***** Captain America (First Avenger) *****

Vhailorx

Polares wrote:

notamutant wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

Could it be that streams are crossed between the player and boss versions of 5* cap? Does the 11k damage out match what he was doing in the civil war event?

https://youtu.be/Y63Ew3ekcB0?t=12m10s

You can see him at 3 covers pretty clearly here. Does advertised damage with exactly 8 tiles out.

But we want to see when there are MORE than 8 tiles out. Can you redo the test using 3 Storm black and then Cap blue ?

It looks like they forgot to cap the maximum damage to 8 tiles (it always removes 8, but it uses as many as there are in the board, even though in the power description it clearly says by "each removed tile" not each tile present)

Shhhhhhhhhh! Do you want this fixed on the next update?! Let's keep this a secret.

notamutant

Polares wrote:

notamutant wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

Could it be that streams are crossed between the player and boss versions of 5* cap? Does the 11k damage out match what he was doing in the civil war event?

https://youtu.be/Y63Ew3ekcB0?t=12m10s

You can see him at 3 covers pretty clearly here. Does advertised damage with exactly 8 tiles out.

But we want to see when there are MORE than 8 tiles out. Can you redo the test using 3 Storm black and then Cap blue ?

It looks like they forgot to cap the maximum damage to 8 tiles (it always removes 8, but it uses as many as there are in the board, even though in the power description it clearly says by "each removed tile" not each tile present)

I will try later tonight.

notamutant

34 special tiles out. 3 blue covers. Says 1902 damage per tile removed. Did AT LEAST 49718 damage (Silver Surfer one shot). Guess it is glitched. I guess Captain America IS better than Iron Man

Vhailorx

I repeat my previous post. This fact is now fight club. We may never speak of it or post about here. K
Not ever!

notamutant

Vhailorx wrote:

I repeat my previous post. This fact is now fight club. We,may never speak of it or post about here. K
Not ever!

Seeing as how I will never get him maxed anyhow (until they would catch it on their own anyway), I would rather the whales have one less advantage against me.

Vhailorx

notamutant wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

I repeat my previous post. This fact is now fight club. We,may never speak of it or post about here. K
Not ever!

Seeing as how I will never get him maxed anyhow (until they would catch it on their own anyway), I would rather the whales have one less advantage against me.

My alliance just squeaked through round 6 of team cap in the last hour of the event (after finishing team IM) and my LT was a 5* cap blue. I'll be damned if I you guys blab about it and prompt a quick fix!

The first rule of 5*cap's blue is we don't talk about 5*cap's blue!

bbf2

Well, its not working for me anymore. Looks like they nerfed it. It only does 2800 damage after casting Mohawk black now. God forbid that anybody gets a 5 star cover that's actually useful and doesn't screw over their scaling with zero benefit to the player. After all, you're not supposed to have fun, you're supposed to lose.

Polares

bbf2 wrote:

Well, its not working for me anymore. Looks like they nerfed it. It only does 2800 damage after casting Mohawk black now. God forbid that anybody gets a 5 star cover that's actually useful and doesn't screw over their scaling with zero benefit to the player. After all, you're not supposed to have fun, you're supposed to lose.

You are really being unfair man, this was clearly a bug, and if left unfixed it would destroy the game completely. The power in this condition is the most OP there has ever existed in this game. The power and Storm with one cover is doing 11k, with 3 covers and a maxed cap does 48k damage, at 5 covers it would do 64k (!!!!) and can basically kill anything in the game. For just 9black and 7 blue.

Vhailorx

Ugh, just pulled a yellow from my last LT. This power really is awful relative to the cost. I feel like you could almost double the value of every single effect and still have a balanced power. It takes a long time to get the ap to use this power at all, so then having to baby sit all of the various effects so they aren't wasted is just extra frustration. And it ends the turn and relies of CDs to boot?! This is a power that should end the match if it can be used successfully. Instead, at max level, it does about 1/5 the health of a 5* in single target damage, plus even less aoe, a 2 turn stun, and some mediocre special tiles. And this is supposed to be the primary power for 5icap? Pathetic. For 1 less ap, IM46 doesn't end the turn, places three CDs that proved damage resisdtence to big attacks and, if resolved, do 25k damage. And yellow isn't even IM's best power.

Why does demiurge keep designing these expensive 'grab bag' powers? Doing a little of this and a little of that for a very high cost is much much worse than two separate, cheaper powers that do a decent amount of 1 thing.

This has been demonstrated multiple times (fury yellow, doc oc green). GG is a much better design. His bombs are a grab bag that lets the player choose which effect to apply, and then applies a strong effect.

TxMoose

Vhailorx wrote:

Why does demiurge keep designing these expensive 'grab bag' powers? Doing a little of this and a little of that for a very high cost is much much worse than two separate, cheaper powers that do a decent amount of 1 thing.

completely disagree - armed and dangerous is awesome!! it had to be voted one of the top powers in the game, right? ....what? oh, nevermind. yeah, I agree.

Vhailorx

Thought experiment:

5*cap's yellow power costs 8ap. Everything else in 5* land is unchanged.

What is 5*cap's place in the 5* meta? I think this would turn him into the nova of 5* land. 3 relatively fast/cheap powers. None of them do knockout damage on the 5* level, but they are all fairly painful. He isn't a #1, but he would be a solid support option for several other characters.

Polares

Vhailorx wrote:

Ugh, just pulled a yellow from my last LT. This power really is awful relative to the cost. I feel like you could almost double the value of every single effect and still have a balanced power. It takes a long time to get the ap to use this power at all, so then having to baby sit all of the various effects so they aren't wasted is just extra frustration. And it ends the turn and relies of CDs to boot?! This is a power that should end the match if it can be used successfully. Instead, at max level, it does about 1/5 the health of a 5* in single target damage, plus even less aoe, a 2 turn stun, and some mediocre special tiles. And this is supposed to be the primary power for 5icap? Pathetic. For 1 less ap, IM46 doesn't end the turn, places three CDs that proved damage resisdtence to big attacks and, if resolved, do 25k damage. And yellow isn't even IM's best power.

