***** Captain America (First Avenger) *****

124

Comments

  • jobob
    jobob Posts: 680 Critical Contributor
    I made thread with a huge writeup about why Cap is so bad and why he needs a re-work nearly 5 months ago.

    It can be found here:
    viewtopic.php?f=14&t=46904&p=591248#p591248
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dredging up this thread to discuss his buff.

    My cap is only 2/1/1, but i was favourably impress with him jn the big enchilada today. At 10 his yellow isn't too slow to fire, and even with just two covers it is worthwhile (doing 2.8k single target. 800 aoe, a 1 turn stun, 400ish protect tiles and 180 in attack tiles). At higher levels i this this will be a solid power. It's not devstating. But at 10ap it doesnt have to be. And once cast, it can really put the player in a dominant position, negating match damage adding some dot, and fueling cap' blue.

    Even at 1 cover, cap's blue is also solid. It hits reasonably hard once a hand ful of tiles are out. And its definitely cheap enough to spam.

    I am not sure what to make of red. Its expensive and the damage is sub par. But if you spec for it and bring team cap allies it can return 11+ap. So in the long run. It can basically turn 11 red ap into modest damage damage plus some other ability (yellow if cap is the strongest). It's not a terrible trade, but it is slow.

    I dont think he is fast at all, since most of his abilities require some setup, so his pvp value seems limited. But he should be faurly strong in pve, even against overleveled opponents, with yellow helping conserve health and blue suppressing ai abilities.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    For me this is a very very solid buff.

    - Yellow now is so much better, going from 13 to 10, not having countdowns and not losing the turn, obviously, makes all the difference!

    - Red is probably a bit worse than before, basically because it is more expensive. But not by much. This is a very combo friendly power now. Buuuuuuuuut WE NEED MORE TEAM CAP MEMBERS IN 5 LAND so this power can shine a bit more! Getting back 11 AP would make all the difference!

    - Blue also much better. Not destroying the tiles again makes all the difference. Now instead of 3 Storm being her only good partner, you can team up him with PH or OML.... You know, other 5s! And his own special tiles help this power a lot, now that yellow is not so expensive.

    I don't think he is top tier, but now he is very solid, like BW and SS (the stun, very strong protect and attack tiles are very interesting now, even more so than the damage).

    It is quite cool that we don't have trash tier in 5 land anymore. It would be cool if colog, jobob or KDN would update their opinions on him now.

    The only problem? This buff might come to late for me. I doubt I will ever max him, with classic dilution icon_e_sad.gif
    Vhailorx wrote:
    I dont think he is fast at all, since most of his abilities require some setup, so his pvp value seems limited. But he should be faurly strong in pve, even against overleveled opponents, with yellow helping conserve health and blue suppressing ai abilities.

    5 land is not as fast as 4 land or 3 land (or at least it was not until Thanos). BW is quite used and she is also not very fast. OML+PH it is also not a fast team and it is still the most used team (you basically need at least 14 purple to start killing enemies). One big reason is that there are still no good AP producers in 5 land.

    Probably in the future this will change, but right now, things are slower than in other tiers, so he is in fact average.

    PS: GG, BBolt and Thanos are for me the only fast killers in 5 land.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023
    Not im46? With 2 team im conpanions his red hits very hard for just 9 ap, and his blue can generate a bunch of red if used well.

    Not as fast as thanos, but he seems about as fast as gg.

    And i should have considered the relative lethargy of 5* play. Things will change a lot if they ever add a really good battery to that tier. But i also think that availability still has a lot to do with 5* usage. Would 5bw be used as much if she weren't the only 5* option for a lot of people? Same with the venerable oml/phoenix team. Are there more than 50 or 100 people who can actually choose from a deep roster of 5* champs?
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx wrote:
    Not im46? With 2 team im conpanions his red hits very hard for just 9 ap, and his blue can generate a bunch of red if used well.

    Not as fast as thanos, but he seems about as fast as gg.

    And i should have considered fhe relative lethargy of 5* play. Things will change a lot if they ever add a really good batter to that tier. But i also think that availability still has a lot to do with 5* usage. Would 5bw be used as much if she weren't the only 5* option for a lot of people? Same with the venerable oml/phoenix team. Are there more than 50 or 100 people who can actually choose from a deep roster of 5* champs?

    Yeah if you have other two team IM in your team, IM might be even faster than GG, but that is not always possible.

    Availability is obviously a factor here, but in general I think 5 tier is slower than other tiers because of acceleration, and you can't really use 4s and 3s with 5s (well, at least not until you get 4s to 330 or so) to accelerate them and there are not good accelerators in 5 land yet. This limits speed a lot.

    So someone like Cap with 10, 11 and 7 AP powers is not that slow.
  • Rick_OShay
    Rick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    Do we have a list of Team Cap members?
    I kinda looked around...
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    Rick OShay wrote:
    Do we have a list of Team Cap members?
    I kinda looked around...

    I dont know why this thread is not sticked. Probably it is not updated...

    viewtopic.php?f=14&t=43359&
  • SangFroid
    SangFroid Posts: 177 Tile Toppler
    Can we get the original post updated with the new stats please?
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    Forgive me as my 3/0/2 Steve is pretty limited but he is now a solid partner for a few 5* considering strikes are a big part of that tier and with his blue causing direct damage and damage per special on top of the added damage from strikes for just 7ap this makes him very handy for Oml especially as the ever healing Oml with tank at least one of his colours.

