New Mission Difficulty For All Story Events *Updated

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  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,274 Chairperson of the Boards
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    *Looks at Meet Rocket&Groot preview*

    Placement rewards are still there...

    Vision rewards... icon_lol.gif

    Come on, try the new format with a new release... I want to see how bad placement will truly be.
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 2,993 Chairperson of the Boards
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    If you really want placement under the new system you can always just 'snipe'.

    I've joined the last 2 events (Prodigal Sun and now DK Avengers Heroic) on the 2nd day. In both events I'm going to finish T50 in all the subs and T50 for the event while getting only about 2/3 of the progression points (I lack essentials so I know I was unlikely to get progression without a lot of hard work and being summer my gaming time is limited) which is replenishing my hero points and netting a bunch of 3* covers (most of which I'm turning to ISO).

    In both events reaching a T10 score (which I'm not getting unfortunately) will be no where near progression points.

    KGB
  • hodayathink
    hodayathink Posts: 528 Critical Contributor
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    KGB wrote:
    If you really want placement under the new system you can always just 'snipe'.

    I've joined the last 2 events (Prodigal Sun and now DK Avengers Heroic) on the 2nd day. In both events I'm going to finish T50 in all the subs and T50 for the event while getting only about 2/3 of the progression points (I lack essentials so I know I was unlikely to get progression without a lot of hard work and being summer my gaming time is limited) which is replenishing my hero points and netting a bunch of 3* covers (most of which I'm turning to ISO).

    In both events reaching a T10 score (which I'm not getting unfortunately) will be no where near progression points.

    KGB

    The new system actually makes placement harder (but progression easier) for snipers, since you'll still be able to get enough points to get full progression in a sub even if you join late. So you might get lucky in that you enter a non-competitive bracket, but people entering late will have a chance to get more points than before.
  • puppychow
    puppychow Posts: 1,453
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    Vhailorx wrote:

    And while your group B does pay more cash for the game, I think demi is now focusing even more on group C: the people who will spend thousands or tens of thousands of dollars every quarter no matter what.

    That seems to be where the publisher is getting its revenue from at this point, for better or worse. icon_neutral.gificon_e_confused.gif

    I don't condemn them for going in that direction, b/c ultimately the publisher is in the business of making money, and they're in the best position to figure out how to keep the money train rollin'. icon_mrgreen.gificon_lol.gif
  • Malcrof
    Malcrof Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Please keep the discussion civil and do not direct snarky/attacking posts at other layers, as this is a violation of the forum rules. As many posts had to be removed, no warnings are being given, but, past this point there will be no more leeway given. Stay on topic, be respectful and constructive. Thank you.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Well at least it seems Devs have listened to my cryies (and others) and they have readjusted enemy scaling pass the 300 mark, their scaling was really really crazy (the images illustrate how crazy it was). So at least I hope the new format wont be as worse as I expected in that regard...

    They should have gone full progression reward. Move placement rewards to progression, leave just some extra iso for placement and everybody would be happy
  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 3,099 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Can anyone tell me why they killed PVE

    my ess nods were 149 starting and if i grinded early my tops might went up to 180 tops...


    they start at 120.. 150 180.. 210 240 after that i could not even beat it... so i have no chance at rewards or the cp anymore



    Thanks for killing the game D3 at least i know it wont be getting anymore of my cash
  • deadtaco
    deadtaco Posts: 409 Mover and Shaker
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    74 day player with 6 champed 2* and one 5* (Phoenix red). PVE was ruined by the old system. Planned to sell my 5* after PvP season.

    I saw they were going to reduce the 5* penalty with thus event. One pass through each node and I have wiped twice on "easy" nodes and the difficulty's very high unless I use my 5* on every node, which I didn't do, hioeing that would help reduce scaling.

    It looks like they reduced the penalty a tad, but pve is still nuts with a 5*.

    And yes I know, don't open LTs....
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2016
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    deadtaco wrote:
    74 day player with 6 champed 2* and one 5* (Phoenix red). PVE was ruined by the old system. Planned to sell my 5* after PvP season.

    I saw they were going to reduce the 5* penalty with thus event. One pass through each node and I have wiped twice on "easy" nodes and the difficulty's very high unless I use my 5* on every node, which I didn't do, hioeing that would help reduce scaling.

    It looks like they reduced the penalty a tad, but pve is still nuts with a 5*.

    And yes I know, don't open LTs....

    I think it is worth pausing for a moment to reflect on deadtaco's problem.

    5*s were introduced in mid september, 2015. They were announced earlier that month. In the announcement thread. Here is a quotation from a post made by on September 4, 2015 (from this thread: https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?style=1&f=7&t=32616), which is just one of many such statements at the time:
    Enslaved wrote:
    I think the starting level of 255 is way too high. It should have been 140 or 166 at most. Unless you have nearly maxed out 4*s just owning a single 5* will increase your scaling to the point where you'll have trouble competing. What happens when some 2-3 transitioner gets "lucky" and pulls one? It's not like scaling is even explained anywhere, they'd just recruit them and effectively ruin their ability to play the game.

