Poll - PVE format, which do you prefer?

sinnerjfl

hopper1979 wrote:

Lets add to your poll, when you say "hard and harder" I had to laugh, I have been easily clearing most of the nodes, the hard nodes start in the 70 and end around 150, the harder nodes start at 100 and end around 200 that is very doable. I have all but 3 3-stars championed, a couple of high level 4's none championed and all the 5s other than GG but I am not putting iso in those. I am not sure if I will get the CP reward this event but I will be very close, and if I do miss it will be due to laziness more than anything else. I have seen no change in the amount of grinding I need to do except no I get the full points. The one noticeable difference is the rankings, where I am at this point is about 50 ranks lower than where I normally would be at this point.

So to help people see why this event is "hard and harder" lets start putting the level ranges and possibly a general overview of your roster. I have a sneaky suspicion that most of your problems stem from having a very unbalanced roster with too many maxed 4 and 5 stars with little to no 3 and 2 stars to balance out your numbers.

Let's see, I have 6 champed 4*'s, pretty much every 3* covered (half of them champed), 5*'s are all under 6 covers and not leveled.
My roster is nowhere near high-end, I have a lot of covers but I'm lacking ISO like everyone (check yourself in-game if you want)

On sub 4, my nodes are ranging from 163 to 303 after 6 clears. Now you're gonna say that doesnt seem too bad right? WRONG
Even trivial nodes take 3 times as long, every node takes forever to beat and you have to clear those more times than ever. Let's not forget that we have Rulk/IMHB/KP powered-up which makes it easier but it's still taking forever anyway. What happens when they decide to buff the likes of Chulk/Mr F/FalCap... ugh.

By "harder" you have to understand more time-consuming and annoying. PVE clears are taking so long with this test it's not even funny and that seems like a consensus for anyone who is in 4* land.

hopper1979

I agree that is definitely a big jump and that is the information that is useful. So with only a few maxed 4-stars you level difference is significantly greater than my almost all maxed 3 with no maxed 4. That is a problem and I feel for you, what was the scale on the first attempt which was horrible, the levels jumped 15 ever win for me.

The new system is definitely better from the time standpoint, you do not have to play on some time cycle, which is very difficult if you work an 8-5 job, but the general trends should remain the same, 3-4 easy nodes that you can clear with your eyes closed and then slightly more difficult ones later. I think people need to see the level differences for this issue to become clear, so keep posting your levels and your key roster details, that might allow us to find some of the trends.

Frankly I feel as the level increases the point value of the node would increase, that would make it easier for those of you who start at such a higher level and make the rankings a little more realistic, again that is the one area I have noticed a dramatic change.

If there are any low level people posting lots of maxed 2-stars and some 3-stars tell us what you level range is, the more data the better.

TxMoose

hopper1979 wrote:

The new system is definitely better from the time standpoint, you do not have to play on some time cycle, which is very difficult if you work an 8-5 job...

this is the statement I don't understand. yes, you can play any time you wish and get the same points for the first 6 clears. but it takes so much longer per clear, takes more clears for progression, and apparently takes more clears to reasonably make t50. the overall time requirement nearly doubled. I have a desk job too, but I get a lunch. morning clear, lunch clear, and evening grind routinely put me in around 20th-40th (sometimes 10th). total time commitment of 2-3 hours. this takes way more than that. the scaling is down to where I can reasonably win, but extended time requirements are problematic. everything shut down here yesterday and I finally could get to green checks on everything - 7 clears of every node. that barely got me t50. that's just nutso. not sure if I'm in a death bracket or what, but if that's what it takes on a regular basis, I'm done with pve placement.

hopper1979

It takes more time if, and only if, you are getting the crazy scaling issues, I think that is the crux of the issue. That is why putting the details of the level range you are facing is very important. Everybody who is posting details after my first post has been in the 300 level range near the end of the node, I have not hit lvl 200 yet on a maxed node yet. If you have to grind through that it is going to take more time, no arguments here. So the time issue some of you are running into is due to the scaling, we need to figure out what is causing the dramatic scaling differences, and in turn, the very different time commitment, because I am having a hard time buying anybody would prefer the old system if the scaling was not so high for some of you. Or do you like waking up at 2-4 in the morning so you don't miss a max point reset?

