How could someone attack me 3x in a row?

dsds

Fightmastermpq wrote:

dsds wrote:

He said big targets. How likely is that target to shield when you fight it the 4th time?

It's 100% likely because he is checking to make sure his target is shielded before he attacks it. Not because he is nice, or due to some preconceived "etiquette", but because hitting him unshielded and taking his points means that he is going to be worth less the 2nd time around, potentially causing him to not make his 1300 pt target.

When you hit shielded targets you still get points, but they lose none. This is the fastest way to add points to the slice - something that helps everyone. When you skip you load several players into your queue at once - often the same players multiple times. So shielded opponents can still show up in your queue from your cache after just a handful of skips.

dsds wrote:

What about attacks on you while you are playing? You'd have to play during a pretty quiet time or have really strong 5* characters that the majority of players do not have.

Or hitting cupcakes that can be beaten quickly - faster than someone will be able to beat your a-team. Typically a 3/4* team can easily beat 3 cupcakes in the time it takes a similar 3/4* team to beat them.

dsds wrote:

Also if you are going from 1000-1300 pts. You would climb about 225-275 pts, would you still have the same queue? I guess if you coordinate, this would work more consistently, otherwise it's not guaranteed to work.

What? Yes. Once you queue a target it stays until you fight it, skip it, or someone hits you (can't happen if you are shielded). This is what shield hopping is. You shield, then while shielded you skip targets until you find those juicy 70+ pt cupcakes. This is obviously much easier and cheaper if you are coordinating, but not at all required. Once you have 3 cupcakes queued up and all your targets are shielded you break your shield and hit all 3, then go back to each node and skip until you find one again and hit it a second time. Usually you will have at least one that you can double, sometimes more, and sometimes you can even get triples if you are lucky. After 4 fights you shield, check the leaderboard, and if you still haven't hit your goal you start the process over. A 300 pt hop is a little ambitious, but usually you can count on 200 pts if you put in the time to find those big targets.

I know how cupcaking works and how this queue thing works quite well since I've been playing for a while. I was referring to the point about queuing 4 people. You can only queue a maximum of 3. Once you hit all 3 of your immediate queues (because those are sure things and you want to hit them before it is replaced by a retaliate), then you are going to search for the 4th queue which was the first one you hit once you release your shield (this is what another forum member was referring to how the first queue, you can get the queue back later if you keep skipping). When searching for that first queue to hit again, that person might have shielded and may not be visible anymore.

Here's what I am trying to confirm so you understand. Yes there are 3 immediate queues you can see and the game caches other queues behind it to save from having to contact the server again. What other player's have suggested is that the 1st queue if you attack it, it goes back into your hidden cache of queues that you cannot immediately see but if you keep skipping, you will see again. So if that 1st queue shields between the time you fight your 2nd or 3rd fight during your shield hop, does it disappear from your queue cache or is it there forever once it's in your cache?

Kjeldbjerg

MarkersMake wrote:

Kjeldbjerg wrote:

100 HP individual to 725 pts plus 50 HP if you're in a t250 alliance. 150 HP each event.

I think you still haven't grasped shield hopping, since you don't think you can use the 3hr shield.

And everything is not a myth, just because you can't get it to work after 1 try

He's saying he can't shield "hop", not that he can't use the 3hr shield. Because a hop implies the use of a second shield.

If he uses 2 shields, that's 225hp per event, which is a best case (t250 alliance, actually reaches 725 on his hop) *loss* of 75 hp per event. If he's not in a t250 alliance, it's a loss of 125 per event, (and god help him if he gets unlucky during his hop and doesn't manage to hit 725).

It's not that the strategy is hard to understand, it's simply not usable for him yet. This is what is frustrating about advice that is presented like this. It presumes that the problem is with the player ("it's simple - I can do it, why can't you?") when it's just not possible (or at least not sustainable) until your roster can support it.

Sorry, still not getting it.

A hop does not imply a second shield, if we are aiming for progression only.
Get as high as you can, use the 3 hr shield. Use the 3hr to queue some targets.
Then you hit those targets hard and fast, until you hopefully hit your intended progression goal. No need for the second shield and you have spent only 75 hp.
And there will still be time at the end of the event to reclimb a bit of the retals.

Kjeldbjerg

dsds wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

dsds wrote:

He said big targets. How likely is that target to shield when you fight it the 4th time?

It's 100% likely because he is checking to make sure his target is shielded before he attacks it. Not because he is nice, or due to some preconceived "etiquette", but because hitting him unshielded and taking his points means that he is going to be worth less the 2nd time around, potentially causing him to not make his 1300 pt target.