    We are now more than 10 months into the 5* era. Demiurge is just now introducing changes to PVE to fix a problem that was identified by users before 5*s ever went live!!!!!

    I try (and undoubtedly sometimes fail) to be even handed in awarding both praise and criticism to the devs. I don't think they are bad people, or are trying to trick the players. Sometimes they do good things, and sometimes they do bad things; I try to praise for the former and provide polite critique for the latter.

    Unfortunately, I don't think I can find anything positive to say about this particular issue; it seems particularly damning to me. This was a known problem for many months (I think) before the devs even comment on the issue. But it's also a problem where the only downsides are borne by the playerbase, and it has clearly been a lower priority issue for demi. The cynic in me notes that it doesn't really affect the devs if players hurt their scaling by opening a LT too early. Moreever, players that find themselves in that situation may be further incentivized to spend real cash in the game to accelerate their roster building and reduce the painful effects of scaling (to say nothing of the fact that 1* players are almost guaranteed to earn one or two LT's worth of CP early on from their baby bracket PVE events).

    Now, 10+ months after 5*s went live, the devs are finally ready to introduce a potential fix to this problem. And that fix was:
    (1) arbitrarily tied to a raft of other scoring and format changes in PVE, thus delaying the fix during months of testing; and
    (2) reportedly doesn't work very well.

    Clearly fixing the scaling problems doesn't really have much impact on demi/d3's revenue (if anything it might have a negative impact), and I understand that gaming is a business and revenue is a priority. But player experience matters to revenue too. People are less likely to keep playing or spend real money when they are unhappy. And I think it is pretty shameful for demi to mishandle serious player quality of life issues like this for months while continuing to prioritize revenue-generating content like new characters.

    (And as a disclaimer/side note: this particular scaling issue never affected me. I had 4 or 5 4*s at 12 or 13 covers when 5*s went live. adding 5*s to my roster never noticeably affected my scaling)
  • Jwhitmire36
    Jwhitmire36 Posts: 52 Match Maker
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    Sorry if this has already been answered, thread's too long to go through it all.

    The node reward structure is now fixed for multi-play nodes, but what about the one-time play nodes?. Will we still be at RNGesus's mercy and get crit boosts and standard tokens even though there's 250 or 500 Iso in the pool?

    I ask because under the new system PvE for me personally is going to be about farming Iso. I don't have hours at a time to play, and I rarely ever did 4 full clears a sub anyway, and since I will have to continue to play on the same spread-out schedule placement is no longer viable, I played in some of the tests this way and it wasn' even close. I'm probably one of the few people who like the old system, it's better for me because but it allowed me to be competitive. Since I'm close to starting the 4* transition I don't know where my 4* covers will come from now.....
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Vhailorx wrote:
    deadtaco wrote:
    74 day player with 6 champed 2* and one 5* (Phoenix red). PVE was ruined by the old system. Planned to sell my 5* after PvP season.

    I saw they were going to reduce the 5* penalty with thus event. One pass through each node and I have wiped twice on "easy" nodes and the difficulty's very high unless I use my 5* on every node, which I didn't do, hioeing that would help reduce scaling.

    It looks like they reduced the penalty a tad, but pve is still nuts with a 5*.

    And yes I know, don't open LTs....

    I think it is worth pausing for a moment to reflect on deadtaco's problem.

    5*s were introduced in mid september, 2015. They were announced earlier that month. In the announcement thread. Here is a quotation from a post made by on September 4, 2015 (from this thread: https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?style=1&f=7&t=32616), which is just one of many such statements at the time:
    Enslaved wrote:
    I think the starting level of 255 is way too high. It should have been 140 or 166 at most. Unless you have nearly maxed out 4*s just owning a single 5* will increase your scaling to the point where you'll have trouble competing. What happens when some 2-3 transitioner gets "lucky" and pulls one? It's not like scaling is even explained anywhere, they'd just recruit them and effectively ruin their ability to play the game.

    We are now more than 10 months into the 5* era. Demiurge is just now introducing changes to PVE to fix a problem that was identified by users before 5*s ever went live!!!!!

    I try (and undoubtedly sometimes fail) to be even handed in awarding both praise and criticism to the devs. I don't think they are bad people, or are trying to trick the players. Sometimes they do good things, and sometimes they do bad things; I try to praise for the former and provide polite critique for the latter.

