Devs - Seasons Past infinite loop

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Plastic
Plastic Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
edited September 2016 in MtGPQ General Discussion
So the long weekend is over and by now I figured that we'd at least hear about an incoming fix to Seasons Past and the nonsense it's creating. More specifically the never ending chain it creates with Ulvenwald Hydra.

To be honest, I was hoping we'd get a hotfix as this seems like one of the most out of control card(s) right now. Especially since it's affecting events. I'd rather play 1000+ Chandra's with 3 loyalty Flameshot in a row than come across this combo.

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Comments

  • Mangus 73
    Mangus 73 Posts: 109 Tile Toppler
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    Just had this combo in the event. Not fun.
  • speakupaskanswer
    speakupaskanswer Posts: 306 Mover and Shaker
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    Totally agree, this is super annoying and unfun.
  • jimilinho_
    jimilinho_ Posts: 292
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    I've mentioned this before too. If they're gonna fix runaway carriage they should definitely be fixing this too

    N.b. Easy fix would be that it exiles itself after being cast. Fixes all issues without the need for a nerf
  • Plastic
    Plastic Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
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    jimilinho_ wrote:
    I've mentioned this before too. If they're gonna fix runaway carriage they should definitely be fixing this too

    N.b. Easy fix would be that it exiles itself after being cast. Fixes all issues without the need for a nerf

    I agree that RC needs fixing but at least there are ways to build around that.

    Seasons Past and Ulvenwald Hydra can force app shut down though and that's not OK.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Plastic wrote:
    Seasons Past and Ulvenwald Hydra can force app shut down though and that's not OK.

    Agreed. It's bad enough that the app is unstable now and causes the OS of my entire phone to slow down.
  • Hibernum_JC
    Hibernum_JC Posts: 318 Mover and Shaker
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    Just an FYI - Seasons Past is getting changes in the next version. It is currently overtuned.

    I am also looking at Ulvenwald Hydra.
  • Mcjordan
    Mcjordan Posts: 82 Match Maker
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    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    Just an FYI - Seasons Past is getting changes in the next version. It is currently overtuned.

    I am also looking at Ulvenwald Hydra.

    I think Season's Past would work great if it just returned a creature and a support to your hand (not a spell). That way it wouldn't return itself, and it would still be playable.
  • Plastic
    Plastic Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
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    Mcjordan wrote:
    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    Just an FYI - Seasons Past is getting changes in the next version. It is currently overtuned.

    I am also looking at Ulvenwald Hydra.

    I think Season's Past would work great if it just returned a creature and a support to your hand (not a spell). That way it wouldn't return itself, and it would still be playable.

    I'm sure they can make it fetch spells that aren't itself. Just like General Tazri can't fetch itself.
  • Hibernum_JC
    Hibernum_JC Posts: 318 Mover and Shaker
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    Part of the change is that - it can no longer fetch itself or other copies of Seasons Past. I was hoping I could do something a bit different (I was exploring doing the gem conversion before the fetch) but the problem repeats itself when you have 3 copies of it. It would have been a lot less likely but still problematic (the odds the AI would do it are much lower).

    In the next version, Seasons Past is no longer able to fetch itself or any copies of itself. This will completely eliminate the crazy loops with itself, while still remaining a very strong card. It's mana cost may also increase a bit.
  • Morphis
    Morphis Posts: 975 Critical Contributor
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    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    Part of the change is that - it can no longer fetch itself or other copies of Seasons Past. I was hoping I could do something a bit different (I was exploring doing the gem conversion before the fetch) but the problem repeats itself when you have 3 copies of it. It would have been a lot less likely but still problematic (the odds the AI would do it are much lower).

    In the next version, Seasons Past is no longer able to fetch itself or any copies of itself. This will completely eliminate the crazy loops with itself, while still remaining a very strong card. It's mana cost may also increase a bit.
    Nice to see this change.
    Mana increase I think is not really needed.
    It has the same ratio of nissa renewal: 1 mana per gem converted.

    Season past recur graveyard(could be somehow compared to drawing)
    Nissa renewal heals for thirthy.
  • Theros
    Theros Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
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    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    Just an FYI - Seasons Past is getting changes in the next version. It is currently overtuned.

    I am also looking at Ulvenwald Hydra.

    gae's revenge too
  • Netatron
    Netatron Posts: 147
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    Morphis wrote:
    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    Part of the change is that - it can no longer fetch itself or other copies of Seasons Past. I was hoping I could do something a bit different (I was exploring doing the gem conversion before the fetch) but the problem repeats itself when you have 3 copies of it. It would have been a lot less likely but still problematic (the odds the AI would do it are much lower).

    In the next version, Seasons Past is no longer able to fetch itself or any copies of itself. This will completely eliminate the crazy loops with itself, while still remaining a very strong card. It's mana cost may also increase a bit.
    Nice to see this change.
    Mana increase I think is not really needed.
    It has the same ratio of nissa renewal: 1 mana per gem converted.

