Venom Bomb: Balance Changes

The Herald

Does not explain venom nerf. It's a bandaid to get around the ap feeding.[/quote]

Yeah, but, does it work?

That's the only thing that matters.

Time machines aren't real, complete rewrites of the game would consume time that could be spent elsewhere, provided it works right that's all we need to care about.

JVReal

True, the feeders are the real problem. Putting in different goons conflicts with the story if the story is you fighting symbiotes.

The solution that others have presented is only goons can use goon generated AP.

Maybe make goons that can't move the board have different color AP, Orange, Silver, or a totally different symbol. They can't get it from the board even on a cascade, but can only generate it themselves then only they can use it. It still has a cost (unless its passive), and it can still be placed on random or specific colors as described in the ability description.

zodiac339

udonomefoo wrote:

I thought this thread was going to be a reminder about the symbiote goon changes.

I was pleasantly surprised.

To those still complaining about feeder goons....why? If this change is positively received and they implement it across all events then who cares if the goons are feeding active powers. If those powers are weakened then it really doesn't matter. Take Headbutt, Chemical Reaction, Diabolical Plot, and Twin Pistols down to level 3 and let em have all the ap they want.

So, if they reduced Aggressive Recon to level 3, is that a nerf or a buff?

brisashi

I'm really enjoying these regular quality of life improvements to the game.

slidecage

DevilMayGrind wrote:

This is wonderful news! Moving in the right direction, who knows what we'll have next? *looking at you Juggernaut and your cheap powers*

wants a new person with a power

sucks all the fat out of juggie and juggie kills himself trying to headbutt

GrumpySmurf1002

This is good, since this is the release event for Spider-Woman.

At least I assume, since she's on the boosted list for Earth's Mightiest.

BraneDedDev

lol.
Dear devs... ask yourself, what hero fears a goofy [censored, for feelings] goon? Maggia, alien, foot clan. Stop, I'll answer for you. NONE! So with that in mind what goon would either inspire their allies to greatness in battle (ap feed) or put a dent into a super hero (asinine scaled damage, **** countdowns on half of the board). Again, none...

1. Remove ap generation, let them match as they scramble to scratch a superior being.
2. Google how to properly scale damage.
3. With lower damage finally figured out, adjust their powers. If logic were to be allowed in MPQ then goons might flail away with moderately fast attacks and moderately low damage. Take a cue from Hollywood, shoot outs vs the bad guy never obliterate the hero. The thug hits a shoulder with an exit wound, not a head shot with a missile.
4. Hire a Q/A team or make a test server with a seperate app (max characters, max champed and the event) and let us do the testing for you or, preferably, let us import our rosters as they do in MMORPGs. This might eliminate all or nothing changes and the neutering of characters can stop.

Too bad there isn't real time scaling - don't scale the roster, scale to the team we choose to use. (Rabble rabble rabble, too easy to exploit easy fights!) As if throwing health packs at it until it dies is hard.

Crowl

Talus9952 wrote:

Glossing over the real issue that is goons feeding ap. It's too much to just give the villains goons that don't produce ap of their color.

Indeed, losing scythes is just a lazy fix to the real issue, I think most people would be fine with knowing that they had to deny red if that was actually possible to do because of the goons not feeding it to him.

Dragon_Nexus

Talus9952 wrote:

Glossing over the real issue that is goons feeding ap. It's too much to just give the villains goons that don't produce ap of their color.

Well...
In Carnage's case, the goons feeding him red was the big problem. The solution was either give him goons that don't generate red or remove his red ability. A lot of the symbiotes generate red, if my memory serves. Removing his red entirely is a much better option, I think, since that thing hits REALLY hard.

That leaves his green. But that does more damage depending on how many special tiles are removes, and since both he and his goons will be producing fewer of them that shouldn't be an issue either.

So really, neutering the character powers works well if there are goon feeders around. Keeps the theme running, too.

Buret0

Lol

I've been playing so much more MtGPQ where they have no problem dealing the users OP battles to test their skill. Better match 3 AI (can make L match 5s, will take away your tiles, won't match their own power tiles, etc.) and bosses with three times the health and all of the mystic rarity powers, plus skills that aren't even available to the users. It's funny how much more abuse the MtGPQ users are willing (happily) to take.

I'm glad I've made the switch and have stopped chasing "just another 4*". This game got stale when the limit to new features was "here's another character", no new game mechanics, no interesting puzzle features, just the grind.

Kevin61

So I am nearing two years playing this game and have seen many changes. And, forumites, please correct me if I am wrong, but the way I see it is that the goons, symbiotes, etc. all automatically generate ap, correct? If you have two symbiotes that generate 2 or 3 ap in a color that they share, then of course, we are going to get pounded. Whereas our characters all rely on matching tiles to generate ap. What the tinykitty? Stop the automatic generation! Make them match tiles as well! I think that would make for a more interesting game overall.

Polares

Wow, no red power at all! Suuuuuuuuuper Nerf!

I don't think removing the AP generation for Goons is the solution. I like the change of pace that is Goons not matching tiles, it gives more of a puzzle element to the game having to deal with the countdowns in time, having the change of rearranging the board as you like, etc.

What it never should have been allowed in the first place is the nodes with Hero/Villain + Goons. This mechanic is the one that is broken. Symbiotes, Muscles, etc. those goons are really hard, but what makes them deadly is when they are in the same team as active chars. A Muscle should never create Strike tiles for an active char to make matches, this is OP!

