Poll - PVE format, which do you prefer?

SnowcaTT

No option for neither. I'd play the new version if you needed 3-4 clears. I didn't play the old one based on needing to play every eight hours. I won't play the new one based on needing to play for three straight hours.

revskip

The new system is so much better for me. I can do all of my clearing in one sitting which leaves time the rest of the day to get in PVP matches.

like1tiger

I cannot stress enough how much i hate the new PvE. I like the old one as i can play it when i like and i can make it fit in with my busy life style. Not the new double time required for the same **** rewards.

UncleSmed

I went with new system ..
Why?
It suits my roster, and i see what they're trying to accomplish.

I've gotten slack in updating the link below.. but have 24 champed 3*'s and only one cover maxed 4* (IW).

The rest of my 3's are around 140 and picking them up slowly to champ them all as covers occur for the LT.
Got a few "usable" 4*'s (3/3/4 Nick Fury, 2/5/2 XFW, 1/4/4 4hor, 3/5/2 Starlord)

But lacking in some covers or power.. they're not great to level up focused.

And that's what d3 are doing to pve.
Most of the vets and forumites are pvp focused and thus don't use or care for 75% of all released characters.

D3 seem to be pushing for people to level up everything they have to be able to crush pve.

And i agree with the desire. Pvp is already a game where you pick the top ten characters and ignore everything else.. why should pve be set up to reward the same model of play??

El Satanno

I voted old because those truly trivial nodes were something my son and I could play together without worrying about wiping out my roster.

I'd also point out to everyone replying that two options are enough, strictly speaking: We have two choices of which style of existing PvE we prefer. Not "Do you like old/new PvE?" which is what many seem to be answering. I would very much like a hybrid of the two; old scaling/levels and new timers. But that's not the question.

Polares

UncleSmed wrote:

...

D3 seem to be pushing for people to level up everything they have to be able to crush pve.

And i agree with the desire. Pvp is already a game where you pick the top ten characters and ignore everything else.. why should pve be set up to reward the same model of play??

And how the f. are we supposed to do that when leveling every 4 is 400+k iso!?!?!?! I need more than a month to level any particular 4, a month!!! And we get a new 4 every two weeks. Man, I really hate when people in 3 land say that we should level all our roster...

Basically what devs are enforcing is to soft cap around 166-170 or 94 depending on where you are at the moment. These changes just basically kill progression if you want to do good in PvE


Devs can't (well they can, but they should not ) raise the amount of time needed for PvE without giving more rewards, this is something that looks obvious to everybody, except them...

PS: I obviously voted for the old one. I don't think anybody was really complaining about playing every 8-10 hours is not that bad, until they changed the format (now of course, for some people, this is the only thing that matters, it looks like they don't care about to having to do double the number of clears).

OneLastGambit

Always nice to see a poll with leading and loaded options...

The latest test is fine in my opinion. My easiest nodes are starting at 70 and ending around 150 and my hardest are starting at120 or so and finishing around 250.

In the old system my hard nodes started at 270 and went to unplayable levels. So the new scaling actually fits my roster. Which was the goal I presume.

6 clears is a bit much...but under the old system you would be grinding way more than 6 clears in your final grind anyway so I don't see that being much different apart from now you grind at the start instead of the end.

I don't think you're supposed to grind the new system to dust and the increasing difficulty means only those with advanced rosters will score highly, which again is supposed to happen.

EDIT: perhaps people wouldn't mind the grind of the prize was worth it. If the rewards were increased with the difficulty (and this making sure those not needing massive amounts of iso don't get it) then maybe doing that 6th clear would not feel so bad.

If you got 2.5k iso for the 6th (and hardest) clear...would you still not want to do it?

Polares

OneLastGambit wrote:

...

6 clears is a bit much...but under the old system you would be grinding way more than 6 clears in your final grind anyway so I don't see that being much different apart from now you grind at the start instead of the end.

I don't think you're supposed to grind the new system to dust and the increasing difficulty means only those with advanced rosters will score highly, which again is supposed to happen.

This is not a fair comparison, because if you are interested in placement/grind we are talking of 11 clears, not 6. It is 6 when the sub opens and 5 before it closes, so basically 11 clears all in one go. Before it was 5+1 (close and begin of sub) + 1 after 8 h + 1 after 8h. So 11 vs 8 for maximum placement. 11 vs 6 in one go, which is even worse.

Then for CP it looks like it is going to be from 3-4 clears in the old system to 5-6 in the new one, but this one is hard to know, we have had two tests with progression hard to get and one were it was really easy.

So, no matter what, it looks like you need to play MORE for the same results than before.

Crowl

Polares wrote:

This is not a fair comparison, because if you are interested in placement/grind we are talking of 11 clears, not 6. It is 6 when the sub opens and 5 before it closes, so basically 11 clears all in one go. Before it was 5+1 (close and begin of sub) + 1 after 8 h + 1 after 8h. So 11 vs 8 for maximum placement. 11 vs 6 in one go, which is even worse.

