Devs - Seasons Past infinite loop

13

Comments

  • Buret0
    Buret0 Posts: 1,591
    Just watched an infinite loop season's past suicide with my scab clan berserker. lol
  • Morphis
    Morphis Posts: 975 Critical Contributor
    Buret0 wrote:
    Just watched an infinite loop season's past suicide with my scab clan berserker. lol
    Didn't think of it
    icon_lol.gif
    Must've felt so good! icon_cool.gif
  • ridfrenzy
    ridfrenzy Posts: 127 Tile Toppler
    Surely the simplest change to Harness is just reduce the gem destruction, let it kill a single gem then you have a drastically reduced chance for chaining but still have the possibility. I always saw the gem destruction as lightning hitting the ground so I would be sad to see it removed completely.

    Alternatively you could have an effect like sphinx on cards brought back and have the mana increased by 3-4 for that turn to hinder the chaining. The Main issue is really the low cost spells people are using to create the loops.
  • Morphis
    Morphis Posts: 975 Critical Contributor
    ridfrenzy wrote:
    Alternatively you could have an effect like sphinx on cards brought back and have the mana increased by 3-4 for that turn to hinder the chaining. The Main issue is really the low cost spells people are using to create the loops.
    That's basically what I suggested.
    It needs testing to see the right amount of mana increase but I think 2-3 max should be enough.
    It does not need to totally remove any chance of recast.
    It needs to make loop less likely to happen and if it happens make it last less on average.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    The devs just need to make up their minds whether they want casting loops or not. Blow up gems or add mana if you want loops... don't if you don't. You can't make cards which combo infinitely only a bit, or cards which are cool when players loop them but somehow not annoying when the AI does it.
  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 978 Critical Contributor
    for now I'm'assuming the devs plan on the possibility of loops, which is fine by me, but some thought should be put in to make sure the experience isn't'annoying or creates a situation where the ai turn never ends...
  • Hibernum_JC
    Hibernum_JC Posts: 318 Mover and Shaker
    shteev wrote:
    The devs just need to make up their minds whether they want casting loops or not. Blow up gems or add mana if you want loops... don't if you don't. You can't make cards which combo infinitely only a bit, or cards which are cool when players loop them but somehow not annoying when the AI does it.

    The problem with loops is that it's fine if it loops like once or twice, but it's not fine if they loop 10+ times. If you get a lucky loop once or twice, it's not the end of the world (hence why Harness the Storm isn't as bad as Seasons Past, because you are never guaranteed cascades and enough mana to loop infinitely, but Seasons Past gives you 20+ mana every time it's cast, so it's much more of an issue).

    I'm still unsure about Harness the Storm - the more I play with it, the more it's not too bad since the loops aren't infinite, the AI certainly isn't going to loop like crazy. The one change I have which is fine is that it'll return the spell after the gem destruction, so this way it can still loop if you have 3+ spells that you can loop if you're lucky, but it'll still tone it down a bit.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    The problem with loops is that it's fine if it loops like once or twice, but it's not fine if they loop 10+ times.


    Well, you're the guys who designed [CARD NAME REDACTED BECAUSE PQMTG- WILL COMPLAIN IF I TELL EVERYONE ABOUT IT], [CARD NAME REDACTED BECAUSE PQMTG- WILL COMPLAIN IF I TELL EVERYONE ABOUT IT], and [CARD NAME REDACTED BECAUSE PQMTG- WILL COMPLAIN IF I TELL EVERYONE ABOUT IT]. They don't get played anywhere else *except* in Harness the Storm decks, do they? Your metrics must surely be telling you how many people are playing with them. I've just got the third one myself.
  • Barrelrolla
    Barrelrolla Posts: 289
    Interesting.
    I'm pretty sure I know one of them. Maybe I know the second. But I wonder what's the third icon_e_biggrin.gif
    But yeah, the two cards I can think of I've seen only in Harness decks
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    Or! Speed up the animations. We've all been asking for this for ages.

    Put an option in the settings for fast animations. Anything that goes zwooshy-zwar!! around the screen, we don't need that. It just makes our phones overheat, and your app crash when we close it.
  • tm00
    tm00 Posts: 155 Tile Toppler
    I don't see how harness not looping would stop anyone from comboing it with devil playground, paying 8 for an 8/8 is still extremely efficient.
  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 978 Critical Contributor
    Ithe issue isn't, or shouldn't be about losing to combo decks, because let's be honest if the ai can set up a combo correctly then it deserves to win. It's about sitting through a long long set of animations with nothing to do. Seasons past not chaining on it self is a good change, because it could set a no win cycle. And actually of the ai is pumping a creature nonstop, then you are beat...concede allready.

    Devs please change the animations, that would help a lot. And let us lose from all set up cycle decks.
  • zaann85
    zaann85 Posts: 119 Tile Toppler
    OMG the crying never ends. Lets nerf this amazing card cause your bad. Scab clan berserker auto wins against this deck. Remember this is still a single player game. Stop making your hard earned cards worse!
  • Plastic
    Plastic Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
    zaann85 wrote:
    OMG the crying never ends. Lets nerf this amazing card cause your bad. Scab clan berserker auto wins against this deck. Remember this is still a single player game. Stop making your hard earned cards worse!