    Unfortunately, I don't think I can find anything positive to say about this particular issue; it seems particularly damning to me. This was a known problem for many months (I think) before the devs even comment on the issue. But it's also a problem where the only downsides are borne by the playerbase, and it has clearly been a lower priority issue for demi. The cynic in me notes that it doesn't really affect the devs if players hurt their scaling by opening a LT too early. Moreever, players that find themselves in that situation may be further incentivized to spend real cash in the game to accelerate their roster building and reduce the painful effects of scaling (to say nothing of the fact that 1* players are almost guaranteed to earn one or two LT's worth of CP early on from their baby bracket PVE events).

    Now, 10+ months after 5*s went live, the devs are finally ready to introduce a potential fix to this problem. And that fix was:
    (1) arbitrarily tied to a raft of other scoring and format changes in PVE, thus delaying the fix during months of testing; and
    (2) reportedly doesn't work very very.

    Clearly fixing the scaling problems doesn't really have much impact on demi/d3's revenue (if anything it might have a negative impact), and I understand that gaming is a business and revenue is a priority. But player experience matters to revenue too. People are less likely to keep playing or spend real money when they are unhappy. And I think it is pretty shameful for demi to mishandle serious player quality of life issues like this for months while continuing to prioritize revenue-generating content like new characters.

    The new PvE was supposed to be all about fixing scaling, in general, not just for 2 players who pulled a 5, but obviously somewhere along the way they decided to fix something that was not really broken at the same time, and change the format into ... 'something better'

    Now scaling is worse than before (scaling was not that bad anymore for almost all players except 2 teams + 5s), and PvE is going to be crazy hard for competitive players, and possibly the same for non competitive. All iterations has just made the new format more bearable, but I still think the old one was much better.

    Really nothing positive is coming out of this...
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
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    A couple of things for me I actually preferred the last test with the fix point version. It was the closest thing to progression only and except the last node was truly play when you want. This PVE will still cause grinding at the beginning of the event and the end especially for new cover PVE's.
    2nd this could have been a great time to just remove the critical boosts as a reward from PVE. For the true grinders it is like a punishment for doing the extra grinds. Another CP or 500 ISO would be great for this slot instead of a critical first new character PVE will really highlight the issues with this style of PVE.
  • deadtaco
    deadtaco Posts: 409 Mover and Shaker
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    Polares wrote:
    Vhailorx wrote:
    deadtaco wrote:
    ...

    It looks like they reduced the penalty a tad, but pve is still nuts with a 5*.

    ...

    I think it is worth pausing for a moment to reflect on deadtaco's problem.

    5*s were introduced in mid september, 2015. They were announced earlier that month. In the announcement thread. Here is a quotation from a post made by on September 4, 2015 (from this thread: https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?style=1&f=7&t=32616), which is just one of many such statements at the time:


    Clearly fixing the scaling problems doesn't really have much impact on demi/d3's revenue (if anything it might have a negative impact), and I understand that gaming is a business and revenue is a priority. But player experience matters to revenue too. People are less likely to keep playing or spend real money when they are unhappy. And I think it is pretty shameful for demi to mishandle serious player quality of life issues like this for months while continuing to prioritize revenue-generating content like new characters.

    The new PvE was supposed to be all about fixing scaling, in general, not just for 2 players who pulled a 5, but obviously somewhere along the way they decided to fix something that was not really broken at the same time, and change the format into ... 'something better'

    Now scaling is worse than before (scaling was not that bad anymore for almost all players except 2 teams + 5s), and PvE is going to be crazy hard for competitive players, and possibly the same for non competitive. All iterations has just made the new format more bearable, but I still think the old one was much better.

    Really nothing positive is coming out of this...

    Question about scaling per node - Does the amount it go up have anything to do with the team you just used to clear it, or does it just go by your roster?

    I've been recording the amount of scaling for each node I faced. I only used the 5* on the later nodes, not the trivials, thus prompting my question above.

    I'm going to sell the 5* tonight before my slice progresses in the morning and hopefully when I enter it the scaling won't be so nuts. Below is what I have recorded so far, wondering if that looks about right. I'll update it as I go along.


    "Sight Seeing" :
    TACO : 23:1
    TACO : 29:2
    TACO : 35:3
    TACO : 44:4

    "Criminal Enterprise" :
    TACO : 30:1
    TACO : 36:2
    TACO : 56:3

    "King of NY" :
    TACO : 49:1
    TACO : 73:2
    TACO : 90:3

    "A Rocket and a Hard Place" : 80 without a clear
    TACO : 80:0
    TACO : 101:1

    "Disorganized Crime" :
    TACO : 79:1
    TACO : 100:2
    TACO : 126:3

    "A tree Groots in NY" :
    TACO : 71:0
    TACO : 89:1

    Essentials :

    DP :
    TACO : 99:1

    IM40 :
    TACO : 90:1
    TACO : 109:2
    TACO : 133:3
    TACO : 162:3

    Storm :
    TACO : 81:1
  • Ducky
    Ducky Posts: 2,255 Community Moderator
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    deadtaco wrote:
    Question about scaling per node - Does the amount it go up have anything to do with the team you just used to clear it, or does it just go by your roster?

