Muffin Discussion

GrumpySmurf1002

dsds wrote:

It makes no difference for the bottom feeders. They only help 4* and 5* roster who can easily make it to 1000pts if they tried in the first place.

Sure, a 2* player isn't going places, but cupcakes aren't for 4/5* players. As you said, they can easily get there anyway.

It benefits 3*s the most, as some barely out of the 2->3* transition can do 1500+ in PvP with the cupcake mechanic.

The Bob The

MarvelMan wrote:

dsds wrote:

The trickle down effect quickly stops at most at rank 100 probably.

I guarantee that is not true. While queuing cupcakes (over 900 pts, rank 70ish) Ive been hit by players who were just starting and had less than 200 pts. I will give you that those players had good rosters (equivalent to mine), but its not a rank thing. And ccing does trickle down from 5* to 4* to 3*, etc as Ive seen muffins eaten by 2* and 3* players.

Keep in mind this could also be people who Q'd you early because they know you're gonna climb and be worth more later. This also happens in places like, oh, Lightning Rounds.

The Bob The

Jarvind wrote:

Additional euphemisms to consider for "baking a cupcake:"

Frying an egg
Buttering a lobster
Marinating a porkchop
COOKIN' UP SOME CRYSTAL
Waiting for the souffle to rise
Kneading some dough
JESSE WE NEED TO COOK
Brewing a coffee
Shucking the corn
Boiling a noodle
I AM THE ONE WHO KNOCKS
Preparing an artisinal slow-roasted duck **** with heirloom leek puree and a port wine reduction
This got away from me somehow

No, no, I think you're on to something.

dsds

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

dsds wrote:

It makes no difference for the bottom feeders. They only help 4* and 5* roster who can easily make it to 1000pts if they tried in the first place.

Sure, a 2* player isn't going places, but cupcakes aren't for 4/5* players. As you said, they can easily get there anyway.

It benefits 3*s the most, as some barely out of the 2->3* transition can do 1500+ in PvP with the cupcake mechanic.

To be honest, I am 3-4* transitioner, I've had a pretty rough time hitting 1000pts. Pretty hard time hitting 800pts to be honest but maybe the 1 or 2 championed 4* affect my mmr. I rarely if ever use shields Even with cupcakes, I don't hit it. All my 3* are champed except 2 or 3 of them. I've only encountered 2 cupcakes in the last 3 months of play. I play every pvp because it's an alliance requirement otherwise I might have skipped it altogether. I join early and just go up and down to get the iso and the 100hero points. I play early as to not let the alliance down and make my requirement which is below my float.

madok

I know it has been suggested before, what if they made the progression score for an event be separate from your placement score? So you don't lose points in your progression if you get hit.

I'm pretty sure that is how season points used to work way back when I started playing. It encourages people to play PvP but only requires them to use shields if they care about getting a good placement reward or contributing points to their Alliance score.

carrion_pigeons

I've literally never hit 1000 points. I've gotten to 900 only a couple times. But I recognize that that's because I don't use shields or Line. The basic strategy has been outlined well enough for me to understand how to do it, even though I have never actually seen a cupcake in my life.

Saying that CCing doesn't benefit weaker rosters is pretty absurd, since a determined 2* roster backed by a good amount of HP for shields can (and does!) get 2k in a PvP event. The real issue that people don't like is that the strategy is all OOG. Nothing about the game implies that cupcakes are possible, or points players in anything like that direction. If the game's implementation were such that players were aided in finding (and baking) cupcakes, it would probably be better for all involved. Of course, it would require substantial overhauls to a lot of the game's systems, which will never happen, but it's nice to think about.

dsds

carrion pigeons wrote:

I've literally never hit 1000 points. I've gotten to 900 only a couple times. But I recognize that that's because I don't use shields or Line. The basic strategy has been outlined well enough for me to understand how to do it, even though I have never actually seen a cupcake in my life.

Saying that CCing doesn't benefit weaker rosters is pretty absurd, since a determined 2* roster backed by a good amount of HP for shields can (and does!) get 2k in a PvP event. The real issue that people don't like is that the strategy is all OOG. Nothing about the game implies that cupcakes are possible, or points players in anything like that direction. If the game's implementation were such that players were aided in finding (and baking) cupcakes, it would probably be better for all involved. Of course, it would require substantial overhauls to a lot of the game's systems, which will never happen, but it's nice to think about.

In order for a 2* roster to hit 2K in pvp, it would be an almost impossible task. Even if you had hp to spend on shields, you would be shield hopping like crazy. Some people can shield hop with 1-4 fights in between shields. With a 2* roster, you would be shield hopping with 1 fight in between and you'd be lucky not to be hit in that one fight as 4* rosters can mop your team up in half the time it takes you to win a fight. You are seen by the higher players once you hit 800pts. I said almost impossible because you can apparently coordinate in line to reduce the amount of hits on you and to cupcake all the way to the top I guess.

