asking for... I just had to stand back and think about it for a minute.
It is a good thing.
Agreed. I can get a 4* cover now if I choose to, pick up some CP and 3* along the way. No grinding needed to get what I want.
Placement ? Haven't even looked to see where I'm currently sitting.0 -
oBrokeno wrote:I am a new player.
Welcome to MPQ!Will be getting less. This will be worst pay out since I started. I am in 12th right now. Best I get is a token with a 26% chance of a 3*. Every player above or below me in top 25 are all probably cl7.
Incorrect! If you're playing PVE in CL5, those with whom you have been bracketed are also playing CL5. Now, they may have rosters better suited to CL7, because they're allowed to drop down, but having looked at the rewards myself before choosing to go CL7, I really don't think that's all that smart of them, if they did that. It's just not worth it, IMO.
But, no: the game is not bracketing players in CL7 with players in CL5 for placement reward purposes.Soon I will no longer be in 12th. My wife has played almost a month also. After seeing my bracket at cl5 she went cl4. She has the same issue in her bracket. Fortunately she loves pvp. Only I am grinding it out. From someone playing just at 41 days now. It is not an improvement to what I win. And no help for me to transition to 3*. I like the game. But hoping they tweak this a bit. Before I lost to top rosters got progression. Now I have same competition with less to win in progression.
Time and quality play get you in top 100. Low lvl rosters who can win at there scaling will win prizes. Probably not great ones. But better then anything I can hope for in this event.
There's more ISO in progressions now. Previously, the progression had 2x 2* and 1x 3* cover. What you have now at CL5 is 1x 2*, 1x elite (guaranteed 2* with a 24% chance of 3*) and 1x 3*. You haven't sacrificed any actual rewards in the progression ladder. What's maybe missing is a little bit of agency because instead of being able to push for a specific 2*, RNG has been introduced to the process. You don't know which 2* it'll be, and it could even be a 3*.
You aren't losing any rewards compared to what came before. Not at CL5. At the lower tiers, yes, there's a difference. That first 2* has been replaced by a 1* cover for CL1-2, and the second 2* got replaced with a standard token for CL-4.
That said, one of the arguments that's been around for a while is that access to the higher-tier rewards right away for new rosters was distorting their sense of who to keep and who can actually help them in the 1-2* transition and the 2*-3* transition. I know that had been interesting trying to guide my girlfriend through early days (she's probably in the 14-21 day period) of her own MPQ experience. She's free-to-play (I'm thinking maybe I'll buy her a Google Play gift card so she can open up some more roster spots), but her impulse is to keep the 1-cover 3* she gets every so often and there just isn't the room to do that AND build a useful 2* roster in the first 50 days as a F2P user.
Now, of course she wants the shinies. So do you, so did I, so does everybody. But a regular player just won't spend that much time in CL1-2. I mean, what did you say? You've been playing 41 days and you're already at CL5? That should tell you how transitional CL1-4 are going to be for anybody who plays more than a token amount.
By the time you hit CL5, you're getting the same quantity of 2* covers as you previously did, with a little bit of RNG thrown in for good measure (you don't know who that second 2* is, and you might even get an extra 3*). Once you step up to CL6, you're going to be getting two 3* covers with a shot at a 3rd.0 -
So in the 2 day sub I got top 50 and only 1 elite token? I thought for the sub top 50 you got 2 elite tokens in CL 7?0
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So my alliance got like top 1000 (not great but still) and yet we got a standard rather than the 3 elite it said we would.
I call shenanigans.0 -
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Hearts of Darkness preview has 4* covers as top 10 placement rewards instead of top 5. Interesting.
The bad news: It's Mister Fantastic...0 -
Why not allow the lower cl lvl players to choose higher cl for better progression rewards? If the higher cl players can choose to drop cl lvl and take most of the top placements. Would it not be more worth while to allow small roster players to go for the max progression possible.0
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While I cant confirm whether the HP is the same, if I finish top 100 in this event then I will be more than happy with the shift in rewards...
ISO is up new format vs old (maybe not as much as we might like but still... it is definitely up)
CP is the same.
Covers however...
Top 100 with full progression in the old system got me 2x 2* cover from progression and 3x 3* cover (1 progression 2 Placement I think)
Top 100 with full progression now gets me 2x 3* covers (progression), 1x 4* cover (progression) and 3 elite tokens that worse case are 2*
So worse case I get an extra 2* and a 4* instead of a 3*... cool...
If lucky I could get no 2* and 5x 3* and a 4* which would be awesome0 -
I agree. I was very happy when I looked at the rewards list. I particularly appreciate the shift in HP - previously I Always made sure to end in the top 50 to get 50 HP, here I can end in the top 100 and get 200 HP! (Yes, the 48 hour subs do affect this, but even then it was top 50 for 100 HP, so it's twice as much HP for twice as many players...)Gmax101 wrote:While I cant confirm whether the HP is the same, if I finish top 100 in this event then I will be more than happy with the shift in rewards...
ISO is up new format vs old (maybe not as much as we might like but still... it is definitely up)
CP is the same.
Covers however...
Top 100 with full progression in the old system got me 2x 2* cover from progression and 3x 3* cover (1 progression 2 Placement I think)
Top 100 with full progression now gets me 2x 3* covers (progression), 1x 4* cover (progression) and 3 elite tokens that worse case are 2*
So worse case I get an extra 2* and a 4* instead of a 3*... cool...
If lucky I could get no 2* and 5x 3* and a 4* which would be awesome0 -
I joined Deadpool v MPQ late, so I had access to CL 7.
That is a GIANT improvement! I'm unlikely to hit the final reward (15 CP), but since 10 of it was sprinkled in at lower progression targets AND I got a guaranteed 4* at a reasonably achievable target with standard (ie, non-maxed) play, I'm very happy.
I think the final progression reward is reasonably placed, as well. I cleared sub 1 nodes 4x, no extras. Sub 2 I've cleared each node 4x and am waiting for full refresh. I'll have to hit each node at least 3x more (post-refresh) to get that prize. Given the better rewards sprinkled throughout the ladder, it means reasonable play gets reasonable rewards, and aggressive play will make it to final.
Overall, very satisfied so far. Since CL7 is only lv 38(?), I'm excited to see the next one. I'm already happy with what I've got, but if it's not impacting my scaling it means even better things are on the way.0 -
Because that defeats the entire concept of Clearance Levels. It is the way things have been going before Clearance Levels came about, and the lower rosters couldn't always get the higher tier prizes anyway.oBrokeno wrote:Why not allow the lower cl lvl players to choose higher cl for better progression rewards? If the higher cl players can choose to drop cl lvl and take most of the top placements. Would it not be more worth while to allow small roster players to go for the max progression possible.
The higher your rank, the higher your scaling, the higher your rewards if you choose the highest clearance level you qualify for. Rewards equal to roster strength.0
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