I hate to say it but we may have to really crunch some numbers to figure this issue out. Some of the rosters that have been described are not different enough from mine to warrant almost 100 level difference in difficulty.

sinnerjfl

hopper1979 wrote:

It takes more time if, and only if, you are getting the crazy scaling issues, I think that is the crux of the issue. That is why putting the details of the level range you are facing is very important. Everybody who is posting details after my first post has been in the 300 level range near the end of the node, I have not hit lvl 200 yet on a maxed node yet. If you have to grind through that it is going to take more time, no arguments here. So the time issue some of you are running into is due to the scaling, we need to figure out what is causing the dramatic scaling differences, and in turn, the very different time commitment, because I am having a hard time buying anybody would prefer the old system if the scaling was not so high for some of you. Or do you like waking up at 2-4 in the morning so you don't miss a max point reset?

I hate to say it but we may have to really crunch some numbers to figure this issue out. Some of the rosters that have been described are not different enough from mine to warrant almost 100 level difference in difficulty.

Im gonna ballpark the numbers here, but the old PVE had 3 nodes at 30 - 50, 3 nodes at 150 - 300, and 3 essentials at 170 - 200. You also have to factor that with an 8h timer, the optical grind is less clears overall.

Example: I pick the 5pm end time. 1 clear at 5pm, 1am, 9am then I grind at the end about 3 to 4 times. That was good enough for placement (top20 and +) and it wasnt a huge commitment, clears take 30 - 40 minutes.

New system is 6 clears at beginning + like 5 clears for optimal play. Also, the nodes keep going +10 with each clear so it exponentially takes more time.

With more effort and time, im not even bothering for placement and I'm not even sure to hit the top progression with this test system. This is not right.

hex706f726368

slidecage wrote:

not sure why people keep making polls about this topic its already a dead horse.. If they were not plan on changing it they would not test it 3 times or at all... the new PVE will be here to stay once they get the AI worked out simple as that...

A way to fix PVE once and for all...


A... Make it all a group event (never happen)

B.. 1 full clear = ISO
1.5 full clears = hp
2 full clears = 2 star
3 full clears = 1 3 star
4 full clears = 2 3 stars
5 full clears = 3rd 3 star
6 full clears = 4 star
7 full clears = cp
8 full clears = 2nd 4 star
9 full clears = 3rd 4 star
10 full clears = punch in the nuts for grinding so much


but at least there your playing against the system and not against people

Chastises people for trying to have input on pve changes, then suggests pve changes...

BlackSheep101

hopper1979 wrote:

It takes more time if, and only if, you are getting the crazy scaling issues, I think that is the crux of the issue

My experience in this test is badly skewed by the RHulk factor. Early on, 9 green + IF + OML means matches take less than a minute. Later, 18 green ends the match. That kind of speed is hard to replicate without another massive AOE like Iceman. If I had to down enemies individually, the amount of time needed to hit max progression would still be higher under this new format, even with the greatly reduced scaling.

Just for giggles, and because my schedule allowed, I took every node down to 20 last night. I still didn't place in the top 10, which tells me there are enough people out there willing to grind early to start their timers and then grind late to maximize their score that I shouldn't even try for t10. Since 11th is as good as 50th, 7/7 is as far as I'll go.

Malcrof

for ISO Farming, the new way is best..for placement, the old way.

PeterGibbons316

Malcrof wrote:

for ISO Farming, the new way is best..for placement, the old way.

Why is there any difference for placement? It's still all the same people in all the same brackets spending what I would think would be approximately the same amount of time playing, shouldn't placement be pretty much the same?

Personally I'm putting in a similar amount of effort and seem to be placing similarly as I did before......

hopper1979

Placement is definitely an issue, I am 50-75 ranks lower for the same amount of time played which is going to suck when a new character come up. So again we need to look at the top players see what they are playing with, I have seem some comments saying many are 2-star teams with some maxed 3's are in the top 10. If that is true, is that a real issue, they cannot compete in pvp so at least they now have a chance to build their rosters.

Again I think we could fix this issue if their was a sliding scale with the jump in enemy level, this would normalize the scores somewhat and remove the grind that some people do not like or are seeing due to a dramatic increase in the time commitment. It also might be fixable by just making the tiles worth more but unfortunately I did not pay enough attention to the before conditions to notice if the nodes are worth more or less now than they were.

