jozier wrote: Nobody is envious of you. Cheaters are like children who need training wheels on their bicycle. They aren't good enough nor skilled enough to do anything on their own.
Phantron wrote: Actually people might cheat because they don't have the time to invest into this game or that they can't handle the pressure of a PvP tournament (it is obviously very intense) but still want to play a variety of teams. To me it's no different than using a godmode cheat on some of the impossibly difficult single player games out there that expects you to spend a few hundred hours to pay homage to the game before you're worthy. As long as D3 is able to quarantine these guys, it doesn't bother me whatever motive people may have for cheating. Not everyone wants to play a game competitively.
gamar wrote: Phantron wrote: Actually people might cheat because they don't have the time to invest into this game or that they can't handle the pressure of a PvP tournament (it is obviously very intense) but still want to play a variety of teams. To me it's no different than using a godmode cheat on some of the impossibly difficult single player games out there that expects you to spend a few hundred hours to pay homage to the game before you're worthy. As long as D3 is able to quarantine these guys, it doesn't bother me whatever motive people may have for cheating. Not everyone wants to play a game competitively. Honestly, if I knew exactly how the "sandbox" works so I knew I wouldn't miss any features, and I wouldn't want to just cheat and deprive anyone ELSE of rewards/points on my way to getting sandboxed, I might ASK to be sandboxed, I enjoy playing a lot more than I enjoy competing v v
pandaberry6 wrote: This is my favorite prank game devs pulled on hackers:http://www.gamezebo.com/news/2013/05/01 ... ting-games
Phantron wrote: This game is basically along the new line of thought that if people enjoy cheating, you might as well let them as long as you can quarantine them from rest of the population. I don't think D3 really cares if you continue to play in your sandbox world where you place first every single time (not that it'd matter because with cheats you can already get any cover in the game buy just buying all the 4000 HP packs). And there probably is value to D3 to have the guys in their sandbox getting 1st every single game. At the very least, these guys won't be around spreading lies about how they were unfairly banned which may indeed actually hurt your game.
Phantron wrote: I think one of the Batman games had the same thing, if you had a pirated copy there would be one part in the game that you cannot complete and it'd also randomly crash if you're using a pirated copy, and people who pirated the game trashed the game for being buggy and having a broken encounter that cannot be won. The problem is, the piraters probably won because they sure aren't going to let people know it's because they're pirating the game. Many of them probably aren't even aware that's what's causing the game to crash, and while it's a humorous story once you know why the game is crashing, it could've easily cost them sales if you were getting advice from a friend who pirated the game. It's entirely possible both you and your friend had no idea this is the game's anti-piracy mechanism so you'd both come to the conclusion that this game sucks.
pasa_ wrote: Yeah, no problem with letting the play along in the sandbox. But before that D3 allows ruining other people's play -- see the recent post in the elite tournament's topic with the 5 wins in 2 minutes with the no-team. As a fellow programmer *I* feel shame for such utter incompetency is allowed to thrive, and not even show signs of want to get better.
The Ladder wrote: Just come across a guy in PvP who has every single character in the game maxed out. Including Black Panther and Psylocke. Surely the developers have ways and means of tracking this sort of activity, and don't have to rely on people like us to report it?
Phantron wrote: pasa_ wrote: Yeah, no problem with letting the play along in the sandbox. But before that D3 allows ruining other people's play -- see the recent post in the elite tournament's topic with the 5 wins in 2 minutes with the no-team. As a fellow programmer *I* feel shame for such utter incompetency is allowed to thrive, and not even show signs of want to get better. What you do with cheaters is a totally different issue with trying to detect cheaters preemptively. Short of rather draconian methods you're not going to prevent all the damage done by a cheater before they're caught (you'd basically have to be spying your users). If you don't spy on your users you're always limited in how well you can prevent cheating. That's why it's a good idea to focus on how to deal with the fallout assuming the spying method is out.
walkyourpath wrote: I'm pretty happy with the current state of cheaters and how the devs deal with them. Sure, I bet there's more that can be done on the server side to prevent even more, but I've seen dozens of people rocket up the leaderboards and then drop off to sandboxville. Enough that I feel like my competitive experience is being protected. Nothing can protect you from someone using the fat pockets hack, however.
