Story Difficulty Scaling - New Test: Meet Rocket & Groot

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Comments

  • Smudge
    Smudge Posts: 562 Critical Contributor
    WEBGAS wrote:
    Sluggo wrote:
    I'm cautiously optimistic about these changes.

    First off, I'm a huge fan of dumping the 8-hour refresh timers. Being able to play whenever I want instead of being locked into 8-hour cycles was the best thing about these tests, so I'm glad that's continuing.

    Feeling compelled to do 6 clears a day felt like extra work for the same rewards, so lowering the number to 4 clears feels better ... theoretically. I wonder how many more people will feel compelled to do all 4 clears right at the start of each sub, and if that in turn causes more people to try and keep pace, but I think that's something you can't know for sure until you test it.

    Going back to some trivial nodes is also a plus. Every node doesn't have to be a health-draining challenge. This is ultimately a match-3 game, so you'd like to have at least a few casual-friendly fights each day.

    If nothing else, these changes suggest the devs are listening and trying, so that's a plus. Bring it on!



    One last change could be the final improvement : ADD PROGRESSION REWARDS ONLY! over the score for 25cp put 3 others limit scores each one worth a cover + 1 cover for progression alliance reward
    just like in Civil War, Ultron & Galactus events....This is what the majority of us is asking for icon_e_smile.gif

    See, what I find interesting is that as these tests progress, it seems we are getting closer to something that would favor a progression-only rewards structure anyway.

    First, we test a move to "play when you want" with a large number of clears possible. Now it's a move to fewer clears possible before the points drop. This begs the obvious question: Why don't you just give up, admit the placement model is grating on your player base on the whole, and implement a larger tiered rewards system?

    The psycho grinders can have the typical top placement 4* + 3* cover rewards available at 150-200% of "regular max progression" just like what we see from normal veteran bracket insanity. The people who have the time and devotion to push themselves hard enough to reach the ridiculous progression scores can do so. I highly doubt you will see a massive infusion of 4* covers into the player base as a result of doing this - I certainly don't have time or energy to devote to a mobile game like that. Might there be a larger number of players who get it? Sure. Would it be likely to tap you out on sales? Probably not.
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daiches wrote:
    Why can't we just keep the 8h system that works perfectly for everyone?
    Lots of people have expressed their support for the new system, so apparently the 8 hour system is not working perfectly for them. And the devs seem to agree with them since we keep getting tests of the new model. I am thankful they are taking the time to revise the system.
  • Gmax101
    Gmax101 Posts: 182 Tile Toppler
    Quebbster wrote:
    Daiches wrote:
    Why can't we just keep the 8h system that works perfectly for everyone?
    Lots of people have expressed their support for the new system, so apparently the 8 hour system is not working perfectly for them. And the devs seem to agree with them since we keep getting tests of the new model. I am thankful they are taking the time to revise the system.

    Amen,

    whether the points work out better or worse makes no difference to me, I like the new scaling process and have actually enjoyed the tests...

    So the 8 hour clear does not "work perfectly" for everyone...

    I especially like the climbing difficulty, it makes it feel like a steadily increasing challenge... and the fact that the differences between each jump will be greater will make this more significant.... and therefore the matches will mean more.

    And before anyone starts going on....

    I also completely agree that the rewards are insufficient... and it is crazy that they are the same no matter the level of the player's roster.

    but in isolation of that, the scaling and game format actually works for me.
  • biryon
    biryon Posts: 148 Tile Toppler
    Changing the point system seems to be very controversial, and I have to say I'm finding it frustrating that the scaling fix for rostering single cover 5 stars is getting delayed while the point system undergoes multiple revisions. Can you please work on the scaling fix first and then experiment with the points timer after that?

    I have a bunch of legendary tokens I need to open for 4* essentials, but I can't because I know pulling a 5* will ruin my scaling. People who don't frequent the forums are opening them and innocently getting hosed over. This is a huge issue that should've been obvious from the beginning and really needs to be fixed ASAP before experimenting further with the points timer.
  • Dekliko1978
    Dekliko1978 Posts: 93
    The problem with the new format (compared to the old 8 hour refresh version) is that it actually adds a second grind, 1 at start and then 24 hours later/end of sub. So even though going from 6 to 4 is a step in the right direction, it's still too time consuming overall when going for top placement.

