PVE Heroic: Juggernaut (2016-07-04 to 2016-07-07)

kobu

I'm a new player, less than a month in. I've however managed okay with the last few PVEs, Deadpool being the hardest for me to date, just barely beat the last node once. This one though has been especially grueling. I'm limping along with Beast and Peggy, waiting on heals to tackle each node. I only got 3 rounds complete on the first sub and had no time to do more than grind down one more to get a single CP for my effort. Just got done with my first round on sub 2 (got lucky and downed Kingpin first with a series of crits). Fun, fun.

huktonfonix

I usually don't mind heroics that much, but there is absolutely horrible synergy between the characters on this roster.

The 4's are either too new for any but the whales to have them covered or are simply terrible (Cho, Elektra). The 3*'s (and OBW, honorary 3*) have insane color overlap (purple anyone?), abilities that do not play nice together, and all are heavily-dependent on special tiles that make them actively bad against Doc Ock. The one saving grace is that Ock blue is the "strongest color" on every node he's on so far, so if you can get Blade's black online first, you're in good shape.

In the first sub you've got:
Blade - is shut off by Torch, and both suck against Doc Ock, fights with Daredevil .

Torch - destroys your own strikes and ambush tiles, is suicide against Doc Ock

Doom - everyone needs , so good luck with your plots. is suicide against Doc Ock, and competes with Blade and DD .

DareDevil - Another user, is actually helpful, doesn't play well with Blade or Torch

OBW - everyone is in her colors, shutting off her best ability

Beast - One of the least problematic. His colors are open. His blue isn't great against Ock, but it's not terrible. He does block Cho's colors though

CFacto

huktonfonix wrote:

I usually don't mind heroics that much, but there is absolutely horrible synergy between the characters on this roster.

The 4's are either too new for any but the whales to have them covered or are simply terrible (Cho, Elektra). The 3*'s (and OBW, honorary 3*) have insane color overlap (purple anyone?), abilities that do not play nice together, and all are heavily-dependent on special tiles that make them actively bad against Doc Ock. The one saving grace is that Ock blue is the "strongest color" on every node he's on so far, so if you can get Blade's black online first, you're in good shape.

In the first sub you've got:
Blade - is shut off by Torch, and both suck against Doc Ock, fights with Daredevil .

Torch - destroys your own strikes and ambush tiles, is suicide against Doc Ock

Doom - everyone needs , so good luck with your plots. is suicide against Doc Ock, and competes with Blade and DD .

DareDevil - Another user, is actually helpful, doesn't play well with Blade or Torch

OBW - everyone is in her colors, shutting off her best ability

Beast - One of the least problematic. His colors are open. His blue isn't great against Ock, but it's not terrible. He does block Cho's colors though

Agreed. You said it a lot more eloquently than me.

Also very limited board shake (you really don't want to be spending on Illusions) and OBW's low health means the constant flow of goon tiles are a complete pain to stop, and they hit like a truck.

huktonfonix

I'm also afraid to use most board shake/color switch powers right now because of the dreaded no match/reshuffle bug. I used Doctor Doom once on my first clear, and it cost me 3 health packs due to a forced retreat.

CT1888

Went back to try out Blade, Beast and Peggy (0/1/2) in the final node. Worked a charm for the 3 goes it took me to get the CP. That yellow is a fantastic passive.

Took out Doc Ock first, targeted purple for myself and they just didn't get the chance to get many powers off.

CFacto

To be fair, I think part of my problem is my Beast is not levelled. Doom, Loki and Squirrel Girl all are but they overlap a fair bit.

If only my crystal ball were working, I might have given Hank a few more ISO.

Kjempen

BlackSheep101 wrote:

Xzasxz wrote:

Seqriously? vs mean tons of attack files for the enemy. Blade is definitely the character NOT to use IMO.

Doc Ock will not match reds unless forced to. He might match purple if teamed up with Venom or a goon that uses purple. (but if you're dropping Blade's attack tiles with purple matches on the board, you're doing it wrong)

Blade, Beast and Loki just ran through the hard nodes, and firing KYEC always ended the match very quickly. They were beaten, battered and bruised by the time I cleared the last node, but I didn't need to use a health pack.

"Dock Ock will not match reds unless forced to"? Oh boy, I sure wish this was true, so it would be possible to think up a strategy of sorts! I don't know about any other's experience with MPQ, but at least while I've been playing MPQ, when a villain or hero is teamed up with goons, any color becomes their "strong" color, which means your opponent will make something that seems like random color tile matches (or at least your opponent will be making moves that are more complicated than just selecting a match-3 in one of their three strong colors). This means that making a prediction of what your opponent's next move will be is hopeless unless a potential match-4 is available.