Phantron wrote: It's actually because this game is very easy to hack that it is also very easy to catch cheaters because since all you have to do is tell the server "I got a billion HP and iso' and the server will happily accept that, it's also very easy for the server, who is actually keeping track of the HP/iso you ought to have, to realize that you are cheating. If you have a more rigorous model, people would just find out more complicated methods to hack. The arms race game is rarely in favor of the game company. Cheaters are very resourceful and it takes something on the level of spyware to actually stop them, because unless you're secretly hijacking the player's computer to see what they're doing behind your back, you'll generally lose to the cheaters. Right now the game is so easy to cheat that anyone can do it, and if it's so easy that anyone can do it, it's also very easy to catch anyone that's cheating because nobody's going to bother devising sophiscated methods of cheating when it's so easy to cheat.
pasa_ wrote: walkyourpath wrote: I'm pretty happy with the current state of cheaters and how the devs deal with them. Sure, I bet there's more that can be done on the server side to prevent even more, but I've seen dozens of people rocket up the leaderboards and then drop off to sandboxville. Enough that I feel like my competitive experience is being protected. Nothing can protect you from someone using the fat pockets hack, however. Is the latter interesting to protect against? I play the game for free and some of the joy comes exactly from that fact: I can fare okay in the fiels where many people use outside assistance. Some to a really huge amount.
pasa_ wrote: I'm sorry to call **** the same logic could be applied to your home banking system, right? If the server knows you're about to spend money you don't have on the account, there is exactly zero reason not to apply cheater terms immediately. What arm race where all you can hack is the requests? Any sensible setup considers the client untrusted, able to send whatever composition of bits at any time. And you certainly can make your central component to sort out legit ones.
walkyourpath wrote: pasa_ wrote: walkyourpath wrote: I'm pretty happy with the current state of cheaters and how the devs deal with them. Sure, I bet there's more that can be done on the server side to prevent even more, but I've seen dozens of people rocket up the leaderboards and then drop off to sandboxville. Enough that I feel like my competitive experience is being protected. Nothing can protect you from someone using the fat pockets hack, however. Is the latter interesting to protect against? I play the game for free and some of the joy comes exactly from that fact: I can fare okay in the fiels where many people use outside assistance. Some to a really huge amount. More just making a silly comment. Whales are a necessary thing in this sort of economic model; I'm happy to see people dropping loads of cash on the game, as this means the devs can afford to keep creating content and adding features. I've spent about $60-$65 in total on MPQ over 4 months, and I consider it to be in line with a subscription fee for something like WoW. $20 of that was for ISO during the V-Day sale, which didn't really help my roster much at ALL, but I tend to want to support stuff I want to see stick around. The F2P model needs all kinds to thrive - free players to ensure a large player base, hybrid players like myself who occasionally spend but aren't giant revenue drivers, and big spenders to fill the coffers and tempt hybrid/free players to drop some of their hoarded HP on stuff when they see the whales with a maxed 141 Panther (SO JELLY). Not to mention, a Pay2Win player usually has a sizable disadvantage against a non-paying or low-paying player with a decent roster, as they haven't learned all the tricks and strategies necessary that make a huge difference in these events (ex. How to maximize rubberbanding, how to tank, etc.).
walkyourpath wrote: More just making a silly comment. Whales are a necessary thing in this sort of economic model; I'm happy to see people dropping loads of cash on the game, as this means the devs can afford to keep creating content and adding features. I've spent about $60-$65 in total on MPQ over 4 months, and I consider it to be in line with a subscription fee for something like WoW. $20 of that was for ISO during the V-Day sale, which didn't really help my roster much at ALL, but I tend to want to support stuff I want to see stick around.