    Another major problem is rosterbased scaling, you are being punished for levelling your roster. And to make matters even worse, the rewards aren't scaled. When you are into 5* territory or if you have only 1 or 2 maxed 4*, you effectively only use those characters unless the game forces you to choose another character (essentials or Heroic PvE). On top of how grindy PvE already feels, having to use the same characters over and over is even less fun. Again why bother levelling your roster?

    Maybe instead of doing it the Heroic PvE way, locking out all the other characters, introduce boosted reward characters. You can choose any character from your roster if you so desire, but if you select a character from that PVE's predefined list you'll get double/triple ISO or instead of a heroic token a 3* token?
  • Razamataz
    Razamataz Posts: 59 Match Maker
    Will rubber banding be turned off so everyone scores same per node as it's still on at the moment?
    How many clears of each node is needed for max profession(25cp) will it be the 4hits per node or more than this?
  • Demiurge_Anthony
    Demiurge_Anthony Posts: 156 Tile Toppler
    3 pages already! Alright, let's get to it...
    aesthetocyst wrote:
    EDIT: WAIT WAIT. "Once a mission has reached its max difficulty, the mission starts losing points until 24 hours have elapsed." So you hit it 4x for full points, then it just starts draining in value? So you can just hit it over and over and over??? Chasing it down the drain?

    I apologize for the confusion. This part of the system has not changed. After beating the mission 4 times, the mission is worth 1/4 less points and regenerates over 24 hours.
    Stax the Foyer wrote:
    When you say "performance," what do you mean? Final ranking? Victory rate? Participation?

    And is better measured relative to other players in the same event, or themselves or other players in previous events?

    All the above? We measure roster strength against placement, mission length, success rate, etc.

    fmftint wrote:
    What is the stack total? 6x or 4x to 1 (20)?

    4 Clears for full points, each clear is worth 1/4 less points (and takes 24 hours to recharge) to a minimum of 20 points.
    Razamataz wrote:
    Will rubber banding be turned off so everyone scores same per node as it's still on at the moment?
    How many clears of each node is needed for max profession(25cp) will it be the 4hits per node or more than this?

    Rubber banding has been turned off. For this run of the event, 3 clears of each node will yield the max progression reward.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    Demiurge_Anthony wrote:
    For this run of the event, 3 clears of each node will yield the max progression reward.
    ok, this kind of information is gold for the players. any opportunities to provide this moving forward would be veeeerrrrrryyyy appreciated icon_cool.gif
  • rastafari7
    rastafari7 Posts: 75 Match Maker
    I don't mind the scale testing.
    But stop it with that freaking multiple clears and a 24hr countdown.
    Either stick with the normal timer or get rid of placement rewards and add some to progression !!!!!!!
  • Razamataz
    Razamataz Posts: 59 Match Maker
    edited May 2016
    Demiurge_Anthony wrote:
    Razamataz wrote:
    Will rubber banding be turned off so everyone scores same per node as it's still on at the moment?
    How many clears of each node is needed for max profession(25cp) will it be the 4hits per node or more than this?

    Rubber banding has been turned off. For this run of the event, 3 clears of each node will yield the max progression reward.

    please check again I done my full clear at 8am uk time starting slice 3 late and got 3570 points my partner with similarish roster who didn't start till 12.30ish is in same slice as me and same bracket yet she earned 3951 points so either rubberbanding still on or people get different points for some reason
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,758 Chairperson of the Boards
    biryon wrote:
    Changing the point system seems to be very controversial, and I have to say I'm finding it frustrating that the scaling fix for rostering single cover 5 stars is getting delayed while the point system undergoes multiple revisions. Can you please work on the scaling fix first and then experiment with the points timer after that?

    I have a bunch of legendary tokens I need to open for 4* essentials, but I can't because I know pulling a 5* will ruin my scaling. People who don't frequent the forums are opening them and innocently getting hosed over. This is a huge issue that should've been obvious from the beginning and really needs to be fixed ASAP before experimenting further with the points timer.