Also don't forget that the natural float is much lower for a 2* roster. So you would be climbing from like 300 compared to others who would be climbing at 600-800 pts. Its a considerable amount of hp for the extra shield hops it requires.

madok

aesthetocyst wrote:

madok wrote:

I'm pretty sure that is how season points used to work way back when I started playing.

Unless that was in another game .... nope. Always been the same in MPQ, season points only "banked" when one of the contributing events ends.

*shrugs*

I may have just thought that was how it worked because I was just dabbling in PvP back then. It was before I found the forums and had a clue how everything worked too. Those were the good ol' days of spending "spare" ISO on standard tokens.

MarvelMan

dsds wrote:

In order for a 2* roster to hit 2K in pvp, it would be an almost impossible task. Even if you had hp to spend on shields, you would be shield hopping like crazy. Some people can shield hop with 1-4 fights in between shields. With a 2* roster, you would be shield hopping with 1 fight in between and you'd be lucky not to be hit in that one fight as 4* rosters can mop your team up in half the time it takes you to win a fight. You are seen by the higher players once you hit 800pts. I said almost impossible because you can apparently coordinate in line to reduce the amount of hits on you and to cupcake all the way to the top I guess.

Two things:
1) Yes, it happens. Ive seen it, and been amazed.

2) I dont think that there is a firm threshold set at 800 points, other than that being where its 1:1 for points gained/lost. The visibility is a combination of rank/score, which fluctuates like a float point. (of course, I could be wrong, feel free to correct)

OneLastGambit

Ok stay with me here i think i have 2 things which solves both the cupcake issue and also the necessity for it (dearth of points/targets)

Why the problem exists?

People use cupcakes to inflate their score due to a lack of targets.

Leaving aside the issue that they are beneficial to anyone who can see them it IS an unintended effect within the game. I'm sure the devs intended for people to simply compete for too scores rather than use the baking system.

How to fix it?

What if the points you acquire was not determined by the difference in points between you and your opponent but by the roster you are against? So more points for beating 5* than for beating 1*. Now all of a sudden cupcaking is defunkt. It also encorages people to fight better rosters and hence use better rosters.

I know what you're thinking... Won't people just then not bother using shields and just leave out a 1* team to avoid hits? Nope because all those lovely chaps in the 1 and 2* range will still hit you..

This new scoring system goes the same for defensive wins and defeats too. So cupcake problem solved.


But we also need to address why this exists... Lack of targets.

My second fix is to remove the invisibility portion of the shield mechanic. Everyone is available all of the time to everyone.

I know what you are thinking... Won't that hyperinflate scores?

A lot of people agree that hitting 1300 without cupcakes ( unless you're a whale) is not possible or insanely difficult without cc. I believe that the current system artificially supresses the scoring economy to a level below what it should be so changing the mechanic won't hyperinflate scores..it will allow them to reach their own natural level.

Even if they do hyperinflate... So what? Which is worse high scores and lots of target but people making their progressions more often - or - suppressed scores and endless bouts of paying skip tax ?

Oh that's the other totally intended benefit of this new system...skip tax is redundant

carrion_pigeons

dsds wrote:

carrion pigeons wrote:

I've literally never hit 1000 points. I've gotten to 900 only a couple times. But I recognize that that's because I don't use shields or Line. The basic strategy has been outlined well enough for me to understand how to do it, even though I have never actually seen a cupcake in my life.

Saying that CCing doesn't benefit weaker rosters is pretty absurd, since a determined 2* roster backed by a good amount of HP for shields can (and does!) get 2k in a PvP event. The real issue that people don't like is that the strategy is all OOG. Nothing about the game implies that cupcakes are possible, or points players in anything like that direction. If the game's implementation were such that players were aided in finding (and baking) cupcakes, it would probably be better for all involved. Of course, it would require substantial overhauls to a lot of the game's systems, which will never happen, but it's nice to think about.

In order for a 2* roster to hit 2K in pvp, it would be an almost impossible task. Even if you had hp to spend on shields, you would be shield hopping like crazy. Some people can shield hop with 1-4 fights in between shields. With a 2* roster, you would be shield hopping with 1 fight in between and you'd be lucky not to be hit in that one fight as 4* rosters can mop your team up in half the time it takes you to win a fight. You are seen by the higher players once you hit 800pts. I said almost impossible because you can apparently coordinate in line to reduce the amount of hits on you and to cupcake all the way to the top I guess.

Also don't forget that the natural float is much lower for a 2* roster. So you would be climbing from like 300 compared to others who would be climbing at 600-800 pts. Its a considerable amount of hp for the extra shield hops it requires.

You seem to think I'm talking about theory. It actually happens. It's not a hypothetical.

fmftint

carrion pigeons wrote:

I've literally never hit 1000 points. I've gotten to 900 only a couple times. But I recognize that that's because I don't use shields or Line. The basic strategy has been outlined well enough for me to understand how to do it, even though I have never actually seen a cupcake in my life.

Saying that CCing doesn't benefit weaker rosters is pretty absurd, since a determined 2* roster backed by a good amount of HP for shields can (and does!) get 2k in a PvP event. The real issue that people don't like is that the strategy is all OOG. Nothing about the game implies that cupcakes are possible, or points players in anything like that direction. If the game's implementation were such that players were aided in finding (and baking) cupcakes, it would probably be better for all involved. Of course, it would require substantial overhauls to a lot of the game's systems, which will never happen, but it's nice to think about.