If you want to mix active chars and Goons, then yes, in those nodes the passive AP generation needs to be removed, but I think it would be better if Goons were always on their own. They were clerarly not designed to coexist together those two...

Dark Nova

Neutering an entire power seems a bit of an overkill. For a QoL improvement, I would have settled for not having to watch (and listen to) "Raaawrrr" every two seconds!

Next time devs, don't take away Carnage's bite, just rip out his vocal chords.

Quebbster

I definitely prefer this solution over nerfing Carnage and Venom in general. I wonder if this will also be applied to the next run of Venom Heroic?

mckauhu

Wow :O Last time Venom + Carnage was really hard to battle against I wonder how about now. Now could you also make symbiotes a bit faster , please? It is annoying how slow they are...

zodiac339

aesthetocyst wrote:

Kevin61 wrote:

So I am nearing two years playing this game and have seen many changes. And, forumites, please correct me if I am wrong, but the way I see it is that the goons, symbiotes, etc. all automatically generate ap, correct? If you have two symbiotes that generate 2 or 3 ap in a color that they share, then of course, we are going to get pounded. Whereas our characters all rely on matching tiles to generate ap. What the tinykitty? Stop the automatic generation! Make them match tiles as well! I think that would make for a more interesting game overall.

What? and give up complete board control on all-goon nodes? Heck no!

A long time ago, they cut goon AP gen and power costs in half, which alleviated (somewhat) the goon feeder effect.

BUT, goon + tile mover still means they get to match tiles AND get free AP.

It's a neat trick. Stealers are one of the best counters .... too bad there aren't any that can survive 4*/5* scaling.

Wasp is new, but her steal seems meh? Goblin has a great steal, but its slow. Need a passive steal in the 4* tier.

That would be Peggy (sort of) since AP stealing is more a delay than anything else. Keep her health up, and sure enough, she delays.

Bowgentle

aesthetocyst wrote:

Kevin61 wrote:

So I am nearing two years playing this game and have seen many changes. And, forumites, please correct me if I am wrong, but the way I see it is that the goons, symbiotes, etc. all automatically generate ap, correct? If you have two symbiotes that generate 2 or 3 ap in a color that they share, then of course, we are going to get pounded. Whereas our characters all rely on matching tiles to generate ap. What the tinykitty? Stop the automatic generation! Make them match tiles as well! I think that would make for a more interesting game overall.

What? and give up complete board control on all-goon nodes? Heck no!

A long time ago, they cut goon AP gen and power costs in half, which alleviated (somewhat) the goon feeder effect.

BUT, goon + tile mover still means they get to match tiles AND get free AP.

It's a neat trick. Stealers are one of the best counters .... too bad there aren't any that can survive 4*/5* scaling.

Wasp is new, but her steal seems meh? Goblin has a great steal, but its slow. Need a passive steal in the 4* tier.

A long time ago?
That goon change is recent, last 3-6 months.

loslupus77

On their own these seem like great changes, but once again devs are addressing the symptoms, not the cause. I wouldn't get mad at eating Scythes from Carnage if he collected ap for it through matching tiles. The problem is, and has been for ages, goons feeding free ap to playable characters. Webbed Wonder had feeding issues every sub-event. First sub had Hammer agents feeding (among others) Moonie and Ares purple and green. Second one goons feeding Kingpin yellow (and Hood stealing your ap, but that's not the problem as such). And third symbiotes feeding Doc Ock green. All these, and others like them should be fixed. And not with bandaid-fixes as devs have done now, but by separating goons ap from moving characters ap.

This change is once more case of devs taking the easy way when trying to fix things, other such examples:
1) nerfing 1-star Venom: sure team-wide stun was annoying, but it was usually caused because goons fed purple to Venom. Now after all the changes to Venom even Yelena Belova is scarier than him(it?)
2) people losing matches due to game crashing: instead of fixing the bug, they lowered the amount of health you lose by retreating from match (= game crashing)
3) people experiencing insane droughts when opening Legendary Tokens and not getting 5-star: sure it was nice that they increased the odds from 10 to 15% (although not so nice, when you consider that new 5-stars keep popping up every month and therefore your odds of getting specific cover diminishes all the time), but it would have been better if they made certain triggers to RNG-system that assured long droughts without 5-stars wouldn't be possible

I'm not even going to iso shortage-issues, because while the amount of iso given has been increased, it's reeeeeeeeeally tiny considering how much more is needed. Credit must be given to developers for acknowledging issues and trying to fix them, but the end results appear as lazy fixes

GurlBYE

stochasticism wrote:

While I appreciate the player friendliness and QoL aspect of this change I wonder if it misses the mark a bit. If Carnage or Venom are firing off skills that are too powerful all too often doesn't that mean you should address the underlying issues of 1) feeder goons and 2) still absurd scaling?

Along with tossing out some new events without dialogue to fill in the dead space.

An app-laudable change, but doesn't fix the issue for new events.

ZeiramMR

Personally, I usually don't mind feeder nodes. Players have multiple advantages over the AI; the occasional Story node where the AI is getting AP-generation support is still a minor trade-off compared to, say, if the AI could identify L-Crits. And it does encourage a tactical decision in the cases of slow AP generation or more expensive powers like Twin Pistols to determine who to deal with first.

The only times where a feeder has been un-fun has been the Carnage nodes here (4* Venom Green is tough but not quite as speedy or damaging as Carnage Red) and that 1* Venom with two purple feeders node in another event. And recent changes have made both of these less of an issue.