How ISO-8 Brotherhood emphasises most problems with MPQ

SnowcaTT

A discussion I had with team-mates and I've seen on the boards:

"Should I jump into Iso-8 late, for the 4* cover?"
"Well, it's a double ISO event. And you'd miss out on CP."
"Maybe I should run the whole event for placement?"
"Well, it's a week-long event of 8-hour refreshes"

That's about as long as the discussion needs to be for many players. But let's look into what is unsaid there.

"Should I jump into Iso-8 late, for the 4* cover?"
-Rewards are not worth the effort being put into them
-There are 33 4*'s, it's not exciting to have a new one.
-With few chances to get specific 4*'s, it is still tempting to try for it.
-And with those 33 4*'s, you'll primarily have to depend on RNG to get that characters' covers
-And with those 33 (and growing) 4*'s, RNG is less and less likely to get you that cover

"Well, it's a double ISO event. And you'd miss out on CP."
-ISO is so -incredibly- scarce, it isn't worth using it on resources other than leveling your characters.
-ISO use has been -vastly- out-paced by character releases (since it is all 4*+ releases, and they cost so much to level)
-CP is also given out rather stingily, and the PVE CP nodes are one of the few chances to get it on a daily basis.
-But CP is an absolute necessity, since 5*'s are quickly making the 4*'s irrelevant in PVP.
-And you pretty much have to PVP to guarantee specific 4*'s covers.
-But of course, you must depend on RNG to get you those 5*'s. That CP will often end up being worth 1000 ISO...

"Maybe I should run the whole event for placement?"
-Can I top out over the whales to be in the T2 (or even T10)?
-Because it certainly won't be worth the HP trying to get the character at 0.1% chances.
-Wow I wish these event rewards were all on progressions already.
-And do I have the "right" characters for this event? Or are they covered and under-leveled like most of my roster?
-What will my scaling be for this event, off the charts again?

"Well, it's a week-long event of 8-hour refreshes"
-You'll have to play every node at least three (specific) times a day x7 days x~9 nodes: 189 nodes to play.
-But those 189 are just the start, how good you do will depend on the ~45 total more nodes you grinded at the end.
-And then you'll have to get lucky for placement, have to depend on luck of the draw for your bracket since it is a new release.
-Oh, but enjoy your +Critical boosts x500 this week!

I mean....there are other problems with the games, but this PVE really, REALLY highlights the many of the biggest ones right now.

ISO divvied out vs. the "value" of the rewards vs. the time/effort put in to get those rewards - how much longer will the playerbase determine the rewards are worth the effort? How much longer will D3 keep the players stuck in ISO-limbo, making these rewards even less enticing?

Marc_Spector

Very well put, SnowcaTT.

I have nothing else to add other than: This, This, This.

chamber44

Marc Spector wrote:

Very well put, SnowcaTT.

I have nothing else to add other than: This, This, This.

Agreed. Shocked at the lack of Thumbs up's.

mazerat

I'd be a lot more hype about 4-Star covers if they did anything before you got 9 or 10 of them. At least a single 3-Star cover unlocks their DDQ progression.

Jarvind

I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF ALL THESE DELICIOUS PURPLE CRACKROCKS

mpqr7

Every day, I ask myself why I still play this game after two years. I think it's mostly for the ddq crashes. Those are the only parts that I truly like and find fulfilling. The rest is all a slog. It's too bad, because it could be a great game if it gave us more content, such as different types of battles and challenges, instead of just focusing on releasing an endless stream of new characters that we don't care about.

The boss battles are fun as well.

Even adding 4* PVP (with better prizes) would be an exciting new step forward.

I get that they are about making money, and new characters give them more money, but it would be nice for something actually new. I feel like I've saved the world a ton of times and just haven't gotten much of a roi from it.

Linkster79

mpqr7 wrote:

Every day, I ask myself why I still play this game after two years. I think it's mostly for the ddq crashes. Those are the only parts that I truly like and find fulfilling. The rest is all a slog. It's too bad, because it could be a great game if it gave us more content, such as different types of battles and challenges, instead of just focusing on releasing an endless stream of new characters that we don't care about.

The boss battles are fun as well.

Even adding 4* PVP (with better prizes) would be an exciting new step forward.

I get that they are about making money, and new characters give them more money, but it would be nice for something actually new. I feel like I've saved the world a ton of times and just haven't gotten much of a roi from it.

Challenges are needed. Random challenges at random times with differing difficulties. Win a game using less than x active powers, win a match whilst having more than x (insert colour) xp at the end, win a match in less than x time. There are loads of small challenges that can be added to the game with small(ish) rewards that shouldn't be too hard to code and won't break the in game economy. Sadly spending time and resources on this is not going to boost income so will never happen.