Why does demiurge keep designing these expensive 'grab bag' powers? Doing a little of this and a little of that for a very high cost is much much worse than two separate, cheaper powers that do a decent amount of 1 thing.

This has been demonstrated multiple times (fury yellow, doc oc green). GG is a much better design. His bombs are a grab bag that lets the player choose which effect to apply, and then applies a strong effect.

Some design decisions for new characters are really really odd, it certainly looks like they have two different game designers, one is a good one is bad.

Rigth now, Steve is just better than SS, which is already very bad in the 5 meta. If you build a team around Steve's blue he still can do some serious damage, then red and yellow are just meh, usable but not great at all.

Then if we made his powers slightly cheaper as you said in your next post, like, his red should be 7 AP and his yellow maybe 9 (8 is probably too much), he would be much usable.

jobob

Cap really needs to be fixed. He is so much worse than Iron Man, it isn't even funny. Honestly, I put him behind SS.

Vhailorx

jobob wrote:

Cap really needs to be fixed. He is so much worse than Iron Man, it isn't even funny. Honestly, I put him behind SS.

Yup, assuming they do parrallel development, the cap dev team must have felt pretty chagrined when everyone showed their work at the end of the spring. . .

Polares

jobob wrote:

Cap really needs to be fixed. He is so much worse than Iron Man, it isn't even funny. Honestly, I put him behind SS.

Cap is bad, but SS is worse.

You can still build a team around Cap, so it would make him work, but there is no way to build a team around SS. It is true that at least SS can self-heal and it can't be stunned, but Cap is much stronger, at least he has the abilities to kill other 5s. I doubt SS can kill any other 5, not even going against himself

Said that, yeah, it would be nice a buff to Cap and specially to SS. They don't need to be the best 5s, but at least be decent enough so when you get a cover you don't feel 'robbed'

jobob

Polares wrote:

jobob wrote:

Cap really needs to be fixed. He is so much worse than Iron Man, it isn't even funny. Honestly, I put him behind SS.

Cap is bad, but SS is worse.

You can still build a team around Cap, so it would make him work, but there is no way to build a team around SS. It is true that at least SS can self-heal and it can't be stunned, but Cap is much stronger, at least he has the abilities to kill other 5s. I doubt SS can kill any other 5, not even going against himself

SS/IF/SW becomes winfinite once you get it rolling.

I agree, Cap may be slightly better on his own, but SS makes for a better support member by accelerating AP with charged tiles and black holes. Plus, you can ALWAYS use his powers.

Vhailorx

jobob wrote:

Polares wrote:

jobob wrote:

Cap really needs to be fixed. He is so much worse than Iron Man, it isn't even funny. Honestly, I put him behind SS.

Cap is bad, but SS is worse.

You can still build a team around Cap, so it would make him work, but there is no way to build a team around SS. It is true that at least SS can self-heal and it can't be stunned, but Cap is much stronger, at least he has the abilities to kill other 5s. I doubt SS can kill any other 5, not even going against himself

SS/IF/SW becomes winfinite once you get it rolling.

I agree, Cap may be slightly better on his own, but SS makes for a better support member by accelerating AP with charged tiles and black holes. Plus, you can ALWAYS use his powers.

I think i fall on the jobob side of this argument. Cap has stronger powers when you build a team to use those powers. But there are much better centerpieces around which to build a team. And SS provides more general utility by generating charged tiles, ap, and board shake. And he also can't be stunned and has true healing. all that means he is a solid support character to toss into a team if you need someone who uses blue and/or black.

So as an effective offensive power, SS is weaker than Cap. But in terms of someone I may use when building actual teams, SS might be slightly better.

Blahahah

For all of the flak people give SS, he is far from a bad character. He's no OML, but frankly who is?

As he stands, if your opponent's last character is anyone who isn't OML or popped Jean and your last is SS, you're insanely likely to simply outlast the opponent.

SangFroid

So it goes without saying that 5*Cap is in desperate need of a rework.

I have been thinking and with the release of Gwenpool the Devs now have some new tools in their toolbox. They should create a "Cap's Shield" special tile (a la Chekov's Gun but cooler looking like BB motivation tile) that when you match it it does damage to the opponent and when they match it it creates a protect tile. The shield would then respawn on another random tile on the board and be persistent as long as Cap is not downed.

Another suggestion is to have a passive that creates a power 100 protect every time he matches red yellow or blue. Then his blue becomes very useful and he becomes mid tier. His red should also count team members like IM46 red.

Polares

SangFroid wrote:

Another suggestion is to have a passive that creates a power 100 protect every time he matches red yellow or blue. Then his blue becomes very useful and he becomes mid tier. His red should also count team members like IM46 red.

I like this couple of ideas. Cap needs an ability that lets him create his own special tiles, and having a passive (yellow) that every time he matches a red or blue creates a shield would make him much better (a 400 shield at 450). First because there are no good shield creators in 5 land, and having 5s do so much match damage and so many strike tiles creators and passives that do damage (BB or Hulk), having a 5 with a cheap ability that creates shields would be really interesting. It would also feed to his blue and make him much stronger (with three blue matches to get the AP to fire his blue, blue would do 6k dmg already, without any extra help). His yellow is not adding anything and it is just copying Fury's yellow, so this one makes A LOT of sense. Then raise the damage of his red a bit, to 12k dmg and he is ready to go.