Thevipper

slidecage wrote:

not sure why people keep making polls about this topic its already a dead horse.. If they were not plan on changing it they would not test it 3 times or at all... the new PVE will be here to stay once they get the AI worked out simple as that...

A way to fix PVE once and for all...


A... Make it all a group event (never happen)

B.. 1 full clear = ISO
1.5 full clears = hp
2 full clears = 2 star
3 full clears = 1 3 star
4 full clears = 2 3 stars
5 full clears = 3rd 3 star
6 full clears = 4 star
7 full clears = cp
8 full clears = 2nd 4 star
9 full clears = 3rd 4 star
10 full clears = punch in the nuts for grinding so much


but at least there your playing against the system and not against people

I like this pve tab would really be pve than put only ranked rewards in the pvp tab and take out the progression rewards making it more fun and competitive.

Vhailorx

Malcrof wrote:

for ISO Farming, the new way is best..for placement, the old way.

How so? node rewards are exactly the same, and nothing prevented players from grinding each node 7 straight times immediately after a sub opened in the old system. If farming iso from nodes is the only priority, I don't see how the system makes any difference other than scaling up the difficulty of formerly trivial nodes. (in fact, since placement and progression are potentially harder in the new system, the total amount of iso from farming may go down).

VA5

I've stopped playing PVE, buff said

elusive

I still don't understand what benefit/tradeoff there is for enemies now getting stronger and stronger with each clear. Did anyone actually complain that the game was too easy?

Lilith

I don't understand why people are surprised that the enemies are going up in levels. They always did before. Now we just get a shiny new graphic to tell us just how much they went up each time.

UncleSmed

Yes elusive,

People complained endlessly that the pve game was too easy for people who soft capped their rosters and never took their characters past 94 - 100 in level.

Then they released 5 stars.. and everything went to heck.

Now they're stuck trying to find a balance.


I still like the new system's lack of reliance on timers and encouragement to either fork over cash or have an evenly developed roster.

Once it's in place, d3 can begin addressing the iso shortage.

Lukoil

I still like the new system's lack of reliance on timers and encouragement to either fork over cash or have an evenly developed roster.

But new systen still rely on timer. But now instead of 1 fast clear you need 6 fast full clears to stay at the top.

Vhailorx

elusive wrote:

I still don't understand what benefit/tradeoff there is for enemies now getting stronger and stronger with each clear. Did anyone actually complain that the game was too easy?

I think that people did actually complain vociferously. Those people were probably accountants and executives at demiurge and d3 who felt like the game could make more money if players faced a bigger challenge/hassle playing pve. Pacman didn't make money by being easy. It made money by being hard as **** and inducing people to spend more and more quarters.

TxMoose

Malcrof wrote:

for ISO Farming, the new way is best..for placement, the old way.

not sure how iso farming is better when before I hardly ever saw enemies over 300 and now at least 6-10 matches will be against 300+ enemies (although very winnable with a boosted rulk). additionally, there are no nodes in the 30s/50s/70s that I can quickly speed through for that iso. extending the time it takes to get to green checks is not an improvement for me.

Philly484

Once again scaling is not the issue. The new system works for a select few set of players. Rabbit players in particular get the most benefit out of this system, and those are the ones who consistently complained about losing their placement vs optimal players. Even aside from that this new system has yet to address the lack of rewards for increased difficulty. Sorry but facing a 300+ lvl Moonstone is not fun by any means when you don't get anything for defeating a highly overpowered team. I'm a vet player so I have an expansive roster and can find away to progress in PVE without spending hordes of money on health packs new or old system. However once again, I don't get how there are less complaints about rewards and more about scaling. This is all D3 has been addressing. When for the large number of vet players this shouldn't even be an issue for us. The issue is lack their of for defeating a Titan like PVE node and you get nothing in return. If the polls in various forums and the larger outcry of distaste for this new system was accurately portrayed by what players are responding too from the actual questionnaire seems like they shouldn't be still testing the new system. So if players truly don't like the new system reflect that in your response to D3's questionnaires, otherwise they wouldn't simply just be addressing the scaling issue.