I've experienced multiple times in this event Doc Ock doing match-3s with other colors than black, blue, green while potential match-3s in said colors are available.

As an example: look at the node "They Call Him Fisk" in the Won't Stop subevent. (I use this example because I'm currently in that subevent, but the same theory applies)
- Kingpin is level 208 and the two grenadiers he's paired up with are level 209.
- Kingpin has the following three colors as strong colors:
Purple (match damage 73), Yellow (match damage 64), Black (match damage 82), all other colors are 43 or below in match damage

So let's say Kingpin did a red match-3. His match-damage for red is 11. 11 * 3 makes 33 so this would be the expected damage, but instead the damage dealt is 192. Why, might you ask? Because the Grenadiers he's teamed up with has a match damage of 64 in that color (in all colors actually).

I think some tweaking should be done while facing goons (non-tile movers) paired with heroes/villains. For example maybe make all tile match damage from goons near zero, so it's possible to make some strategy instead of just relying on pure luck/chance what your opponent's next move will be.

TheRealJRad

This line-up is abysmal.

Black Duke

Sub2 is quite manageable with Beast, Black Panther and Human Torch. I didn't have to use a single health pack for my 2nd clear.

mckauhu

Black Duke wrote:

Sub2 is quite manageable with Beast, Black Panther and Human Torch. I didn't have to use a single health pack for my 2nd clear.

My Beast is way too underleveled but which ones green you used Beasts or HTs ? I'm having difficulties with the last node of second sub (vs Kingpin & Muscle).

DTStump

mckauhu wrote:

Black Duke wrote:

Sub2 is quite manageable with Beast, Black Panther and Human Torch. I didn't have to use a single health pack for my 2nd clear.

My Beast is way too underleveled but which ones green you used Beasts or HTs ? I'm having difficulties with the last node of second sub (vs Kingpin & Muscle).

I use HT + Beast + Loki(or Daredevil), all championed, and attack the enemies in the following order: Muscle -> Kingpin -> Bullseye. Green AP is used by Beast, unless somehow it is necessary to use HT's to make sure Muscle is downed before a CD goes off. HT is important for his red and black.

EDIT: Daredevil is not championed, Loki is. But DD is effective anyway.

Black Duke

mckauhu wrote:

Black Duke wrote:

Sub2 is quite manageable with Beast, Black Panther and Human Torch. I didn't have to use a single health pack for my 2nd clear.

My Beast is way too underleveled but which ones green you used Beasts or HTs ? I'm having difficulties with the last node of second sub (vs Kingpin & Muscle).

I am using BPs (for speeding up the fight) and (the typical game-ender), HTs (for the heavy damage) and Beast's and -combo (for AoE-damage & shaking up the board).

It's a pity that your Beast isn't really usable yet. After looking at your roster I would try a team consisting of BP, Daredevil and Loki.

DTStump

Sub 3 reinforcements:

Ruinate

Kjempen wrote:

BlackSheep101 wrote:

Xzasxz wrote:

Seqriously? vs mean tons of attack files for the enemy. Blade is definitely the character NOT to use IMO.

Doc Ock will not match reds unless forced to. He might match purple if teamed up with Venom or a goon that uses purple. (but if you're dropping Blade's attack tiles with purple matches on the board, you're doing it wrong)

Blade, Beast and Loki just ran through the hard nodes, and firing KYEC always ended the match very quickly. They were beaten, battered and bruised by the time I cleared the last node, but I didn't need to use a health pack.

"Dock Ock will not match reds unless forced to"? Oh boy, I sure wish this was true, so it would be possible to think up a strategy of sorts! I don't know about any other's experience with MPQ, but at least while I've been playing MPQ, when a villain or hero is teamed up with goons, any color becomes their "strong" color, which means your opponent will make something that seems like random color tile matches (or at least your opponent will be making moves that are more complicated than just selecting a match-3 in one of their three strong colors). This means that making a prediction of what your opponent's next move will be is hopeless unless a potential match-4 is available.

I've experienced multiple times in this event Doc Ock doing match-3s with other colors than black, blue, green while potential match-3s in said colors are available.