When you hit shielded targets you still get points, but they lose none. This is the fastest way to add points to the slice - something that helps everyone. When you skip you load several players into your queue at once - often the same players multiple times. So shielded opponents can still show up in your queue from your cache after just a handful of skips.

dsds wrote:

What about attacks on you while you are playing? You'd have to play during a pretty quiet time or have really strong 5* characters that the majority of players do not have.

Or hitting cupcakes that can be beaten quickly - faster than someone will be able to beat your a-team. Typically a 3/4* team can easily beat 3 cupcakes in the time it takes a similar 3/4* team to beat them.

dsds wrote:

Also if you are going from 1000-1300 pts. You would climb about 225-275 pts, would you still have the same queue? I guess if you coordinate, this would work more consistently, otherwise it's not guaranteed to work.

What? Yes. Once you queue a target it stays until you fight it, skip it, or someone hits you (can't happen if you are shielded). This is what shield hopping is. You shield, then while shielded you skip targets until you find those juicy 70+ pt cupcakes. This is obviously much easier and cheaper if you are coordinating, but not at all required. Once you have 3 cupcakes queued up and all your targets are shielded you break your shield and hit all 3, then go back to each node and skip until you find one again and hit it a second time. Usually you will have at least one that you can double, sometimes more, and sometimes you can even get triples if you are lucky. After 4 fights you shield, check the leaderboard, and if you still haven't hit your goal you start the process over. A 300 pt hop is a little ambitious, but usually you can count on 200 pts if you put in the time to find those big targets.

I know how cupcaking works and how this queue thing works quite well since I've been playing for a while. I was referring to the point about queuing 4 people. You can only queue a maximum of 3. Once you hit all 3 of your immediate queues (because those are sure things and you want to hit them before it is replaced by a retaliate), then you are going to search for the 4th queue which was the first one you hit once you release your shield (this is what another forum member was referring to how the first queue, you can get the queue back later if you keep skipping). When searching for that first queue to hit again, that person might have shielded and may not be visible anymore.

Here's what I am trying to confirm so you understand. Yes there are 3 immediate queues you can see and the game caches other queues behind it to save from having to contact the server again. What other player's have suggested is that the 1st queue if you attack it, it goes back into your hidden cache of queues that you cannot immediately see but if you keep skipping, you will see again. So if that 1st queue shields between the time you fight your 2nd or 3rd fight during your shield hop, does it disappear from your queue cache or is it there forever once it's in your cache?

The q is in cache until the app reloads. Has nothing to do with whether the player shields in the meantime or not.

MarvelMan

dsds wrote:

Here's what I am trying to confirm so you understand. Yes there are 3 immediate queues you can see and the game caches other queues behind it to save from having to contact the server again. What other player's have suggested is that the 1st queue if you attack it, it goes back into your hidden cache of queues that you cannot immediately see but if you keep skipping, you will see again. So if that 1st queue shields between the time you fight your 2nd or 3rd fight during your shield hop, does it disappear from your queue cache or is it there forever once it's in your cache?

To reiterate, do NOT hit all three queues before skipping. Hit the third (C node), THEN skip on THAT node. After 6-8 skips, then go hit nodes A and B. Im going on less than 3hrs of sleep and cant pull in why, but I recall receiving a logical explanation as to why it matters.

It WONT matter if that last high point target you queued is shielded or not, as the game transferred a batch of 6-8 opponents and they could be in that batch multiple times (due to the mmr issues where you see the same person over and over and over and.....). As long as you dont close the game, or play anything else in it, that batch will still be there when you unshield. Ive held cached queues for hours before, and found that third high value target sitting behind the visible queue on node C.

Huatimus

The last target that you Q has a good chance to be cached and can be doubled or even tripled. If you're hitting in the wrong order, you might lose the cache though. So you're not looking to hit your first target twice since he'd be shielded and not visible anymore.

TLDR: You're looking to double/triple the last target that you Q.

MarkersMake

Kjeldbjerg wrote:

Sorry, still not getting it.

A hop does not imply a second shield, if we are aiming for progression only.
Get as high as you can, use the 3 hr shield. Use the 3hr to queue some targets.
Then you hit those targets hard and fast, until you hopefully hit your intended progression goal. No need for the second shield and you have spent only 75 hp.
And there will still be time at the end of the event to reclimb a bit of the retals.

Fair enough. If the goal is only progression, that's totally viable.