    Season past recur graveyard(could be somehow compared to drawing)
    Nissa renewal heals for thirthy.

    There's nothing wrong with making it more expensive. Just make Nissa's Renewal a little more expensive too, and it'll still be one of the stronger mythics.

    I'm also concerned about Harness the Storm.
  • Hibernum_JC
    Hibernum_JC Posts: 318 Mover and Shaker
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    Netatron wrote:
    Morphis wrote:
    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    Part of the change is that - it can no longer fetch itself or other copies of Seasons Past. I was hoping I could do something a bit different (I was exploring doing the gem conversion before the fetch) but the problem repeats itself when you have 3 copies of it. It would have been a lot less likely but still problematic (the odds the AI would do it are much lower).

    In the next version, Seasons Past is no longer able to fetch itself or any copies of itself. This will completely eliminate the crazy loops with itself, while still remaining a very strong card. It's mana cost may also increase a bit.
    Nice to see this change.
    Mana increase I think is not really needed.
    It has the same ratio of nissa renewal: 1 mana per gem converted.

    Season past recur graveyard(could be somehow compared to drawing)
    Nissa renewal heals for thirthy.

    There's nothing wrong with making it more expensive. Just make Nissa's Renewal a little more expensive too, and it'll still be one of the stronger mythics.

    I'm also concerned about Harness the Storm.

    Harness the Storm is also on my list. I'm currently testing some changes to it. I'm curious to know how would you guys fix it.
  • Netatron
    Netatron Posts: 147
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    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    Harness the Storm is also on my list. I'm currently testing some changes to it. I'm curious to know how would you guys fix it.

    Maybe make it cast one extra copy of any spell you cast instead of returning cards? Or make the cards it returns not able to trigger another return, at least until end of turn?
  • nexus13
    nexus13 Posts: 191 Tile Toppler
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    How about not putting Seasons Past in the graveyard equivalent when it is cast. Otherwise you're just kicking the can down the road until you get another card that pulls from the graveyard and then it and Seasons Past now loop together. Also this way it could cascade a couple of times if it were discarded from your hand but once it gets cast it disapears.

    The hydra is powerful but I'd like to see how it fares without the looping before it gets changed. It's not hexproof so there are lots of answers.
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,231 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2016
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    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    Netatron wrote:
    Morphis wrote:
    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    Part of the change is that - it can no longer fetch itself or other copies of Seasons Past. I was hoping I could do something a bit different (I was exploring doing the gem conversion before the fetch) but the problem repeats itself when you have 3 copies of it. It would have been a lot less likely but still problematic (the odds the AI would do it are much lower).

    In the next version, Seasons Past is no longer able to fetch itself or any copies of itself. This will completely eliminate the crazy loops with itself, while still remaining a very strong card. It's mana cost may also increase a bit.
    Nice to see this change.
    Mana increase I think is not really needed.
    It has the same ratio of nissa renewal: 1 mana per gem converted.

    Season past recur graveyard(could be somehow compared to drawing)
    Nissa renewal heals for thirthy.

    There's nothing wrong with making it more expensive. Just make Nissa's Renewal a little more expensive too, and it'll still be one of the stronger mythics.

    I'm also concerned about Harness the Storm.

    Harness the Storm is also on my list. I'm currently testing some changes to it. I'm curious to know how would you guys fix it.

    One problem is that it creates cascades that keep the cycle going and stop it from fizzling out. Remove the gem destruction and see how it performs.
  • Plastic
    Plastic Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
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    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    Harness the Storm is also on my list. I'm currently testing some changes to it. I'm curious to know how would you guys fix it.

    What is the reason it destroys 3 gems? To give it the right to be mythic? What if it just brought a spell from the graveyard without gem destruction?
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    Harness the Storm is also on my list. I'm currently testing some changes to it. I'm curious to know how would you guys fix it.

    I have some pretty good ideas. My consultancy fee is £50 an hour, which I think is quite reasonable.
  • Chad739
    Chad739 Posts: 27 Just Dropped In
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    Harness the storm isn't broken. But if you really wanted to change it, have the returned card cost 2 additional? That could stop long cycles. Seasons past's text should contain the phrase "exile Season's Past after its played". An increase in cost isn't necessary. RC should not lose hexproof or prevent damage completely, but instead lose prevent damage if blocked or blocking. Or an alternative would to give the current card shroud instead of hexproof. There, you saved paying Shteev £50 (I had to look for the £, Shteev!). Thanks for listening. --Wyrven
  • Reaganstorme
    Reaganstorme Posts: 334 Mover and Shaker
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    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    Harness the Storm is also on my list. I'm currently testing some changes to it. I'm curious to know how would you guys fix it.

    Make it lose 1 Shield for each returned card, and give it 5 Shields instead of 3. This should make it last long enough to feel like you'll get use out of it without it heading into infinite loop territory.

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