Devs - Seasons Past infinite loop

Plastic

So the long weekend is over and by now I figured that we'd at least hear about an incoming fix to Seasons Past and the nonsense it's creating. More specifically the never ending chain it creates with Ulvenwald Hydra.

To be honest, I was hoping we'd get a hotfix as this seems like one of the most out of control card(s) right now. Especially since it's affecting events. I'd rather play 1000+ Chandra's with 3 loyalty Flameshot in a row than come across this combo.

Talk to us!

Mangus 73

Just had this combo in the event. Not fun.

speakupaskanswer

Totally agree, this is super annoying and unfun.

jimilinho_

I've mentioned this before too. If they're gonna fix runaway carriage they should definitely be fixing this too

N.b. Easy fix would be that it exiles itself after being cast. Fixes all issues without the need for a nerf

Plastic

jimilinho_ wrote:

I've mentioned this before too. If they're gonna fix runaway carriage they should definitely be fixing this too

N.b. Easy fix would be that it exiles itself after being cast. Fixes all issues without the need for a nerf

I agree that RC needs fixing but at least there are ways to build around that.

Seasons Past and Ulvenwald Hydra can force app shut down though and that's not OK.

shteev

Plastic wrote:

Seasons Past and Ulvenwald Hydra can force app shut down though and that's not OK.

Agreed. It's bad enough that the app is unstable now and causes the OS of my entire phone to slow down.

Hibernum_JC

Just an FYI - Seasons Past is getting changes in the next version. It is currently overtuned.

I am also looking at Ulvenwald Hydra.

Mcjordan

Hibernum_JC wrote:

Just an FYI - Seasons Past is getting changes in the next version. It is currently overtuned.

I am also looking at Ulvenwald Hydra.

I think Season's Past would work great if it just returned a creature and a support to your hand (not a spell). That way it wouldn't return itself, and it would still be playable.

Plastic

Mcjordan wrote:

Hibernum_JC wrote:

Just an FYI - Seasons Past is getting changes in the next version. It is currently overtuned.

I am also looking at Ulvenwald Hydra.

I think Season's Past would work great if it just returned a creature and a support to your hand (not a spell). That way it wouldn't return itself, and it would still be playable.

I'm sure they can make it fetch spells that aren't itself. Just like General Tazri can't fetch itself.

Hibernum_JC

Part of the change is that - it can no longer fetch itself or other copies of Seasons Past. I was hoping I could do something a bit different (I was exploring doing the gem conversion before the fetch) but the problem repeats itself when you have 3 copies of it. It would have been a lot less likely but still problematic (the odds the AI would do it are much lower).

In the next version, Seasons Past is no longer able to fetch itself or any copies of itself. This will completely eliminate the crazy loops with itself, while still remaining a very strong card. It's mana cost may also increase a bit.

Morphis

Hibernum_JC wrote:

Part of the change is that - it can no longer fetch itself or other copies of Seasons Past. I was hoping I could do something a bit different (I was exploring doing the gem conversion before the fetch) but the problem repeats itself when you have 3 copies of it. It would have been a lot less likely but still problematic (the odds the AI would do it are much lower).

In the next version, Seasons Past is no longer able to fetch itself or any copies of itself. This will completely eliminate the crazy loops with itself, while still remaining a very strong card. It's mana cost may also increase a bit.

Nice to see this change.
Mana increase I think is not really needed.
It has the same ratio of nissa renewal: 1 mana per gem converted.

Season past recur graveyard(could be somehow compared to drawing)
Nissa renewal heals for thirthy.

Theros

Hibernum_JC wrote:

Just an FYI - Seasons Past is getting changes in the next version. It is currently overtuned.

I am also looking at Ulvenwald Hydra.

gae's revenge too

Netatron

Morphis wrote:

Hibernum_JC wrote:

Part of the change is that - it can no longer fetch itself or other copies of Seasons Past. I was hoping I could do something a bit different (I was exploring doing the gem conversion before the fetch) but the problem repeats itself when you have 3 copies of it. It would have been a lot less likely but still problematic (the odds the AI would do it are much lower).

In the next version, Seasons Past is no longer able to fetch itself or any copies of itself. This will completely eliminate the crazy loops with itself, while still remaining a very strong card. It's mana cost may also increase a bit.

Nice to see this change.
Mana increase I think is not really needed.
It has the same ratio of nissa renewal: 1 mana per gem converted.

Season past recur graveyard(could be somehow compared to drawing)
Nissa renewal heals for thirthy.