    As a player who has a level 350 OML and 6 max leveled 4* I will say this I am facing lower level teams in the last test compared to regular PVE. These tests are fixing some of the scaling issues you are talking about. It is still going to be a challenge because a 5* starts at such a high level.

    I will say my concerns with the test is the elimination of the 8hr timer. It is more about the ideal play time and epic grinds for placement that concerns me. I only compete for new covers but I do play PVE for resources and a top 50 placement in WA sub is a great way to earn HP for shield hopping and will not take a lot more clears than before. That has been my experience in the past tests and by reducing the initial clears from 6 to 4 does not seem to fix the problem. When you look at new 4* how many clears in a row will it take to get top 20 let alone top 10?
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,758 Chairperson of the Boards
    Razamataz wrote:
    Demiurge_Anthony wrote:
    Razamataz wrote:
    Will rubber banding be turned off so everyone scores same per node as it's still on at the moment?
    How many clears of each node is needed for max profession(25cp) will it be the 4hits per node or more than this?

    Rubber banding has been turned off. For this run of the event, 3 clears of each node will yield the max progression reward.

    please check again I done my full clear at 9am uk time starting slice 3 late and got 3570 points my partner with similarish roster who didn't start till 12.30ish is in same slice as me and same bracket yet she earned 3951 points so either rubberbanding still on or people get different points for some reason
    The test event has not started yet. It will start next week
  • Philly484
    Philly484 Posts: 173 Tile Toppler
    Ok, scaling is sort of fixed; we shall see.... However, once again the rewards have probably still yet to be addressed. Why is D3 not addressing this issue? I find it amazing that people are complaining about scaling with enemy pve, but yet they complain about transitioning into 4* and 5* but say nothing about the lack of rewards. How can this be achieved when critical boosts are still a reward for nodes. I never use mine I find no use for them what so ever. I mean I'd rather have 70iso, then a critical boost. Stop complaining about scaling, I beat gauntlet without them having to scale it back, and I don't have any usable 5 stars. It just takes smarts and the right combination. However, the lack of rewards, and championing has not addressed this in my eyes, is very aggravating. Stop complaining about scaling issues and grinds, and complain about lack of rewards.
  • firethorne
    firethorne Posts: 1,505 Chairperson of the Boards
    Leadggb wrote:
    Competitive PVE is PVP, and the current rewards system is leftover from the 3* meta. The rewards system needs a complete revamp. (IMO to 100% progression based, but also with an alliance progression like in boss events.)

    Is there any plan to address these issues?

    I think this is a significant issue. I can appreciate trying to improve the performance of people with more developed rosters. Things should never get worse for you because you've improved your roster.

    But, this also causes a number of other problems. Since you've made the bizarre and regrettable decision to make almost every aspect of the game a direct competition between players, the more you do to improve things for developed rosters, the more you do to shut out people that still need to develop.

    2* teams should be able to win some 3*s, and have fun doing it. 3* teams should have a way to get 4*s, and not feel like it's a chore. 4* teams should be able to win some 5*s, not completely at the whims of a random number generator. The current reward structure is a a relic. It stopped making sense over a year ago.
  • biryon
    biryon Posts: 148 Tile Toppler
    wymtime wrote:

    As a player who has a level 350 OML and 6 max leveled 4* I will say this I am facing lower level teams in the last test compared to regular PVE. These tests are fixing some of the scaling issues you are talking about. It is still going to be a challenge because a 5* starts at such a high level.
    Yeah, I know that scaling's part of the testing, but that's my point. They're introducing multiple new variables at once while trying to figure out what works. I think that's just making everything take longer. It would be more efficient to run a test with one new variable (scaling), then when that's working right, test another new variable (point system). They've already changed the scaling for PvP, so the holdup for PvE appears to be because they're testing everything at once and waiting until it's all finished.
  • seekie
    seekie Posts: 41 Just Dropped In
    Demiurge_Anthony wrote:
    For this run of the event, 3 clears of each node will yield the max progression reward.

    Could you please stick to this logic going forward, not just this run. Understand if it's increased for new character release, but of late the point requirement for the 25cp have been creeping up even for the regular PvE, this hearts of darkness run included. Why?

