PVE Scaling Feedback & New Test : Unstable Iso-8

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Comments

  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    "David wrote:
    Moore"]In general, people were playing the event more.
    Of course we were. You set the progression award way too high, and you made it so that optimal play required playing about 6 consecutive hours. And some people are obsessive enough to do it. But just because this test required people to play more, doesn't mean people were enjoying the game any more. Are you just looking at gameplay metrics, or are you also looking at all of the verbal feedback in which the overwhelming majority of people said they hated the changes?
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    "David wrote:
    Moore"]
    o 2-Star Essential missions are the easiest and 4-Star Essential missions are the hardest.
    So any time a new 4* is the essential, it's basically a 2 vs 3 battle at the hardest difficulty? This doesn't sound fair or fun.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    DuckyV wrote:
    Unless the difficulty is ramped WAY down, I don't see myself playing PvE competitively anymore because the biggest issue is the MASSIVE time sink for optimal play in the new format. Please, please, please, reconsider it.
    Ditto. I have no desire to do 6 clears after a 2-3 hour grind.

    Remember when we didn't get the anniversary lightning rounds because the devs said they led to player burnout? Who in their right mind doesn't anticipate massive player burnout if this PvE format becomes the standard?
  • Inarius
    Inarius Posts: 138 Tile Toppler
    Oh great, another event where you have to send 3-6 hours in the game, hitting every node for all their worth :-/

    Also, it's funny that they didn't mention anything about the rewards themselves increasing along with the enemy lvls....where's this line, oh devs

    - Node rewards will increase along with enemy levels after each clear (everyone voiced their opinion on this yet it silently gets swept under the rug, gg guys)

    do you honestly expect the majority to throw-down with a 2xx enemy node for 70 ISO?
  • Melevorn
    Melevorn Posts: 137 Tile Toppler
    It's nice that the devs have listened to some of the feedback.

    It's a shame that they retained the timer that activates after the sixth win - this is what drives the "massive play-session" effect and its removal (along with the already-done removal of rubberbanding) is key in detaching success in PvE from playing according to the clock.

    If the devs don't want those with no lives outside of MPQ to dominate PvE, then just remove the 'competitive' ranking and have all rewards come via progression. Easy.
  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 3,399 Chairperson of the Boards
    we are testing this again= ALL say hello to the new way PVE will be ran in the next couple months.

    i like to thank D3 and everyone who made this game in giving me the chance to play something that was fun and intertaining for the last 16 months BUT if this is the way PVE is changing im going pure PVP and then maybe just quitting.

    how i ran

    Pick the noon slice.. get home from work around 2 play a clear... Hit a clear about 8pm and crash.. Get back up and grind from 7am to 9a,

    Now how i understand it i need to

    Hop on at 2pm and play 2-3 hours to get my 6 clears in... Then come back at 7am and grind again for another 2 -3 hours... for covers i will never use...... no thank you
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,495 Chairperson of the Boards
    "David wrote:
    Moore"]Hi everyone,
    [/list]
      Updated Mission Difficulty Details:
      • Every mission got easier.
        o The easy missions more so, increasing the range of difficulty.
      • Essential missions have a range of difficulty across the different star tiers
        o All are easier than the previous run of the updated mission difficulty. o 2-Star Essential missions are the easiest and 4-Star Essential missions are the hardest.
      Progression rewards for the 3-Star cover and Command Points have been lowered.”

      Are there going to be bonus tokens and or CP for participating in this test?
    • Ryudoz
      Ryudoz Posts: 102 Tile Toppler
      I still think that the 4* essential should be a progression reward, like the other two covers. That way those that don't have the cover can still get something along the way.
    • rbdragon
      rbdragon Posts: 479 Mover and Shaker
      Want to increase plays but still make the players relatively happy?

      Remove the initial 24 timer, and replace with a countdown that that goes the entire length of the sub -2 hours, and it begins immediately in the background. Allow 6 max plays before you see reduction, but the countdown is always going (ex - if you finish the 6th clear with 7 hours left, the countdown says 5hrs, if you finish it with 12 hours left, it says 10hr). If you do clears when the timer is active, the points still reduce, and 24hrs are added to the refresh (mainly for calculation reasons). Increase the prizes to 10/node, but give "top prize" in each node 1st.

      Casual players get the top prizes immediately so they can do minimal clears.
      Grinders can space out their time without penalty or complete burnout.
      Players don't hate on D3 as much.
    • stowaway
      stowaway Posts: 501 Critical Contributor
      simonsez wrote:
      "David wrote:
      Moore"]In general, people were playing the event more.
      Of course we were. You set the progression award way too high, and you made it so that optimal play required playing about 6 consecutive hours. And some people are obsessive enough to do it. But just because this test required people to play more, doesn't mean people were enjoying the game any more. Are you just looking at gameplay metrics, or are you also looking at all of the verbal feedback in which the overwhelming majority of people said they hated the changes?

      You edited out the part where he mentions better win rates. The better win rates part makes me think he's talking about the 900 people whose low engagement with the game makes the top 100 possible.
    • Nellyson
      Nellyson Posts: 354 Mover and Shaker
      Do the devs ever plan on testing the rewards system instead of the actual difficulty? Couldn't you test a progression reward system for covers? That can't be impossible.
    • Juggernut
      Juggernut Posts: 10 Just Dropped In
      First off, thanks to the developers for putting the effort into trying to fix PVE and so I feel like I should at least give it another go and test it out......but.....I won't. The old model was already unreasonably grindy, difficult, and time consuming if you wanted top tier rewards. That last test model made all those aspects 2x worst albeit some minor positive adjustments. I was hoping for a whole new revamped system but it looks like that won't be the case anytime soon since the insane grind-fest is still part of the core system.

