Muffin Discussion

jobob

I don't want to start a thread that gets immediately locked, so since I know certain sweet treat discussion is off limits, but perhaps we can have a reasonable discussion about muffin-making?

I am curious about the rationale behind wanting to drive everyone's scores down, and reduce the social element of the game, and discourage teamwork. Seems like a bit of a misprioritization to me.

Of course, I'm a whale, it would help me out if no one knew the muffin man... But I always rather enjoyed helping the smaller rosters out.

SnowcaTT

I feel a warning coming on!

I like the debate that Polares suggested awhile back -
Let's talk about why players are struggling to hit the high rewards.
Let's talk about why players are finding other ways to hit those high rewards.
Let's talk about proper rewards for high-level players.
Let's talk about how much time/shielding/(money) is required for high level PVP play.
Let's talk about tight MMR and lack of opponent/character variety options!

firethorne

I think the mods are going too need to stock up until this is clearly addressed by the dev team...

JVReal

If a person wasn't heavily punished for playing, losing 170+ points in 2 minutes during 1 fight, a person would be more inclined to fight a large team that takes 5 minutes to fight and do it multiple times.

The losing of points to me is the biggest PVP problem. Get 10, lose 75? Why?

GrumpySmurf1002

I still want to know if Brownies and especially Steaks are getting swept up in the mix. 'Cause if they are, then that effectively says "all these characters we're releasing are really just for champion farming, you don't get to actually use them ever."

Meander

I'm also curious on the definition, which someone brought up earlier. If a 5* player runs boosted 4*s does that count? How about non-boosted champ 4*'s? What if I run champed 4* instead of 390 phoenix/boosted 4*? What if a 3* runs boosted 2*'s?

A clear definition seems paramount.

dsds

I believe, they will fix it with shield clearance levels. There will be more rewards for people to get as they rank up higher. I would assume that because there are more rewards and higher level fights, the people who have 5* rosters aren't going to want to fight for the same 3* cover as a 3*players because he could fight higher level matches that give a 4* or more iso instead?

The current muffin making is really a temporary band aid solution. I think if you are open to change, you may see that there are much better options out there. It may cost less shields and require less time to coordinate too.

Edit: It's not really healthy for a game to have such a huge disparity of points between a new player and a veteran. Really a 2000-4000 point difference between the top player and the lowest ranked player? Even if you put out cupcakes, the top players take back the points. It really only helps the top 50, but not really the bottom 200.

jobob

dsds wrote:

.Edit: It's not really healthy for a game to have such a huge disparity of points between a new player and a veteran. Really a 2000-4000 point difference between the top player and the lowest ranked player? Even if you put out cupcakes, the top players take back the points. It really only helps the top 50, but not really the bottom 200.

You mean it doesn't really help the top, but really only helps the bottom?

Fightmastermpq

Mini-muffins are fantastic. Someone sent us a basket a work once and people went CRAZY over those little muffins. It was the best day.

firethorne

JVReal wrote:

If a person wasn't heavily punished for playing, losing 170+ points in 2 minutes during 1 fight, a person would be more inclined to fight a large team that takes 5 minutes to fight and do it multiple times.

The losing of points to me is the biggest PVP problem. Get 10, lose 75? Why?

With that, I completely agree. I was saying on a different thread that I had no problems winning ten matches in a row on Cyclops. Yet, my net score didn't go up more than 50 points. Literally every time I'd come out of a match, I would see a Red Hulk or OML had hit me.

And, I think it also plays into the problem of so many charterers seeming weak. It really isn't that they can't win matches. It is that they don't do so quickly, especially against character boosted 100+ levels above them. In the meta where you need to get points quickly, lest you lose more than you make, that is a serious liability.

dsds

jobob wrote:

dsds wrote:

.Edit: It's not really healthy for a game to have such a huge disparity of points between a new player and a veteran. Really a 2000-4000 point difference between the top player and the lowest ranked player? Even if you put out cupcakes, the top players take back the points. It really only helps the top 50, but not really the bottom 200.

You mean it doesn't really help the top, but really only helps the bottom?

The bottom people can't get to the cupcakes. So how does it help them? It only helps the guys who are at the 4* or 5* level because they are the ones who can eat it. They don't get attacked as often as the lower end players so they have a much better chance at seeing a cupcake and eating it. They keep most of those points because no one in 2* land will take their points.

The trickle down effect quickly stops at most at rank 100 probably.

METT-T dependent

Fightmastermpq wrote:

Mini-muffins are fantastic. Someone sent us a basket a work once and people went CRAZY over those little muffins. It was the best day.

Your work makes me sad.

fmftint

JVReal wrote:

If a person wasn't heavily punished for playing, losing 170+ points in 2 minutes during 1 fight, a person would be more inclined to fight a large team that takes 5 minutes to fight and do it multiple times.

The losing of points to me is the biggest PVP problem. Get 10, lose 75? Why?

They could make shields work as check points, buy a shield and lock in your current points. When you unshield all you risk are the points above that check point

kobu

These recent threads all really point to a dire need to overhaul the Versus mode, and I expect that's what's going to happen. I can't really imagine that along with baked goods there was any intent for players to create opponent caching strategies, or utilize shields for anything other than the obvious purpose of maintaining a score during times away from the game.