Then for CP it looks like it is going to be from 3-4 clears in the old system to 5-6 in the new one, but this one is hard to know, we have had two tests with progression hard to get and one were it was really easy.

So, no matter what, it looks like you need to play MORE for the same results than before.

Just as a matter of interest to see how it turned out, I have purposefully not done any more grinding on this event than usual and I'm usually in the t10/20 range under the old system, after four days of this event I was in 12th, which might be a little higher than I would expect due to the 4* rewards being ****.

As far as the progression target, I am going to be comfortably hitting it during sub 5 so it looks like it will take in the 4-5 clears a sub range for max progression, so only a slight increase from the 4'ish clears we would normally need.

They obviously still need to do a fair bit more to reduce the overall grind, but it is not the sky is falling disaster that some have characterised it as so far.

Polares

Crowl wrote:

Polares wrote:

This is not a fair comparison, because if you are interested in placement/grind we are talking of 11 clears, not 6. It is 6 when the sub opens and 5 before it closes, so basically 11 clears all in one go. Before it was 5+1 (close and begin of sub) + 1 after 8 h + 1 after 8h. So 11 vs 8 for maximum placement. 11 vs 6 in one go, which is even worse.

Then for CP it looks like it is going to be from 3-4 clears in the old system to 5-6 in the new one, but this one is hard to know, we have had two tests with progression hard to get and one were it was really easy.

So, no matter what, it looks like you need to play MORE for the same results than before.

Just as a matter of interest to see how it turned out, I have purposefully not done any more grinding on this event than usual and I'm usually in the t10/20 range under the old system, after four days of this event I was in 12th, which might be a little higher than I would expect due to the 4* rewards being ****.

As far as the progression target, I am going to be comfortably hitting it during sub 5 so it looks like it will take in the 4-5 clears a sub range for max progression, so only a slight increase from the 4'ish clears we would normally need.

They obviously still need to do a fair bit more to reduce the overall grind, but it is not the sky is falling disaster that some have characterised it as so far.

Yeah sure, just wait until a new 4 is featured and then we will really see. The price is just Mr.F imagine when there is something good.

Progression now is 20k more than last time (which is a lot more). I don't know why they decided to raise it, this means 1-2 clears for every sub will be needed, with much higher difficulty. They made it too easy in the second test, but now again they made it harder. Why?!?!!? Why not leave it as it was?

Philly484

If they would fix the reward issue. They need to have the rewards give a set per lvl of increase. For example:

1st clear - 70 Iso
2nd: 140 Iso
3rd: 250 Iso
4th: 500 Iso
5th: Heroic Token
6th: 500 Iso
7th: 1 Cp
8th: 1000 Iso
9th: Event Token
10th: 1500 Iso
11th: 2 Cp
12th: Lt Token
and etc....

Or something to that extent I'd much rather see something like that then, then getting regular tokens and critical boosts. the I would be fine with the new system. At least then the rewards would reflect the difficulty of what you are facing.

OneLastGambit

Polares wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

...

6 clears is a bit much...but under the old system you would be grinding way more than 6 clears in your final grind anyway so I don't see that being much different apart from now you grind at the start instead of the end.

I don't think you're supposed to grind the new system to dust and the increasing difficulty means only those with advanced rosters will score highly, which again is supposed to happen.

This is not a fair comparison, because if you are interested in placement/grind we are talking of 11 clears, not 6. It is 6 when the sub opens and 5 before it closes, so basically 11 clears all in one go. Before it was 5+1 (close and begin of sub) + 1 after 8 h + 1 after 8h. So 11 vs 8 for maximum placement. 11 vs 6 in one go, which is even worse.

Then for CP it looks like it is going to be from 3-4 clears in the old system to 5-6 in the new one, but this one is hard to know, we have had two tests with progression hard to get and one were it was really easy.

So, no matter what, it looks like you need to play MORE for the same results than before.

Interesting point but my original one still stands. Yep it's 11 clears in the new system but in the old one it would be 3 clears plus grind. During the grind there's a Good chance it would be more clears than 11 When you're grinding everything to 1 point.

I've done the grinding thing for new character releases and I've played every test so I feel reasonably placed to say that so far my results are roughly the same. I'm 9th overall so far and I have not hit any node more than 6 times on any sub.

In the pve where falcap was the prize I finished 8th by doing the usual 3 clears and a grind (overall id say 8 to 10 clears total per sub) so for slightly less effort in getting slightly lower placement in this one.

Id actually be interested in doing a new release in the new system to see how it would affect me there too (i've only failed t100 once for new character pve)

simonsez

OneLastGambit wrote:

[in the old one it would be 3 clears plus grind. During the grind there's a Good chance it would be more clears than 11 When you're grinding everything to 1 point.

You lose all credibility when you say stuff like that. Unless you're talking about 48hr subs, the usual system never makes you do 11 clears to get down to 1.

revskip

simonsez wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

[in the old one it would be 3 clears plus grind. During the grind there's a Good chance it would be more clears than 11 When you're grinding everything to 1 point.

You lose all credibility when you say stuff like that. Unless you're talking about 48hr subs, the usual system never makes you do 11 clears to get down to 1.