      In addition, I hope that the developers' don't conclude that "...generally more people participated in that last test event" is automatically a good sign. It was a long event and the game lacks content which leads to this next question...........why is prologue still there if everything is locked out?
    • pabasa130
      pabasa130 Posts: 208 Tile Toppler
      I'm surprised with people complaining about the theoretical amount of time needed to get competitive placement (at least for non-new characters events) .

      In the previous EotS test, I won first place just by hitting all single nodes 7 times to get all rewards (didn't grind those), and focusing my attention on just the wave nodes for points. And I hit them all throughout the day without regard for optimal points.

      I did not:
        - hit all nodes 6 times when the subevent opened just to trigger the timer. - need to grind all nodes down to 20 points at all, as all I needed to do was just score higher points than second place.

      I did spend a lot more time doing the nodes (it was waves after all) so I did play more than a sensible person should, but as i suggested previously, this can be alleviated by reducing the amount of hits to trigger the timer down to 3 instead of 6. Hopefully Demiurge will test this as well before executing this.

      People should depend less on theoretical possibilities and focus on the practical and actual realities instead. Of course in theory someone can keep hitting nodes to get 20 points all day and win based on that, but it's dumb and I got first place without needing to do that.
    • pabasa130
      pabasa130 Posts: 208 Tile Toppler
      aesthetocyst wrote:

      I believe the reason for 6 clears before timer is to allow players to play whenever they want, including the option to farm out the node rewards whenever they want, whether that be throughout the day or in a marathon session or in some mix of both, and not be penalized in regards to placement for doing so.

      Want to pry out all the node rewards right away? New system: no problem! Old system: you can if you want, but your score will be neutered.

      It also creates a choice for players ... keep playing for no reward for high placement, or not? I think this is the devs attempt to limit the crazy grinding. More clears are possible under the new system, but will players do them "for free"? Fewer will ... perhaps.

      I agree with your assessment in the intention of limited crazy grinding, and yes as the grinds give out no more rewards, fewer players will continue except for competitive players. My only issue is that hitting nodes 13 times to exhaust the node instead of 11 today would make me spend more time on the game than currently. I suppose it could be alleviated by reducing the number of hits to exhaust the node down to 3-5 instead of 6?
      aesthetocyst wrote:

      Playing this new system optimally never involved hitting any node for only 20pts, even once, much less spamming them. Players who make full use of the refresh would crush anyone grinding nodes for 20/pop ... and expend less effort in doing so.

      Yes, bad example on my part, but I wanted to state that the theoretical optimal performance (i.e. Hit nodes 6 times when subevent opens to trigger timer, hit nodes 7 times again before subevent ends, and keep hitting the easiest node to farm 20 points) is not realistic and I didn't have to do that to get first place. I suppose people *will* do that for a new character but I don't think it's sustainable.
    • rawfsu
      rawfsu Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
      I'll give it another shot, especially since it's not EotS. Let's see how it goes. Will there be anymore tests for PvP in the future?
    • Jam_Adams
      Jam_Adams Posts: 486 Mover and Shaker
      changes sound like they are in the right direction, but quite simply, 6 hits is way too many. that requires too much time, and asks too much of your players.
    • BigRussian
      BigRussian Posts: 166 Tile Toppler
      Melevorn wrote:
      If the devs don't want those with no lives outside of MPQ to dominate PvE, then just remove the 'competitive' ranking and have all rewards come via progression. Easy.

      icon_e_biggrin.gif that. I think I would play even more if I knew that I had to progress to a certain plateau in PVE rather than strategically join an event for optimal start time to get t10.

      my 2 imcoin.pngimcoin.png
    • Unknown
      Unknown
      Smudge wrote:
      ZeiramMR wrote:
      "David wrote:
      Moore"]
      As to the note from Anthony that people were playing the event more... didn't we kind of have to?

      This. Weasel words.

      "People played the event more" is not = "more people played the event".

      I joined EotS on day 2, the bracket never got to half full by the end of the end, and the LINE community was vitriolic about it. I'd like to see the actual numbers rather than the careful spin.
    • ZootSax
      ZootSax Posts: 1,819 Chairperson of the Boards
      pabasa130 wrote:
      I'm surprised with people complaining about the theoretical amount of time needed to get competitive placement (at least for non-new characters events) .

      The biggest complaint I had on time was how much longer each clear took due to the increased difficulty. I never worry about placement, because the groupings are such a luck-of-the-draw, but I do only have a fixed amount of time to play each day. The same amount of time per day that has me coasting to the LT in the current Dark Avengers Heroic didn't even get me the 3* progression in EotS.

      That said, I'm cautiously optimistic about the next test. Having multiple tests to work out the new system seems smart and the return of (hopefully) trivial nodes means I'll actually be able to use my non-well covered characters like I normally do in PVE. Also, the improvement in communication is also a good sign. We shall see...
    • Phumade
      Phumade Posts: 2,495 Chairperson of the Boards
      Jam_Adams wrote:
      changes sound like they are in the right direction, but quite simply, 6 hits is way too many. that requires too much time, and asks too much of your players.

      Maybe the next test will look at reducing the number of hits before the time runs. Since, I can't use the Chulk or Colossus covers I'll just play this casually for ISO.

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