Is the key to the fast hop simply a matter of experience and luck, then? Being able to queue the right targets, using the right boosts, and having the right team available (rostered/covered/champed/boosted)? Or is timing your hop at a quiet time so that you don't get hit during your hop more important? Or is it just a combination of everything?

MarvelMan

MarkersMake wrote:

Is the key to the fast hop simply a matter of experience and luck, then? Being able to queue the right targets, using the right boosts, and having the right team available (rostered/covered/champed/boosted)? Or is timing your hop at a quiet time so that you don't get hit during your hop more important? Or is it just a combination of everything?

Its a combination. And because getting the right combination is so difficult, outside communication/collaboration was born.

Linkster79

Fightmastermpq wrote:

It's not broken, it's competitive.

No it isn't. How many battles between the top tier players are for 1st place? Would a Player A from X alliance deliberately and knowingly beat Player B from the same alliance to win that coveted top spot? How about Player C from X alliance repeatedly beating Player D from from Y alliance that are part of the same friendly alliance family?

Versus as it stands is a million miles away from being competitive at the very top. In those higher echelons it is all extremely friendly and how do you do where as in the mid to low ranks it really is competitive for the awards that players actually need.

Kjeldbjerg

MarvelMan wrote:

MarkersMake wrote:

Is the key to the fast hop simply a matter of experience and luck, then? Being able to queue the right targets, using the right boosts, and having the right team available (rostered/covered/champed/boosted)? Or is timing your hop at a quiet time so that you don't get hit during your hop more important? Or is it just a combination of everything?

Its a combination. And because getting the right combination is so difficult, outside communication/collaboration was born.

Yeah, it's a combo. Sometimes you use the boosted characters, other times you have your go to teams (stormneto, if/cage, im/ice etc). The more health your team has or the more annoying it is, the longer you can hop without getting hit.
Being in a recognized alliance also helps, since you are protected from at least some hits that way.

Fightmastermpq

Linkster79 wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

It's not broken, it's competitive.

No it isn't. How many battles between the top tier players are for 1st place? Would a Player A from X alliance deliberately and knowingly beat Player B from the same alliance to win that coveted top spot? How about Player C from X alliance repeatedly beating Player D from from Y alliance that are part of the same friendly alliance family?

Would they attack them directly? No, that would be dumb as they would be hurting their own alliance score, but they will actively work to outscore their friends - this type of competition among friends happens all the time. Not to mention unfriendly alliances coming in to crash the party.

carrion_pigeons

Fightmastermpq wrote:

It's part of the game. It's what makes it competitive. It's what makes it fun.

First sentence? Sure, statement of fact.

Third sentence? Not to my taste, but okay.

Second sentence? I kinda don't think so? The ability to get revenge on a dude who doesn't know he did anything wrong isn't what makes a game competitive. It's pretty obvious that a lot of CCers think that since they're being so "nice" to everyone in their shard that this gives them license to pound random people into dust under pretty flimsy pretexts, but the reality is that just makes them bullies, and last I heard, bullies are among the people least interested in real competition.

morph3us

carrion pigeons wrote:

The ability to get revenge on a dude who doesn't know he did anything wrong isn't what makes a game competitive. It's pretty obvious that a lot of CCers think that since they're being so "nice" to everyone in their shard that this gives them license to pound random people into dust under pretty flimsy pretexts, but the reality is that just makes them bullies, and last I heard, bullies are among the people least interested in real competition.

There appears to be a misconception that it's common practice amongst CCer to "punish" people who hit them when they're baking. That's not true, not at least in the battle chats I've been in. Snipers who deliberately hit cakes to suppress scores are very active in the LINE community too, and are well known, and they're the people with whom there's a bit of fun back and forth going on. The usual messages you see when a baker gets hit by a random go something like, "Hit by random. Oh, well." "Who? Has anyone ever heard of this guy?" And then life goes on.

To reiterate, I think Astralgazer probably hit a trapcake from a guy who was sandbagging and farming for iso, which is why he got tapped a couple of times later.

Astralgazer

morph3us wrote:

To reiterate, I think Astralgazer probably hit a trapcake from a guy who was sandbagging and farming for iso, which is why he got tapped a couple of times later.

If he's an exception, and his kind of behavior is not typical among the high-end players, then I should wait for the devs to address the cupcake issue (which I read in other post that they are looking into it).

Anyhow, of all the 112 posts so far in this thread, I only find two posts that are usable for me; Bowgentle advising to make a dash at 4.5 hour mark; and aa25 advising to hover at 400 then push for 725 when it's quiet. After trading barbs back and forth, these two have my thanks.

