**** Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew) ****

Vhailorx

wingX said:

tonypq said:

Anyone know if her purple will remove fortified special tiles like Carols black ?

Yes, it will remove fortified special tiles.  I have just tried using her purple on Cloak and Dagger's fortified black countdown tiles in the PVE and It turns the tiles to a fortified basic black tile.

Yup, powers that overwrite tiles ignore fortification.  So do powers that steal enemy tiles.

VizMantis

So I recently champed Spiderwoman and its been a while since I've been as hard pressed to find a use for a character.  So far, she seems just awful.

Her black is good at stopping dmg, but I rarely have it at the right time because I'm usually chasing colors that'll help me win the match, not colors that help me drag it out.  The purple special tile destruction might be good if I hadn't been using teen Jean to do that better for over a year.  The alternate traps are almost suspiciously avoided by the computer until I'm forced to match them away myself, which annoyingly does nothing.  Her red is so expensive, I've never fired it naturally.  IM40 can get me there, but there's about a million better outlets for my red ap.  

She seems like she's mid-ranked, can someone explain to me how she's not squabbling with Eddie in the basement?  What's she good for?

Vhailorx

VizMantis said:

So I recently champed Spiderwoman and its been a while since I've been as hard pressed to find a use for a character.  So far, she seems just awful.

Her black is good at stopping dmg, but I rarely have it at the right time because I'm usually chasing colors that'll help me win the match, not colors that help me drag it out.  The purple special tile destruction might be good if I hadn't been using teen Jean to do that better for over a year.  The alternate traps are almost suspiciously avoided by the computer until I'm forced to match them away myself, which annoyingly does nothing.  Her red is so expensive, I've never fired it naturally.  IM40 can get me there, but there's about a million better outlets for my red ap.  

She seems like she's mid-ranked, can someone explain to me how she's not squabbling with Eddie in the basement?  What's she good for?

I think i said earlier in this thread: the problem with her is that she is very good at second tier things.

Her red is weak (given its cost),  but her purple and black are good at what they do.  Purple is good indirect (trap) damage or good tile removal (yes, jg is better for only 2ap more, but that doesnt make SW bad).  Her black is probably the best active defensive power in the game.  Unfortunately this game rewards direct damage, ap acceleration, and strong passive skills.  So SW is mid-tier.

himatako

Her purple needs to create more traps and her black needs to be faster. A good defensive power for this game must be fast & reliable, which her black is neither. It takes 3 black matches to fire, and the CD tile isn't even fortified at 5 cover. 

They could make her black power's cost stay the same, but make it so that the tile is fortified and maybe increasing the countdown every time a condition is met. Mr. F's Imaginaut tile has proven to be very annoying and hard to destroy just by adding the fortified effect alone. This will make her defence much more reliable and she'll save many health packs even in PVP, imo.  

VizMantis

Vhailorx said:

Purple is good indirect (trap) damage or good tile removal (yes, jg is better for only 2ap more, but that doesnt make SW bad).

It doesn't make her bad, but it does mean that the role is filled (on my roster at least), and it's not a role that generally needs a backup.  

Which is kind of my point, I don't know what the heck to use her for, other than as fodder.

Failbot

himatako said:

Her purple needs to create more traps and her black needs to be faster. A good defensive power for this game must be fast & reliable, which her black is neither. It takes 3 black matches to fire, and the CD tile isn't even fortified at 5 cover. 

They could make her black power's cost stay the same, but make it so that the tile is fortified and maybe increasing the countdown every time a condition is met. Mr. F's Imaginaut tile has proven to be very annoying and hard to destroy just by adding the fortified effect alone. This will make her defence much more reliable and she'll save many health packs even in PVP, imo.  

Since she can make any basic tile a black countdown tile for it, there is a lot of flexibility. If it's getting matched away early, it's probably because you misplayed.

Rick_OShay

Try running her with Mr. Fantastic and Invisible Woman. I use Mr. F mostly for his blue tile-swap power. It's pretty cheap, and swapping helps tremendously in two ways. You can swap tiles so that it sets up the AI to match your S-W traps. The swap also helps greatly in getting S-W's expensive red built up more quickly.
You can choose which black ability you will use, S-W's to avoid damage, or Mr.F's to add some damage. He creates fortified protects, and if the enemy matches them this generates green for IW. This team has rainbow color active powers, but feel free to choose a different green-yellow character if you wish. 
I think S-W's red ability is decent if you can time it to down 1 enemy, so that it stuns another. I keep her black power set to 3 instead of 5 covers since I typically favor damage dealing over avoiding/healing abilities. But on this team, I favor her's over Mr.F's since you can really dodge some big enemy powers.