    OK, so let's say people playing manage to get a skaab berserker out. Cool, infinite loop will kill AI.

    What about every other color? Tough ****?

    In any case, if a card can loop to the point a player is forced to wait an amount of time for one turn to end than the time it takes an average full match, there's a problem.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    zaann85 wrote:
    OMG the crying never ends. Lets nerf this amazing card cause your bad. Scab clan berserker auto wins against this deck. Remember this is still a single player game. Stop making your hard earned cards worse!


    Hiya! Thankyou for providing feedback on our feedback, but unfortunately this is a forum for providing feedback on Magic the Gathering: Puzzle Quest! It's an easy mistake to make.
  • Morphis
    Morphis Posts: 975 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2016
    Hibernum_JC wrote:
    shteev wrote:
    The devs just need to make up their minds whether they want casting loops or not. Blow up gems or add mana if you want loops... don't if you don't. You can't make cards which combo infinitely only a bit, or cards which are cool when players loop them but somehow not annoying when the AI does it.

    The problem with loops is that it's fine if it loops like once or twice, but it's not fine if they loop 10+ times. If you get a lucky loop once or twice, it's not the end of the world (hence why Harness the Storm isn't as bad as Seasons Past, because you are never guaranteed cascades and enough mana to loop infinitely, but Seasons Past gives you 20+ mana every time it's cast, so it's much more of an issue).

    I'm still unsure about Harness the Storm - the more I play with it, the more it's not too bad since the loops aren't infinite, the AI certainly isn't going to loop like crazy. The one change I have which is fine is that it'll return the spell after the gem destruction, so this way it can still loop if you have 3+ spells that you can loop if you're lucky, but it'll still tone it down a bit.
    Getting card after destruction would nerf the "normal" use more than the "loop".

    To give more consistency to loop you get many low cast spells.
    This is vital cause if you cascade into gem match you want to ensure that more than 1 spell will be filled to overcome strings of "bad luck" where you get no gem match.
    So for loop built decks you basically are like "removing" a card. If they are using 5 spells to loop now it will have the same result as having 4 spells after this change. It will reduce loop potential but not much.

    In Normal use basically you make it totally useless loop wise.
    Most of the times I manage to make it loop, I cast just 1-2 of the spells I got back from graveyard and then it ends. Taking basically one away probably will nerf its potential quite a lot.

    I think the only proper solution can be one that somehow will impact really cheap spell loops more than other spell loops.
    Because if you take away cheap spells the card is working totally fine.

    Edit: by cheap I mean 1-2-3 mana spells. 4 mana is already in itself unlikely to be able to loop and not for long strings anyways.

    In the end for the way I use harness would need no change at all and anyone facing my decks that use but not abuse it(decks I play, not decks made to annoy when used by ai) would not complain about it more than you can complain of any good mythic.
    So I hope that any change made does not make it unviable for me.
  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 978 Critical Contributor
    Plastic wrote:
    zaann85 wrote:
    OMG the crying never ends. Lets nerf this amazing card cause your bad. Scab clan berserker auto wins against this deck. Remember this is still a single player game. Stop making your hard earned cards worse!

    OK, so let's say people playing manage to get a skaab berserker out. Cool, infinite loop will kill AI.

    What about every other color? Tough ****?

    In any case, if a card can loop to the point a player is forced to wait an amount of time for one turn to end than the time it takes an average full match, there's a problem.
    Plastic, the problem is not about losing to a loop but waiting for it to play out.
    Nerfing cards that enable loops defeat their purpose. In my opinion it's a quality of life not a game balance problem.

    Maybe shortcutting animations after a certain amount of cards played would do the trick.

    Losing to the ai should never be a reason to nerf something
  • Plastic
    Plastic Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
    andrewvanmarle wrote:
    Plastic wrote:
    zaann85 wrote:
    OMG the crying never ends. Lets nerf this amazing card cause your bad. Scab clan berserker auto wins against this deck. Remember this is still a single player game. Stop making your hard earned cards worse!

    OK, so let's say people playing manage to get a skaab berserker out. Cool, infinite loop will kill AI.

    What about every other color? Tough ****?

    In any case, if a card can loop to the point a player is forced to wait an amount of time for one turn to end than the time it takes an average full match, there's a problem.
    Plastic, the problem is not about losing to a loop but waiting for it to play out.
    Nerfing cards that enable loops defeat their purpose. In my opinion it's a quality of life not a game balance problem.

    Maybe shortcutting animations after a certain amount of cards played would do the trick.

    Losing to the ai should never be a reason to nerf something

    I agree. I'm not complaining about losing to AI. I'm not ok with being forced to either wait 5+ mins for 1 turn (with potential to happen again vs same opponent that match) or quit the game to move forward.
  • andrewvanmarle
    andrewvanmarle Posts: 978 Critical Contributor
    Then the solution should be simple:after 5 animanions dispence with them and stop any card played after the 100th in one turn.

    That would mean that the loop would run it's course, but it'd be much faster than now and would run infinitely.
  • supernatural
    supernatural Posts: 16
    With harness the storm you could have it destroy 1 gem per mana spent. This would still make it useful and reduce chain effects.

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