Are you including the initial 3 clears in that? I'm pretty sure it was close to 8 times getting it down to 1 the couple of times I bothered doing that. Add to that the initial 3 clears and you end up right at 11.

TxMoose

simonsez wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

[in the old one it would be 3 clears plus grind. During the grind there's a Good chance it would be more clears than 11 When you're grinding everything to 1 point.

You lose all credibility when you say stuff like that. Unless you're talking about 48hr subs, the usual system never makes you do 11 clears to get down to 1.

perfectly optimal was 9 right? and my sub-optimal in an easier time slot was 8. if I got to green checks (only 7), it virtually guaranteed me t20 in normal pve (t10 sometimes) and t50 in releases (sometimes t20 there). (note: my normal MO is join either a fresh slice on day 1 or midway through sub1 - I don't compete with the pve wackos ). the same effort (time invested) for me here gets me nowhere near the same placement. either 1) lots of people are playing lots more (I don't believe this), or 2) low-mid rosters up to 3* take significantly less time to clear due to scaling. I firmly believe it is #2 after hearing feedback from lower rosters.

OneLastGambit

I've only guesstimated how many clears in the usual system but I know it's more than 6 anyway.

In this current pve I've only done 6 clears and no grinding and so far I'm 9th over all.

In the previous pve (using old system) I did the 3 perfect clears and then a grind (totalling approx 7-9 clears) and ended up in t10. So for me it has not been massively different.


Maybe I got lucky slices but you can't argue with a fact. So far slightly less effort has yielded slightly less results and I'm comparing two pve back to back both with prizes that would be considered **** so I think it's very comparable. which is about expected.

Because I don't have time to do all my clears in one go (I'll agree here that if you have to do that then it's a good 4 hour commitment to do all 6 in one go) I just do them when I can and do not find it stressful at all. You could argue that I find it more fun since when it gets frustrating (and it does) I can take a break and come back later. In previous system your options are put up with the frustration or give up entirely since stopping costs you points.

Azoth658

Renaldoo wrote:

Honestly, the 8-hour refreshes were the worst thing ever. It boggles my mind that anyone would want to go back to that.

It's simply that with the new system I can't hit the top progression rewards because I can't play for that long. With the old system I couldn't score high placement wise but I could play for an hour or two a day and get 25CP to slowly progress my roster.

hopper1979

Lets add to your poll, when you say "hard and harder" I had to laugh, I have been easily clearing most of the nodes, the hard nodes start in the 70 and end around 150, the harder nodes start at 100 and end around 200 that is very doable. I have all but 3 3-stars championed, a couple of high level 4's none championed and all the 5s other than GG but I am not putting iso in those. I am not sure if I will get the CP reward this event but I will be very close, and if I do miss it will be due to laziness more than anything else. I have seen no change in the amount of grinding I need to do except no I get the full points. The one noticeable difference is the rankings, where I am at this point is about 50 ranks lower than where I normally would be at this point.

So to help people see why this event is "hard and harder" lets start putting the level ranges and possibly a general overview of your roster. I have a sneaky suspicion that most of your problems stem from having a very unbalanced roster with too many maxed 4 and 5 stars with little to no 3 and 2 stars to balance out your numbers.

Bowgentle

hopper1979 wrote:

I have a sneaky suspicion that most of your problems stem from having a very unbalanced roster with too many maxed 4 and 5 stars with little to no 3 and 2 stars to balance out your numbers.

No, that's not it.
I have 13 4*s champed, 35 3*s champed, 8 2*s champed, plus a 345 OML.

My easiest node is at 175 after 7 clears, my hardest node is at 312.

Can I clear those with my championed Rulk?
Sure I can.

Do I have an advantage because of champed 4*s? Nope. Clears still take forever, I still take a ton of damage if I don't get 18 green within 6 turns or so.

PeterGibbons316

hopper1979 wrote:

Lets add to your poll, when you say "hard and harder" I had to laugh, I have been easily clearing most of the nodes, the hard nodes start in the 70 and end around 150, the harder nodes start at 100 and end around 200 that is very doable. I have all but 3 3-stars championed, a couple of high level 4's none championed and all the 5s other than GG but I am not putting iso in those. I am not sure if I will get the CP reward this event but I will be very close, and if I do miss it will be due to laziness more than anything else. I have seen no change in the amount of grinding I need to do except no I get the full points. The one noticeable difference is the rankings, where I am at this point is about 50 ranks lower than where I normally would be at this point.

So to help people see why this event is "hard and harder" lets start putting the level ranges and possibly a general overview of your roster. I have a sneaky suspicion that most of your problems stem from having a very unbalanced roster with too many maxed 4 and 5 stars with little to no 3 and 2 stars to balance out your numbers.

I agree. On this Washington sub my hardest node stopped at 311 and with Rulk and IMHB boosted I have 5 characters on my roster at 315+, so the difficulty was no where near what it has been in the previous two tests and much preferred for me. I made through my initial 6 clears with all my health packs remaining (I did use a couple, but I clear the hardest nodes first and the regenerated on the easier nodes).