JohnnyBlood

Jarvind wrote:

I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF ALL THESE DELICIOUS PURPLE CRACKROCKS

Maybe I've had too much coffee at work today, but this was one of the funniest things I've read in a while....thank you Jarvind

fmftint

Jarvind wrote:

I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF ALL THESE DELICIOUS PURPLE CRACKROCKS

Coppertouret

It also needs to be noted that the new 4* character (War Machine) will likely be a featured/required character for the second run of Civil War (presumably along side the end of the current PVP season).

That adds a little more emphasis on last minute bracket joining or the complete opposite of grinding the entire event for placement.

SnowcaTT

Coppertouret wrote:

It also needs to be noted that the new 4* character (War Machine) will likely be a featured/required character for the second run of Civil War (presumably along side the end of the current PVP season).

That adds a little more emphasis on last minute bracket joining or the complete opposite of grinding the entire event for placement.

I started thinking about this post a couple days back...I couldn't remember a couple of issues that had been going through my head, and this is definitely one: -must compete for that cover to have success in next event (and have most characters rostered for future essential events).

ZeiramMR

I mostly agree with you SnowcaTT, though I personally wouldn't call CP giveaway as being stingy. Sure, I would like more, but for the gamemakers to set a flow that is balanced for both high-end and low-end rosters, it could be much worse.

Skygazing

SnowcaTT wrote:

Coppertouret wrote:

It also needs to be noted that the new 4* character (War Machine) will likely be a featured/required character for the second run of Civil War (presumably along side the end of the current PVP season).

That adds a little more emphasis on last minute bracket joining or the complete opposite of grinding the entire event for placement.

I started thinking about this post a couple days back...I couldn't remember a couple of issues that had been going through my head, and this is definitely one: -must compete for that cover to have success in next event (and have most characters rostered for future essential events).

Not to diminish the overall argument, but assuming the second run of CW is mechanically the same as the first run, you can still unlock your chosen team's boss node by completing the missing essential character's counterpart node on the other team. WS was the first new character release I ended up ignoring in a while, but I was still able to complete the HB nodes on the other side to unlock team cap's boss fights.

That being said, agree entirely with the problems mentioned.

Chief270

The main problems are STILL:

Someone who has consistently played a PVE since day one of an event getting less than someone that played less than a day. People, including myself, play this system merely cause it exists. PVE needs to stop doing this. The fact that there are threads dedicated to WAITING TO PLAY until a fresh cycle makes this obvious. Are developers really saying that whoever is 1000th in a grouping can grind and grind and grind with little hope of a reward, while that 1001st gets a fresh bracket, and could possibly put minimal effort into it to secure the wanted cover(s). Go to progression primarily/only for the main rewards, and you will actually see people start playing your PVEs much earlier than they are today.

The ISO dealt out are the same today in the 4 to 5 star era of the game as they were in the 2/3 and the 3/4 star eras. I started when the only 4*s were baglady and x-force wolvie. Why are the iso rewards the essentially the same today as they were back then?

SnowcaTT

ZeiramMR wrote:

I mostly agree with you SnowcaTT, though I personally wouldn't call CP giveaway as being stingy. Sure, I would like more, but for the gamemakers to set a flow that is balanced for both high-end and low-end rosters, it could be much worse.

It's one of those things where you get it or you don't I think. I rarely run PVE's to progression and haven't had the communication necessary to run PVP to 1300....so I get a few CP a week from PVE nodes and from T50 PVP, but that's about it.

I think dribbling it out an extra CP a day in DDQ like they did the first week CP was introduced wouldn't be a downside to anyone, including the devs...this is an extra 30 CP a month (1.5 LT's)...if you have the roster that can take down the final node, so it won't be flooding newbies with 4*'s.

wymtime

SnowcaTT wrote:

ZeiramMR wrote:

I mostly agree with you SnowcaTT, though I personally wouldn't call CP giveaway as being stingy. Sure, I would like more, but for the gamemakers to set a flow that is balanced for both high-end and low-end rosters, it could be much worse.

It's one of those things where you get it or you don't I think. I rarely run PVE's to progression and haven't had the communication necessary to run PVP to 1300....so I get a few CP a week from PVE nodes and from T50 PVP, but that's about it.

I think dribbling it out an extra CP a day in DDQ like they did the first week CP was introduced wouldn't be a downside to anyone, including the devs...this is an extra 30 CP a month (1.5 LT's)...if you have the roster that can take down the final node, so it won't be flooding newbies with 4*'s.

Adding 1 cp a day to DPDQ is a good idea. If you do think about it you can earn 114 to 139 CP a week plus if you have been playing long enough an extra 25 CP every other week I believe. So that is 278 CP up for grabs every 2 weeks or 13.9 clasic tokens.v you would also get 6 4* from PVP. So that is 20 4* every 2 weeks. Yes 14 of those are RNG but that is a lot of 4* you can earn especially when you compare that to before championing and LT came out.