    In addition to that Steve yellow is much improved and not a bad move for 10ap. The red I can only speculate on as mine does not have it but partner him with Phoenix and let her use the red. I think it's fair to say that for those of us who accidentally built Steve and cursed our luck no longer have to curse it.
  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,753 Chairperson of the Boards
    OneLastGambit wrote:
    Forgive me as my 3/0/2 Steve is pretty limited but he is now a solid partner for a few 5* considering strikes are a big part of that tier and with his blue causing direct damage and damage per special on top of the added damage from strikes for just 7ap this makes him very handy for Oml especially as the ever healing Oml with tank at least one of his colours.

    In addition to that Steve yellow is much improved and not a bad move for 10ap. The red I can only speculate on as mine does not have it but partner him with Phoenix and let her use the red. I think it's fair to say that for those of us who accidentally built Steve and cursed our luck no longer have to curse it.

    i agree with 1lastgambit.... 5teve is much usable now. i enjoy using him even though he is not fully covered. i also fought against a few max 5teve (cjewin comes to mind), and it was very easy for the AI to collect 10 yellow. the defence tiles will then be very irritating.

    all in all, good changes.
  • ErikPeter
    ErikPeter Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    SangFroid wrote:
    Can we get the original post updated with the new stats please?
  • mpqr7
    mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
    Well I went for it and brought him from lv 350 to lv 451. I gotta say, for PVP, I'm going to stick with OML/PHX now, even though my OML is only 435 vs Cap's 451.

    Cap only works well in Cap/Phx when either Phx unleashes Red, or Cap unleashes Yellow. Because his Blue is useless until there are special tiles for his team.

    Also, he tanks all the colors, and without OML's self-healing, that means he dies quickly, even at 50,000 hit points. And once he dies, he takes over 11 HOURS to heal?!?!?!?!? That's way too much time! Well, I know that devs will never nerf him, because he is a constantly dying health-pack magnet.

    I guess I'll use him in either PVP Sim or else PVE every now and then. Oh well, hopefully I get some other 5*s championed soon, and hopefully they are better for PVP!

    And also now I get to fight only double-championed 5*s in PVP, so.. yay?
  • OzarkBoatswain
    OzarkBoatswain Posts: 693 Critical Contributor
    I want to update the wiki page, but I can't find his updated numbers (damage and tile strengths, etc). The images from the update post are gone. Anyone know his numbers at level 450?
  • poomermon
    poomermon Posts: 300 Mover and Shaker
    edited October 2017
    Ozark Boatswain said:
    I want to update the wiki page, but I can't find his updated numbers (damage and tile strengths, etc). The images from the update post are gone. Anyone know his numbers at level 450?

    5 Yellow lvl 450: 3280 aoe dmg, 9291 single target dmg, 2 x 765 attack tiles, 2 x 1366 protect tile and 2 turn stun for random enemy

    5 red lvl 450: 7651 dmg

    5 blue lvl 450: 3062 dmg + 1225 dmf for every friendly strike/attack/protect tile on board (max 8)
  • OzarkBoatswain
    OzarkBoatswain Posts: 693 Critical Contributor
    Thanks!
  • Spoit
    Spoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2018
    @Cthulhu would it be possible to update the OP with the (like year old) stats: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/56998/soul-gem-season-character-update-1-9-17

    And @Brigby the pictures in that announcement don't actually work. I see that someone transcribed them, but the table was a lot more legible, if you still have it and could rehost it. Especially since the posted numbers don't include the AP stolen differentials, or the base level numbers
  • udonomefoo
    udonomefoo Posts: 1,630 Chairperson of the Boards
    I have a fully covered 5* FA Cap at 3/5/5 and just got another yellow from Peggy.  I don't think I should level him because I already have Black Bolt maxed and that will push me into full 5* MMR and I don't think Bolt/Cap is going to win me a lot of matches against Gambit.

    Anyway, can anyone help me decide how to apply the yellow?  Should I reduce red or blue?
  • Nabistay
    Nabistay Posts: 146 Tile Toppler
    Calling all @Brigby with a request to update the stats on the character details post. Still has the super old version
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    udonomefoo said:
    I have a fully covered 5* FA Cap at 3/5/5 and just got another yellow from Peggy.  I don't think I should level him because I already have Black Bolt maxed and that will push me into full 5* MMR and I don't think Bolt/Cap is going to win me a lot of matches against Gambit.

    Anyway, can anyone help me decide how to apply the yellow?  Should I reduce red or blue?
    I'd reduce the red, you dont lose much except some damage, even champed, the difference between 3 & 5 covers is like 1700 dmg.
  • udonomefoo
    udonomefoo Posts: 1,630 Chairperson of the Boards
    sinnerjfl said:
    udonomefoo said:
    I have a fully covered 5* FA Cap at 3/5/5 and just got another yellow from Peggy.  I don't think I should level him because I already have Black Bolt maxed and that will push me into full 5* MMR and I don't think Bolt/Cap is going to win me a lot of matches against Gambit.

    Anyway, can anyone help me decide how to apply the yellow?  Should I reduce red or blue?
    I'd reduce the red, you dont lose much except some damage, even champed, the difference between 3 & 5 covers is like 1700 dmg.
    Thanks!  

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