    I believe it was stated in one of the test threads that all scaling is now based on your roster and is locked in at the beginning of the event. I'm too lazy to search for the exact quote, though.
  • Orion
    Orion Posts: 1,295 Chairperson of the Boards
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    This PvE format was the worst of all of the test formats. Scaling is through the roof and the stupid timers means that optimal play is a 5 hour grind before and after the slice time. Did anyone really like this format? And this is what they went with?

    I hope participation in this garbage tanks and they're forced to change it again. I know I'm not playing this format of PvE again.
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2016
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    Ok now that you've settled on a Story mode format, can you do something about Vs QUEUE HELL?!


    And why when I'm at 1250 someone can hit me from 400, but I can't queue a someone at 1400?
  • Keegan
    Keegan Posts: 284 Mover and Shaker
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    Orion wrote:
    Scaling is through the roof and the stupid timers means that optimal play is a 5 hour grind before and after the slice time.

    Hi,

    I was the second person to complete optimal clears in s3 today. I am a four-star transitioner, average roster being lvl170 to 180 3*s. My boosted 3*s were over my 5s, around lvl260. My maximum boss difficulty was lvl280. My optimal clears took one hour and forty-six minutes, with some mild distractions while playing.

    I'm not defending anything, I'm sharing what my experience was to be the second complete clear of sub1. I'm not surprised if scaling and grind time is off the charts for some, but it was not for me. It was okay, and now I don't have to worry about hitting clears early or late.
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,274 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Keegan wrote:
    Orion wrote:
    Scaling is through the roof and the stupid timers means that optimal play is a 5 hour grind before and after the slice time.

    Hi,

    I was the second person to complete optimal clears in s3 today. I am a four-star transitioner, average roster being lvl170 to 180 3*s. My boosted 3*s were over my 5s, around lvl260. My maximum boss difficulty was lvl280. My optimal clears took one hour and forty-six minutes, with some mild distractions while playing.

    I'm not defending anything, I'm sharing what my experience was to be the second complete clear of sub1. I'm not surprised if scaling and grind time is off the charts for some, but it was not for me. It was okay, and now I don't have to worry about hitting clears early or late.

    I think you misunderstood what he said regarding the grind.

    Yes, clearing the nodes 4 times in 1h46 is fine. But tomorrow, you'll need to clear them again 3,4 times + when the new sub starts another 4 clears as fast as possible. This is what sucks about the new system and it's the "optimal clear".

    It's a solid block of 3 to 4 or even 5 hours of playtime and it's just ridiculous to ask anyone to do this.
  • Keegan
    Keegan Posts: 284 Mover and Shaker
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    sinnerjfl wrote:
    Keegan wrote:
    Orion wrote:
    Scaling is through the roof and the stupid timers means that optimal play is a 5 hour grind before and after the slice time.

    Hi,

    I was the second person to complete optimal clears in s3 today. I am a four-star transitioner, average roster being lvl170 to 180 3*s. My boosted 3*s were over my 5s, around lvl260. My maximum boss difficulty was lvl280. My optimal clears took one hour and forty-six minutes, with some mild distractions while playing.

    I'm not defending anything, I'm sharing what my experience was to be the second complete clear of sub1. I'm not surprised if scaling and grind time is off the charts for some, but it was not for me. It was okay, and now I don't have to worry about hitting clears early or late.

    I think you misunderstood what he said regarding the grind.

    Yes, clearing the nodes 4 times in 1h46 is fine. But tomorrow, you'll need to clear them again 3,4 times + when the new sub starts another 4 clears as fast as possible. This is what sucks about the new system and it's the "optimal clear".

    It's a solid block of 3 to 4 or even 5 hours of playtime and it's just ridiculous to ask anyone to do this.


    Okay, I see. I was reading the post as "Five hours before, five hours after" which would be ten hours.

    So, if it is a solid block of 3 to 4 or 5 hours all told, that's not really different from the old system of thirty minutes to an hour and a half first clear of a sub after a three hour grind, is it? If I'm understanding your point correctly, that is. The old system tossed in two 8hr clears that you had to play optimally as well if you wanted decent placement.
  • Keegan
    Keegan Posts: 284 Mover and Shaker
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    Keegan wrote:


    Okay, I see. I was reading the post as "Five hours before, five hours after" which would be ten hours.

    So, if it is a solid block of 3 to 4 or 5 hours all told, that's not really different from the old system of thirty minutes to an hour and a half first clear of a sub after a three hour grind, is it? If I'm understanding your point correctly, that is. The old system tossed in two 8hr clears that you had to play optimally as well if you wanted decent placement.

    Also, not saying this isn't ridiculous, it's just slightly less ridiculous icon_lol.gif