Linkster79

Chief270 wrote:

The main problems are STILL:

Someone who has consistently played a PVE since day one of an event getting less than someone that played less than a day. People, including myself, play this system merely cause it exists. PVE needs to stop doing this. The fact that there are threads dedicated to WAITING TO PLAY until a fresh cycle makes this obvious. Are developers really saying that whoever is 1000th in a grouping can grind and grind and grind with little hope of a reward, while that 1001st gets a fresh bracket, and could possibly put minimal effort into it to secure the wanted cover(s). Go to progression primarily/only for the main rewards, and you will actually see people start playing your PVEs much earlier than they are today.

The ISO dealt out are the same today in the 4 to 5 star era of the game as they were in the 2/3 and the 3/4 star eras. I started when the only 4*s were baglady and x-force wolvie. Why are the iso rewards the essentially the same today as they were back then?

This I shall very kindly disagree with. Those like myself who play the really fun bracket sniper roulette will get significantly less rewards than somebody who plays from the start. All those sub placement rewards, node rewards and tokens add up to a not to be sniffed at number of cover/ISO/critical boosts whereas I will only get a smattering of rewards for a clear or 2 and final placement.

Platzy

SnowcaTT wrote:

(...) ISO divvied out vs. the "value" of the rewards vs. the time/effort put in to get those rewards - how much longer will the playerbase determine the rewards are worth the effort? How much longer will D3 keep the players stuck in ISO-limbo, making these rewards even less enticing?

As long as enough masochistic players still grind like idiots to get max progression and placement - despite complaining about it at the same time. (Ah yes, the dynamics of abusive relationships)

Coppertouret

Skygazing wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

Coppertouret wrote:

It also needs to be noted that the new 4* character (War Machine) will likely be a featured/required character for the second run of Civil War (presumably along side the end of the current PVP season).

That adds a little more emphasis on last minute bracket joining or the complete opposite of grinding the entire event for placement.

I started thinking about this post a couple days back...I couldn't remember a couple of issues that had been going through my head, and this is definitely one: -must compete for that cover to have success in next event (and have most characters rostered for future essential events).

Not to diminish the overall argument, but assuming the second run of CW is mechanically the same as the first run, you can still unlock your chosen team's boss node by completing the missing essential character's counterpart node on the other team. WS was the first new character release I ended up ignoring in a while, but I was still able to complete the HB nodes on the other side to unlock team cap's boss fights.

That being said, agree entirely with the problems mentioned.

What if the opposing side's essential is winter soldier? Still not exactly flooding the cover pool yet.

Jabrony_Geoff

Platzy wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

(...) ISO divvied out vs. the "value" of the rewards vs. the time/effort put in to get those rewards - how much longer will the playerbase determine the rewards are worth the effort? How much longer will D3 keep the players stuck in ISO-limbo, making these rewards even less enticing?

As long as enough masochistic players still grind like idiots to get max progression and placement - despite complaining about it at the same time. (Ah yes, the dynamics of abusive relationships)

Platzy you have opened my eyes. I can't do this play every 8 hours thing anymore. I put on 8lb during the last 7 day event to win the winter soldier.
This will be the last one I do under this format for health reasons. A 7 day pve is bad for your health due to lack of sleep and lack of excerise.

Everyone who plays the 7day pve knows I speak the truth. I'll not do it again.
The sooner the last test event format is introduced the better.

revskip

Chief270 wrote:

The main problems are STILL:

Someone who has consistently played a PVE since day one of an event getting less than someone that played less than a day. People, including myself, play this system merely cause it exists. PVE needs to stop doing this. The fact that there are threads dedicated to WAITING TO PLAY until a fresh cycle makes this obvious. Are developers really saying that whoever is 1000th in a grouping can grind and grind and grind with little hope of a reward, while that 1001st gets a fresh bracket, and could possibly put minimal effort into it to secure the wanted cover(s). Go to progression primarily/only for the main rewards, and you will actually see people start playing your PVEs much earlier than they are today.

The ISO dealt out are the same today in the 4 to 5 star era of the game as they were in the 2/3 and the 3/4 star eras. I started when the only 4*s were baglady and x-force wolvie. Why are the iso rewards the essentially the same today as they were back then?

Except that isn't at all true. The person who joins late with perfect info (which requires some out of game coordination to even be possible) gets at best three 4* covers. The person who joins at the beginning of the event and grinds it might not get any of the 4* covers but will still come away with a bunch of ISO-8, some HP, some 2* and 3* covers, several event tokens and 25 CP. So at worst they will end up with two fewer 4* covers and a bunch of other loot. At best they end up with a 5* cover from the 25 CP, a 4* cover from the event tokens and all the other loot.

Should ISO rewards be improved, absolutely. But the trade off between jumping into a bracket late with perfect info and grinding an event is significant.