DrDevilDinosaur

I think if I was going to buff anything to do with her Countdown, it would be a way to increase its duration. How about giving her traps the ability to increase the CD timer when matched by a friendly? This would give some internal synergy and a bit more strategy around using her purple.

Jaedenkaal

DrDevilDinosaur said:

I think if I was going to buff anything to do with her Countdown, it would be a way to increase its duration. How about giving her traps the ability to increase the CD timer when matched by a friendly? This would give some internal synergy and a bit more strategy around using her purple.

4 turns is a pretty long time to take (nearly) no damage.

himatako

Failbot said:

himatako said:

Her purple needs to create more traps and her black needs to be faster. A good defensive power for this game must be fast & reliable, which her black is neither. It takes 3 black matches to fire, and the CD tile isn't even fortified at 5 cover. 

They could make her black power's cost stay the same, but make it so that the tile is fortified and maybe increasing the countdown every time a condition is met. Mr. F's Imaginaut tile has proven to be very annoying and hard to destroy just by adding the fortified effect alone. This will make her defence much more reliable and she'll save many health packs even in PVP, imo.  

Since she can make any basic tile a black countdown tile for it, there is a lot of flexibility. If it's getting matched away early, it's probably because you misplayed.

Yeah, but there's also terrible luck with cascade. Not to mention A.I. doesn't really know how to place it on defence. Mr. F. and Carol's fortified CD tiles are much harder to accidentally destroyed on cascade, and the A.I. can still play them well. Maybe it's just my preference.

Rick_OShay

Now that we've gone over a month or more with Trap tiles being unnecessarily nerfed, Spider-Woman really needs a re-work.
It's her boost week, and among Peggy and Gamora, SW's only use is her purple. The trap tiles are great when they are matched by the enemy, but after 3 times in a row where a line-break destroyed the trap with no effect, I'm wondering why I keep bringing her along into battle. 

We need to fix traps back to the way they were. And/or:
Decrease the cost of her red, potentially increase the AoE side of the damage
Make friendly matches of the traps have a beneficial effect (as is with Fury)
When playing Love instead of Fear, add attacks or protect tiles to the board when removing enemy specials, or at least add an additional effect that gains red or black AP

hopper1979

I would say the trap changed hurt her more than most because we can not match the traps to cause some effect.  With Fury and X-23 you still get a benefit, with her it is a total fizzle.  I forgot about the nurf and was really disappointed by her effectiveness now, I actually switched up to her red being maxed, I have played about 10 matches with her and only gotten 1 trap match by the AI.  She is still a great meet shield but her strength was getting out her black, collecting pink and flooding the board with traps and waiting for a match.  With the nurf getting those traps to go off is much more difficult and now she needs a rework.

Were we every give a good reason for that change, people were always complaining how unreliable traps were in the first place, now they are even more so, they definitely were not "broken" so why the change?

mega ghost

I just champed her because I was tired of selling her covers. I hope she's one of the next reworked characters, she could be so much fun with a few tweaks.

Black: This can be good but unless you're holding onto it and counting enemy AP so you can use it strategically, it mostly just gets eaten up by basic match damage for a few turns for 9 AP. 3* Luke Cage's red passive already does this automatically for free. The countdown tile should be fortified at 5 covers and it should do something when it resolves, like leave a strike tile with strength proportional to damage absorbed.

Purple: This is almost there, but needs two updates to the 'Fear' option: 1) an update to the language, "creates 3 hidden Trap tiles that deal XXXX damage if matched or destroyed by the enemy." That way match-4s still trigger them. 2) Something needs to happen if you match them, which you inevitably will. My suggestion is that for each trap tile you match you generate (at 5 covers) 2 black AP, 2 purple AP, and 2 red AP. 'Love' could also be updated to replace the enemy special tiles with red charge tiles.

Red: The damage is terrible for the cost. Reduce the cost to 12 AP, make it a blanket AoE that deals even damage (maybe around 3,000 — 3,500 at lvl. 270), stuns the enemy team for 1 turn, and turns three red tiles into red charge tiles. If there are six or more red charge tiles on the board, the team stun lasts two turns instead.