This is all rather Byzantine for a mobile match game that should be incredibly straightforward and accessible to players just picking up the game. This level of involvement needed to succeed leads to there being a relatively small and insular group that can "enjoy" this mode fully by exploiting all the quirks. I think I'll be sticking to minimal effort to pick up the bottom tier rewards for now.

fight4thedream

Having discussed the matter with Hi-Fi, we have decided to allow this thread to remain open because we understand the issue of cupcakes, muffins, brownies, steaks and such are an important element of game play for many players. However, we ask that you remember to keep discussion constructive and respectful. Any flaming and/or trolling posts will be dealt with harshly and risks having this thread locked. Please keep the discussion civil and on topic. Thank you.

grunth13

dsds wrote:

jobob wrote:

dsds wrote:

.Edit: It's not really healthy for a game to have such a huge disparity of points between a new player and a veteran. Really a 2000-4000 point difference between the top player and the lowest ranked player? Even if you put out cupcakes, the top players take back the points. It really only helps the top 50, but not really the bottom 200.

You mean it doesn't really help the top, but really only helps the bottom?

The bottom people can't get to the cupcakes. So how does it help them? It only helps the guys who are at the 4* or 5* level because they are the ones who can eat it. They don't get attacked as often as the lower end players so they have a much better chance at seeing a cupcake and eating it. They keep most of those points because no one in 2* land will take their points.

The trickle down effect quickly stops at most at rank 100 probably.

Actually, it depends on your roster MMR. I have 3 championed 5's in the high 450's to low 460's and I have to be within 200-300 points of the person baking to get their cupcake if a ton of people in my mmr are out. That means if I late start and people are already in the 2k range, I won't see a cc until I hit somewhere in the 1600+ (it gets worse the later you start). Now I have alliance mates who are in the 4 star meta who will start at the same time as me and they may start seeing cupcakes once they hit 900 to 1k. Therefore, I still have to climb a lot higher before I can see a cupcake versus the lower rosters who see it much earlier. Therefore, cupcake catching is more based on your MMR and score then it is based on the strength of your roster.

MarvelMan

dsds wrote:

The trickle down effect quickly stops at most at rank 100 probably.

I guarantee that is not true. While queuing cupcakes (over 900 pts, rank 70ish) Ive been hit by players who were just starting and had less than 200 pts. I will give you that those players had good rosters (equivalent to mine), but its not a rank thing. And ccing does trickle down from 5* to 4* to 3*, etc as Ive seen muffins eaten by 2* and 3* players.

broll

jobob wrote:

dsds wrote:

.Edit: It's not really healthy for a game to have such a huge disparity of points between a new player and a veteran. Really a 2000-4000 point difference between the top player and the lowest ranked player? Even if you put out cupcakes, the top players take back the points. It really only helps the top 50, but not really the bottom 200.

You mean it doesn't really help the top, but really only helps the bottom?

As someone who started at the bottom 6 months ago, it's never helped me... I've never been able to get higher than 800ish in a PvP event.

MarvelMan

fight4thedream wrote:

Having discussed the matter with Hi-Fi, we have decided to allow this thread to remain open because we understand the issue of cupcakes, muffins, brownies, steaks and such are an important element of game play for many players. However, we ask that you remember to keep discussion constructive and respectful. Any flaming and/or trolling posts will be dealt with harshly and risks having this thread locked. Please keep the discussion civil and on topic. Thank you.

We appreciate the opportunity. As you say, its an important thing to discuss given Hi-Fi's recent comment that they are undesired and soon to be addressed. Hopefully the conversation can flow from how/what/why to ways to improve the post-cc meta.

grunth13

broll wrote:

jobob wrote:

dsds wrote:

.Edit: It's not really healthy for a game to have such a huge disparity of points between a new player and a veteran. Really a 2000-4000 point difference between the top player and the lowest ranked player? Even if you put out cupcakes, the top players take back the points. It really only helps the top 50, but not really the bottom 200.

You mean it doesn't really help the top, but really only helps the bottom?

As someone who started at the bottom 6 months ago, it's never helped me... I've never been able to get higher than 800ish in a PvP event.

That may be because when you play, you have many high point targets in your MMR who are UNSHIELDED. Also, when not playing orgnanized play, you occasionally get a cupcake if you get high enough to break your MMR because a cupcake is only available for 30sec to 1 minute. Now if you knew when to find the cupcake, you would be able to search for it when it is called out...this is where you get the most benefit from cupcakes--eating one after the next until you start getting hit, at which point you bake for others.

MarvelMan

broll wrote:

jobob wrote:

dsds wrote:

.Edit: It's not really healthy for a game to have such a huge disparity of points between a new player and a veteran. Really a 2000-4000 point difference between the top player and the lowest ranked player? Even if you put out cupcakes, the top players take back the points. It really only helps the top 50, but not really the bottom 200.

You mean it doesn't really help the top, but really only helps the bottom?

As someone who started at the bottom 6 months ago, it's never helped me... I've never been able to get higher than 800ish in a PvP event.

Having people score higher results in point inflation for the entire slice. Without it, you likely never would have reached that 800 because your float point would have been lower.