However, it doesn't address the fact that PVP is a free for all brawl that will pit players with vastly different strength against one another. I remember UFC got a rap for doing this, and thus they introduced bouts divided into classes. It still would be more fun getting punched by a roughly equal opponent (which proves that they are more skilled player than you); than getting stomped by a giant who won just because they have bigger fists.

GurlBYE

Kjeldbjerg wrote:

Whine whine whine...

F2P here, hit 1.3k every event and yet my life doesn't revolve around mpq.

When a new pvp event starts, I play when I have time and get to my float point, which is around 600 for me. This usually takes 30 min or so, which can be spread out.

Then, when I have another 30 min dedicated, I push hard from 600 to around 1k. Put up a 3 hr or 8 hr shield. In that period, i queue 4 big targets and then I need 10 min for my final hop to 1.3k.

All done with 1 shield, 2 at most, no money spent , little more than an hour invested over a 3 day period and no families neglected.

And the same principle applies to whichever progression is your target. Get to your float point, let your hp recharge, and then hit fast until you reach your goal.

i wanna go back here.

Free to play or not,

how long have you been playing and what sorta brackets are you in and what is your roster like that you are hitting 400 points in 30 minutes.

Assuming they were all 70 during your climb from 600 to 1000 (which isn't possible based on how scoring works unless all your targets are 2000+)
you are sitting on champed 4 star roster i take it?
Doing a lot of research on 3 stars, none quite hit hard enough to take out the 10k minimum health 5 stars have, let alone the slightly leveled ones, or the champed 3's and 4's you bump into.

i'm just super duper curious.

Also queuing 4 targets is intriguing (if possible) but still wouldn't add up for either climb, because that would only hit 280 points, with their values shifting as you move up.


anyway

as an aside, the game is set up currently that by the time that the people who are most negatively effected by such things have the rosters to fight back, the 4 star transition will take longer due to dilution (there are more 4 stars than 1st place wins available during a single season of pvp)

The 5 star tier will become the new norm and 6 will take over the new untouchable spot, or whatever they introduce next.

I mean these same discussions were here last year and the advice of get more fully leveled and non soft capped 3 stars was the rampant advice.

Now the literal advice is CHAMP more 4 stars.

Covers haven't been flowing as loosely as the metagame has advanced.

And 5 star meat shields hurt the 3 and 2 star tier much more than people care to acknowledge.

Bowgentle

GurlBYE wrote:

Kjeldbjerg wrote:

Whine whine whine...

F2P here, hit 1.3k every event and yet my life doesn't revolve around mpq.

When a new pvp event starts, I play when I have time and get to my float point, which is around 600 for me. This usually takes 30 min or so, which can be spread out.

Then, when I have another 30 min dedicated, I push hard from 600 to around 1k. Put up a 3 hr or 8 hr shield. In that period, i queue 4 big targets and then I need 10 min for my final hop to 1.3k.

All done with 1 shield, 2 at most, no money spent , little more than an hour invested over a 3 day period and no families neglected.

And the same principle applies to whichever progression is your target. Get to your float point, let your hp recharge, and then hit fast until you reach your goal.

i wanna go back here.

Free to play or not,

how long have you been playing and what sorta brackets are you in and what is your roster like that you are hitting 400 points in 30 minutes.

Assuming they were all 70 during your climb from 600 to 1000 (which isn't possible based on how scoring works unless all your targets are 2000+)
you are sitting on champed 4 star roster i take it?
Doing a lot of research on 3 stars, none quite hit hard enough to take out the 10k minimum health 5 stars have, let alone the slightly leveled ones, or the champed 3's and 4's you bump into.

i'm just super duper curious.

Also queuing 4 targets is intriguing (if possible) but still wouldn't add up for either climb, because that would only hit 280 points, with their values shifting as you move up.


anyway

as an aside, the game is set up currently that by the time that the people who are most negatively effected by such things have the rosters to fight back, the 4 star transition will take longer due to dilution (there are more 4 stars than 1st place wins available during a single season of pvp)

The 5 star tier will become the new norm and 6 will take over the new untouchable spot, or whatever they introduce next.

I mean these same discussions were here last year and the advice of get more fully leveled and non soft capped 3 stars was the rampant advice.

Now the literal advice is CHAMP more 4 stars.

Covers haven't been flowing as loosely as the metagame has advanced.

And 5 star meat shields hurt the 3 and 2 star tier much more than people care to acknowledge.

The better your roster, the faster you can climb to stupid points.
That's the upside of MMR - if you can consistently beat the crazy tough teams the game throws at you, you can climb on nothing but 75 pointers, if you start sufficiently late.
With a 5* roster you can easily go from 0-1500+ in 90 minutes in the last 8 or 4 hours of slice 1 and 4.
Just avoid s2 lol.