There's nothing wrong with making it more expensive. Just make Nissa's Renewal a little more expensive too, and it'll still be one of the stronger mythics.

I'm also concerned about Harness the Storm.

Hibernum_JC

Netatron wrote:

Morphis wrote:

Hibernum_JC wrote:

Part of the change is that - it can no longer fetch itself or other copies of Seasons Past. I was hoping I could do something a bit different (I was exploring doing the gem conversion before the fetch) but the problem repeats itself when you have 3 copies of it. It would have been a lot less likely but still problematic (the odds the AI would do it are much lower).

In the next version, Seasons Past is no longer able to fetch itself or any copies of itself. This will completely eliminate the crazy loops with itself, while still remaining a very strong card. It's mana cost may also increase a bit.

Nice to see this change.
Mana increase I think is not really needed.
It has the same ratio of nissa renewal: 1 mana per gem converted.

Season past recur graveyard(could be somehow compared to drawing)
Nissa renewal heals for thirthy.

There's nothing wrong with making it more expensive. Just make Nissa's Renewal a little more expensive too, and it'll still be one of the stronger mythics.

I'm also concerned about Harness the Storm.

Harness the Storm is also on my list. I'm currently testing some changes to it. I'm curious to know how would you guys fix it.

Netatron

Hibernum_JC wrote:

Harness the Storm is also on my list. I'm currently testing some changes to it. I'm curious to know how would you guys fix it.

Maybe make it cast one extra copy of any spell you cast instead of returning cards? Or make the cards it returns not able to trigger another return, at least until end of turn?

nexus13

How about not putting Seasons Past in the graveyard equivalent when it is cast. Otherwise you're just kicking the can down the road until you get another card that pulls from the graveyard and then it and Seasons Past now loop together. Also this way it could cascade a couple of times if it were discarded from your hand but once it gets cast it disapears.

The hydra is powerful but I'd like to see how it fares without the looping before it gets changed. It's not hexproof so there are lots of answers.

madwren

Hibernum_JC wrote:

Netatron wrote:

Morphis wrote:

Hibernum_JC wrote:

Part of the change is that - it can no longer fetch itself or other copies of Seasons Past. I was hoping I could do something a bit different (I was exploring doing the gem conversion before the fetch) but the problem repeats itself when you have 3 copies of it. It would have been a lot less likely but still problematic (the odds the AI would do it are much lower).

In the next version, Seasons Past is no longer able to fetch itself or any copies of itself. This will completely eliminate the crazy loops with itself, while still remaining a very strong card. It's mana cost may also increase a bit.

Nice to see this change.
Mana increase I think is not really needed.
It has the same ratio of nissa renewal: 1 mana per gem converted.

Season past recur graveyard(could be somehow compared to drawing)
Nissa renewal heals for thirthy.

There's nothing wrong with making it more expensive. Just make Nissa's Renewal a little more expensive too, and it'll still be one of the stronger mythics.

I'm also concerned about Harness the Storm.

Harness the Storm is also on my list. I'm currently testing some changes to it. I'm curious to know how would you guys fix it.

One problem is that it creates cascades that keep the cycle going and stop it from fizzling out. Remove the gem destruction and see how it performs.

Plastic

Hibernum_JC wrote:

Harness the Storm is also on my list. I'm currently testing some changes to it. I'm curious to know how would you guys fix it.

What is the reason it destroys 3 gems? To give it the right to be mythic? What if it just brought a spell from the graveyard without gem destruction?

shteev

Hibernum_JC wrote:

Harness the Storm is also on my list. I'm currently testing some changes to it. I'm curious to know how would you guys fix it.

I have some pretty good ideas. My consultancy fee is £50 an hour, which I think is quite reasonable.

Chad739

Harness the storm isn't broken. But if you really wanted to change it, have the returned card cost 2 additional? That could stop long cycles. Seasons past's text should contain the phrase "exile Season's Past after its played". An increase in cost isn't necessary. RC should not lose hexproof or prevent damage completely, but instead lose prevent damage if blocked or blocking. Or an alternative would to give the current card shroud instead of hexproof. There, you saved paying Shteev £50 (I had to look for the £, Shteev!). Thanks for listening. --Wyrven

Reaganstorme

Hibernum_JC wrote:

Harness the Storm is also on my list. I'm currently testing some changes to it. I'm curious to know how would you guys fix it.

Make it lose 1 Shield for each returned card, and give it 5 Shields instead of 3. This should make it last long enough to feel like you'll get use out of it without it heading into infinite loop territory.