    Regardless whether it is correction or inflation, it is bad for the motivation department.
  • Gmax101
    Gmax101 Posts: 182 Tile Toppler
    Demiurge_Anthony wrote:
    3 pages already! Alright, let's get to it...

    Rubber banding has been turned off. For this run of the event, 3 clears of each node will yield the max progression reward.

    Woohoo!!

    That is awesome news icon_e_smile.gif

    That alone makes this version so much more user friendly than the 8hr schedule... 3 clears at any time and you are on track...

    where as on the 8 hour clock, that would be either 3 clears at prescribed points of the day or 4 or 5 clears depending on number of visits...

    great great GREAT news
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,758 Chairperson of the Boards
    biryon wrote:
    wymtime wrote:

    As a player who has a level 350 OML and 6 max leveled 4* I will say this I am facing lower level teams in the last test compared to regular PVE. These tests are fixing some of the scaling issues you are talking about. It is still going to be a challenge because a 5* starts at such a high level.
    Yeah, I know that scaling's part of the testing, but that's my point. They're introducing multiple new variables at once while trying to figure out what works. I think that's just making everything take longer. It would be more efficient to run a test with one new variable (scaling), then when that's working right, test another new variable (point system). They've already changed the scaling for PvP, so the holdup for PvE appears to be because they're testing everything at once and waiting until it's all finished.
    I agree with your point and I have said multiple times on this topic to just run the scaling test with the old PVE system to see the difference for players and scaling.

    Anthony,
    I think you have a lot of people asking this question. Why are you testing multiple items at once instead of just testing scaling which you could implement right away like you did in PVP?
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thanks to demiurge and Anthony for providing some answers and stepping up the level of communication recently. It is always appreciated!

    With regard to this test:

    I am cautiously optimistic. In theory play anytime is superior to a fixed schedule. The problem with the first three tests is that the new system made no real change for casual players and was much worse for competitive players. From what we have been told, this new system might be an improvement for casual players (only 3 clears for max prog, but now at any time) and no real change for competitive players (still an optimal schedule, but a similar number of total clears to the old system). And bringing backb trivial nodes is a great ideal. I wouldn't want the whole game to be trivial, but I also don't want everything to be 300+.

    Still need to see how the actual scaling works. And how onerous the new optimal schedule is. But this has potential to be an neutral-to positive change for almost all players, which is a good thing.

    Thanks to demiurge for hearing and responding to player concerns about the new system. (though I still don't know why these tests include changes to both scaling and scoring. Might have been easier to measure the results by testing those factors separately) I don't know if this new test is the right solution, but if have more confidence that we are on +,path that will ultimately lead to a system that works for both players and devs.

    Looking past this test, the rewards scheme for the game still needs a revamp. 3* rewards for a 4*/5* meta is not good enough. Iso should be increased by 50-100% across the board. Top 50 rewards in both pve and PvP should be 4*s. All alliance rewards should be 4*s (there is very little incentive to play in competitive alliances anymore except for boss fights). 5* drop rates should be increased a bit. I would also like to see something done to smooth out rng oddities in 5* distrubtion. Someone out there has pulled 7 5* covers and all of them are OML, and others have pulled 20+ and still don't have OML. So long as he is so dominant in the game's mets, that's a real problem.
  • Razamataz
    Razamataz Posts: 59 Match Maker
    wymtime wrote:
    Razamataz wrote:
    Demiurge_Anthony wrote:
    Razamataz wrote:
    Will rubber banding be turned off so everyone scores same per node as it's still on at the moment?
    How many clears of each node is needed for max profession(25cp) will it be the 4hits per node or more than this?

    Rubber banding has been turned off. For this run of the event, 3 clears of each node will yield the max progression reward.

    please check again I done my full clear at 9am uk time starting slice 3 late and got 3570 points my partner with similarish roster who didn't start till 12.30ish is in same slice as me and same bracket yet she earned 3951 points so either rubberbanding still on or people get different points for some reason
    The test event has not started yet. It will start next week

    I know it's not started but I want to make sure as the answer Anthony gave was it has been turned off ,not it's going to be turned off, I'm not sure if rubber banding is like on off switch for all events or is programmed to be turned on or off on a specific pve each time

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