Kjeldbjerg

GurlBYE wrote:

Kjeldbjerg wrote:

Whine whine whine...

F2P here, hit 1.3k every event and yet my life doesn't revolve around mpq.

When a new pvp event starts, I play when I have time and get to my float point, which is around 600 for me. This usually takes 30 min or so, which can be spread out.

Then, when I have another 30 min dedicated, I push hard from 600 to around 1k. Put up a 3 hr or 8 hr shield. In that period, i queue 4 big targets and then I need 10 min for my final hop to 1.3k.

All done with 1 shield, 2 at most, no money spent , little more than an hour invested over a 3 day period and no families neglected.

And the same principle applies to whichever progression is your target. Get to your float point, let your hp recharge, and then hit fast until you reach your goal.

i wanna go back here.

Free to play or not,

how long have you been playing and what sorta brackets are you in and what is your roster like that you are hitting 400 points in 30 minutes.

Assuming they were all 70 during your climb from 600 to 1000 (which isn't possible based on how scoring works unless all your targets are 2000+)
you are sitting on champed 4 star roster i take it?
Doing a lot of research on 3 stars, none quite hit hard enough to take out the 10k minimum health 5 stars have, let alone the slightly leveled ones, or the champed 3's and 4's you bump into.

i'm just super duper curious.

Also queuing 4 targets is intriguing (if possible) but still wouldn't add up for either climb, because that would only hit 280 points, with their values.

600 + days and 4 star rosters.

Assuming all targets are worth 40 pts, that's 10 matches in 30 min, 3 min per match, that sounds about right.

And when I q my final 4 (I mean 4, 60% of the time it works everytime) , all will be high value targets who are shielded, thus all being worth 75 pts every hit, giving me 300 pts.

And there are combos like if/cage, if/cyc, im40/mags that can big fast dmg in 3* land, to get you to 800 or 1k.

And for them to be worth 70 pts to me, the point difference only needs to 400 pts, not the 1k+ you mention.

MaxxPowerz

Yeah, PVP is broken. For the amount of effort it takes just to get the 3* reward is laughable. Coordinating with people outside of the game is a major design flaw, as is spending tons of hp to stay constantly shielded. For that reason I refuse to play it after I get my 10 pack because I feel like all I'm doing is contributing to the top 5% of the player base. Hopefully after R109 is released they give me an excuse to play, but my idea of fun is not taking on one character who has more hit points than my entire team(RH) just to get a mediocre reward.

MarvelMan

Kjeldbjerg wrote:

600 + days and 4 star rosters.

Assuming all targets are worth 40 pts, that's 10 matches in 30 min, 3 min per match, that sounds about right.

And when I q my final 4 (I mean 4, 60% of the time it works everytime) , all will be high value targets who are shielded, thus all being worth 75 pts every hit, giving me 300 pts.

And there are combos like if/cage, if/cyc, im40/mags that can big fast dmg in 3* land, to get you to 800 or 1k.

And for them to be worth 70 pts to me, the point difference only needs to 400 pts, not the 1k+ you mention.

Youre experience is quite similar to mine. I usually climb on 45-48 pt targets, with the occasional 60, so while your 3min per match seems low the total time estimate is pretty close. Maybe as much as 45 minutes, but the server lags enough that a lot of people wont see that youve moved above your float until youre about ready to shield.

As for the 70 pts, that happens at a differential of 441. 75pts is 870. So 70pt targets arent hard to find if you are willing to search within the last 2-5 hours, and often there are 75ers available. I generally count on my last hop to be 3x70, and am happy when its 4x75.

Alsmir

For my roster:

These are the typical opponents:

Surprisingly, I haven't met a team with 2x 4* champs today.
Yeah, I can beat those teams with 5 stars, but their match damage is enough to drain all of my healthpacks after just few battles. So how does the matchmaker figure out that it's fine to put my ~170 characters against 270?

Phumade

Alsmir wrote:

Yeah, I can beat those teams with 5 stars, but their match damage is enough to drain all of my healthpacks after just few battles. So how does the matchmaker figure out that it's fine to put my ~170 characters against 270?

It depends on your current score var X.
the avg score in your shard Var Y.
Time left in event Var Z
and composition of your team.

As those variable changes, matching making will build a new que based on the current state of those variables. There are many theories on how to adjust those variables. Not all have been proven true. Feel free to experiment thats how most exploits are discovered. People experimenting with different teams at different scores at different times in th shard.