To be fair, the game doesn't do much of anything, pve or pvp to direct the player in the optomal way to play.

Show me in game where it says your scaling is set by your T3 characters and that roster outliers csn ruin your game experience

madok

OneLastGambit wrote:

My second fix is to remove the invisibility portion of the shield mechanic. Everyone is available all of the time to everyone.

The only problem with this is people could abuse it to attack folks when they drop shields to hop. Say Player A makes someone with lots of friends mad. All those players queue up Player A and wait until they drop their shields to do a hop and all attack at the same time.

MarvelMan

madok wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

My second fix is to remove the invisibility portion of the shield mechanic. Everyone is available all of the time to everyone.

The only problem with this is people could abuse it to attack folks when they drop shields to hop. Say Player A makes someone with lots of friends mad. All those players queue up Player A and wait until they drop their shields to do a hop and all attack at the same time.

The current system isnt perfect, but there are a lot of worse options. Some have even been tried. The devs need to be careful not to back slide (too much) by implementing changes that are not well thought out AND TESTED. Preferably out of season.

dsds

madok wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

My second fix is to remove the invisibility portion of the shield mechanic. Everyone is available all of the time to everyone.

The only problem with this is people could abuse it to attack folks when they drop shields to hop. Say Player A makes someone with lots of friends mad. All those players queue up Player A and wait until they drop their shields to do a hop and all attack at the same time.

I suggested this too. But mine was to go further and say shielded people are only worth half the points while shielded but can be attacked/seen. And points are taken off a player only if the battle started after they were unshielded. The reason for half the points is because shielded player lose no points and do not get the option to retaliate.

tiomono

All this baked goods discussion has me thinking about the new movie about constipation.........




It hasn't come out yet.

Punisher5784

jobob wrote:

Of course, I'm a whale, it would help me out if no one knew the muffin man...

I agree. I have been seeing signs looking for his whereabouts

Fightmastermpq

dsds wrote:

MarvelMan wrote:

dsds wrote:

The trickle down effect quickly stops at most at rank 100 probably.

I guarantee that is not true. While queuing cupcakes (over 900 pts, rank 70ish) Ive been hit by players who were just starting and had less than 200 pts. I will give you that those players had good rosters (equivalent to mine), but its not a rank thing. And ccing does trickle down from 5* to 4* to 3*, etc as Ive seen muffins eaten by 2* and 3* players.

Ok let me reword this. It is for higher roster players who can easily hit rank 100. It doesn't matter if someone can eat a muffin. It is the fact that they won't be able to keep those points for very long. Only the ones who have 4* or 5* rosters who can keep the points until the end. Near event ends, those 2* and 3* rosters get slaughtered. Even my higher 3* and earlier 4* roster gets slaughtered.

What's the point when eating a 75pt muffin with a 2* roster when clearly you know you will lose it in a matter of minutes through attacks. I consider the 1000 pt progression reward as a benefit to whoever gets it. A 2* roster or even a 3* one will very very rarely hit 1000pts even if they eat a few number of cupcakes. Muffins does nothing to help them increase in rank or to achieve the 1000 pt progression goal. Rare exceptions being people who use shields, but usually it requires more shields than what you guys say here. You can probably be unshielded for one or two fights max whereas a 4* or 5* roster and can stay unshielded a lot longer.

Because math? I wish you would spend half the time you've spent debating game mechanics in here on actually seeking to understand the game mechanics.

Let me put it another way that might help you understand.....you don't get attacked by players in a particular point range, you get attacked by particular roster types, and you attack certain sized rosters yourself. There is no rule that says once you get over 300 pts all the big guns come out to obliterate you, rather once your score is higher than most of the other similar sized rosters is when you start to get beaten back down. You should have noticed by now that your float point changes over the course of the event. This is because more total points get injected into the slice, which raises everyone's float point. The 4* players get fat on the 5* cakes raising the average 4* score from say 800 to 1000. Say a 3* player can get to 80% of a 4* score before he becomes more attractive to the other 4* players and starts to fall, now instead of getting to 650, he can hit 800. Same for the 2* player and so forth.

maltyo9

The Bob The wrote:

Jarvind wrote:

Additional euphemisms to consider for "baking a cupcake:"

Frying an egg
Buttering a lobster
Marinating a porkchop
COOKIN' UP SOME CRYSTAL
Waiting for the souffle to rise
Kneading some dough
JESSE WE NEED TO COOK
Brewing a coffee
Shucking the corn
Boiling a noodle
I AM THE ONE WHO KNOCKS
Preparing an artisinal slow-roasted duck **** with heirloom leek puree and a port wine reduction
This got away from me somehow

No, no, I think you're on to something.

Don't forget the duck remoulade...

Astralgazer

Reading the thread makes me want to watch those Master Chef shows. Croquembouche, anyone? Yum.