As an example: look at the node "They Call Him Fisk" in the Won't Stop subevent. (I use this example because I'm currently in that subevent, but the same theory applies)
- Kingpin is level 208 and the two grenadiers he's paired up with are level 209.
- Kingpin has the following three colors as strong colors:
Purple (match damage 73), Yellow (match damage 64), Black (match damage 82), all other colors are 43 or below in match damage

So let's say Kingpin did a red match-3. His match-damage for red is 11. 11 * 3 makes 33 so this would be the expected damage, but instead the damage dealt is 192. Why, might you ask? Because the Grenadiers he's teamed up with has a match damage of 64 in that color (in all colors actually).

I think some tweaking should be done while facing goons (non-tile movers) paired with heroes/villains. For example maybe make all tile match damage from goons near zero, so it's possible to make some strategy instead of just relying on pure luck/chance what your opponent's next move will be.

This is half correct. Yes, the tile damage for red goes to the Grenadier because his tile damage is higher. This does not mean red is their "strong color" It's not. Against that team, the strong colors are still green, blue, black. You are relatively safe using Blade against this team. Despite what the tile damage says for goons, their strong(preferred) colors are their ability colors only.

If you were fighting Doc Ock (green/blue/black), Lieutenant (pink/yellow), any ninja (red/x/x), you would be fighting a rainbow covered team.

monsieurmojo

Black Duke wrote:

I am using BPs (for speeding up the fight) and (the typical game-ender), HTs (for the heavy damage) and Beast's and -combo (for AoE-damage & shaking up the board).

I've been using this exact same combo for the hard nodes, only using a championed 5/3/5 HT's ...if you wait to fire once you get past about 15 AP, it just dishes out *so much* punishment. Beast's doesn't deal nearly enough damage for my tastes, even with the board shake. If they start dishing out too much damage, you can quick heal with Beast's . Lots of avenues to victory here.

Pessi

DTStump wrote:

Sub 3 reinforcements:

Meh.

loslupus77

I usually don't have bigger issues with Heroics but this one's been totally awful. In sub 1 we were fighting Doc Ock, who by himself shouldn't be that hard but then you got goons feeding him green in some nodes and most of your best available heroes create special tiles for Ock to feast on. Even the reinforcement guy specializes in special tiles.

Sub 2 had Pokey the Bear with his magical fingerbanging abilities fueled by goons creating cd-tiles to be popped. At least Black Panther was nice help as he helped roster selection by offering different colours to be matched. It seemed that all buffed shared the same colour and it was hard to find proper rainbow teams as one or two colours were always missing. The fights themselves have felt slow as support characters are lacking. Sure Loki is nice, but it requires enemy to get four matches. And OBW is nice for cd-tiles, but she's too fragile and dead in a instant if she gets hit by basically any cd-tile.

But what's even more disturbing is when you consider what were devs thinking when conceiving this line-up? They know that they made board reshuffle-bug in previous patch and are trying to fix it with next patch. Yet this week's buffed list includes lots of characters whose abilities include board shuffling and destroying tiles, even Beast's (Essential character) best power green does some. During sub 1 I got stuck twice on nodes (once in essential with Beast, once in hardest node). The first one was caused by Beast, the second (I think) with HT's red. The second time my team had OBW and I had enough purple to steal ap to use HT's red again, to no avail naturally. So two retreats and six health packs required because devs have been sloppy and/or lazy. Maybe someone should have thought that limiting board shufflers for this kind of event/week would have been good idea but maybe it required too much thinking for some.

As an insult to injury the main mission nodes have been awful, especially as your team's been battered and your health packs spent if you tried to improve your position with some grinding during previous sub. They should always be trivial and with one available reward, no need for RNG prizes in these nodes.

BlackSheep101

Ruinate wrote:

This is half correct. Yes, the tile damage for red goes to the Grenadier because his tile damage is higher. This does not mean red is their "strong color" It's not. Against that team, the strong colors are still green, blue, black. You are relatively safe using Blade against this team. Despite what the tile damage says for goons, their strong(preferred) colors are their ability colors only.

If you were fighting Doc Ock (green/blue/black), Lieutenant (pink/yellow), any ninja (red/x/x), you would be fighting a rainbow covered team.

This. The AI doesn't chase its strongest colors, it chases colors that "charge abilities." I put that in quotes because it counts passives as abilities that can be charged. If you're fighting Ock and two Maggia Thugs, they'll prioritize blue, green, black, yellow and TUs. They will ignore red unless there's a match-4 available or none of their primary colors can be matched.

PLBIV

Is there something wrong with the difficulty on the 3rd sub? My 2nd-to-last nide is deadly on the first try. The toons on all the harder nodes have all been over 325. I can't possibly beat them when my highest character is at 274!!

mckauhu

My all high level characters are half-dead after just completing the trivial nodes of last sub... Insane...