PVE Scaling Testing - Enemy Of The State (03/17/16)

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Comments

  • ocarina59
    ocarina59 Posts: 15 Just Dropped In
    I have a lot more fun to play with this new method and more time to enjoy my family. I hope you will not go back to the old. icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,301 Chairperson of the Boards
    ocarina59 wrote:
    I have a lot more fun to play with this new method and more time to enjoy my family. I hope you will not go back to the old. icon_e_biggrin.gif

    Well if this game was eating into your family time you need to just drop the game.
  • alphabeta
    alphabeta Posts: 469 Mover and Shaker
    "David wrote:
    Moore"]Hello everyone,


    - Previously, missions increased in difficulty based on your performance within the event. Mission difficulty is now set at the start of the event and does not change for the duration of the event.

    Then explain to me how Beast essential in sub 1 started at level 80 - 90 and start of sub 2 beast essential was 156 - 222

    Isn't that exactly what you said wouldn't happen - what are things going to be like on final day?

    Can we just call this a failure close EotS down and run a sensible normal event while you all go back to the drawing board and work out what the hell you are doing?
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    Stop trying to redo pve with caveats and just make them like growth industry with more progression rewards that are reasonable.

    No one in their right minds wants to see the same nodes 30 times for rewards.
    This system actively promotes not leveling your characters.

    Every problem with this system could be seen by playing the game for 10 minutes.
    Do you really think people want to play nodes 6 times in a row?
    Or play against people who have time to?

    If you really want to promote hard events, or more being about difficulty quit all the ' do this node 40 times in one bracket but get top 10 if you just skip 3 events"

    but knowing you guys, you'd likely read that statement as get rid of new vs vet brackets.

    http://41.media.tumblr.com/687361f938f7 ... x_1280.jpg
  • DrStrange-616
    DrStrange-616 Posts: 993 Critical Contributor
    JCTthe3rd81 wrote:
    One thing I like, and I hope this is not a glitch, is that CP nodes offer 2 CP instead one. I assume that this is just for this event, a little extra reward for the players that participate. But making this a permanent thing would be nice. Or instead of 2 one CP nodes, make 4 one CP nodes. All 3 essential and then the final node

    JJ

    I assumed this was because the first sub was 48 hours.
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mission Difficulty
    The first thing I want to talk about is how the difficulty of the missions are changing. Previously, the system presented you with opponents based on your characters’ levels. There was a couple of quirks with this system. In some circumstances, it could be disadvantageous to level characters, or to add a high-level character to your roster. Now, the game will take into account both your heroes’ power levels and heroes’ levels into account when establishing the difficulty of the mission

    So about that... After one sub it looks like more of the same
  • Ducky
    Ducky Posts: 2,255 Community Moderator
    I want to call out shenanigans regarding the difficulty of the event being set at the beginning of event. The beast essential in the second sub start out over 100 levels higher than it did in the first. That is some crazy high ramping!
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    DuckyV wrote:
    I want to call out shenanigans regarding the difficulty of the event being set at the beginning of event. The beast essential in the second sub start out over 100 levels higher than it did in the first. That is some crazy high ramping!
    I noticed that, but I also noticed the points tripled as well, so I don't really mind.
  • madok
    madok Posts: 905 Critical Contributor
    Now that I'm almost done with the first sub, I have some additional thoughts.

    1. I really LOVE clicking REVIVE <insert max 4* character here> after every fight
    2. I can't bring myself to even try for the last CP in the final Wolvie node because he is level 353 now. Caltops were doing almost 2000 a pop. Thanks but no thanks.
    3. Did I mention how much I LOVE reviving the 3 toons I can fight matches with?
    4. Staring longingly at the 98% of my roster that is useless. They look so pretty.

    On a serious note, I do like the timing change. I'm not constantly checking the clock to see if I need to get ready to do a clear.

    In my mind the perfect version of this would be lower the initial difficulty way down for everyone. This would allow folks that want to farm a little ISO to have some fun. Move all the placement rewards into the progression chart. This includes the 2*, 3* and 4* covers but do the math to require a decent investment of time to get the higher ones. Do a Sub progression like PVP/season for the sub placement rewards. If you really want the top prize you have to grind a bit against the harder versions but that is your choice.

    On the scaling front, make it static levels for everyone. So that you have the built in walls it feels like you want. 1* rosters can make it only so many clears before it becomes impossible. 2*s can make it a few more clears and so on. People that have those championed 5*s can beat everything but they aren't hurting anyone doing it and it is up to them if they want to invest all that time for 4* covers.
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,581 Chairperson of the Boards
    zodiac339 wrote:
    Less time intesive because at the beginning of a leg, you're not clearing each mission once. You're clearing it six times to get the 24 hour reset. Nine missions six times each. Then at the end, you're clearing nine missions six times each, then clearing the next set six times. That is the Beta optimal point structure for EotS. If someone has a team sharing the account instead of working alone, totally possible (barring lack of health packs) without keeling over. Alone? No. That's a horrible way to compete. A true "Play when you want to" would have no competition (like gauntlet) but lead to alliances getting no PVE rewards because there could be no placements any more. Which would leave the horrors of PVP as the only competition.

    Let's try this:
    First three nodes, trivial, a place to relax. Does not scale. Points remain stable over 3 attacks, then reduce with a recharge timer.
    Top three nodes. Scale up in difficulty and points over three attacks, then reduce from there with a recharge timer.
    Required character nodes like trivial nodes with no scaling, but at a higher difficulty.
    Increase the points loss on all nodes to 1/3 loss instead of 1/6 to reduce the end of leg grind to something more reasonable and less exhausting.
    The competitors will have to do those three hardest missions to get their placements. Non-competitors should still be able to get the Progress rewards through the other missions and maybe hitting the harder nodes if they're missing a required character.

    I think they need to get away completely from the idea of a recharge timer, simply lock the nodes after x amount of clears and just unlock them for the last hour or so for placement grinding.

    I hope they back off from this increased difficulty on what were previously the trivial nodes, people were complaining about the difficulty and scaling of the hard nodes and not the gap between the trivial and hard nodes.
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
    CaptainFrugal wrote:
    nick_chicane wrote:
    I agree with keeping this format of PVE, but the scaling does need drastically scaling back. Completed my 4th clear of the 1st sub and the hardest fight with Wolverine is up to 283!!!! My highest ranked guy on my roster before boosts is 3* Thor championed at 170. The easier fights need to return to. My easiest fight is over 200 and I only get a reward of 160 points for beating it! Thats not right.

    I have to beat Wolverine at 283 and my highest level (not including 2, 5 star characters with one useless cover each...seriously OML kills himself with just one red cover) is 2 star Captain Marvel at 144. The scaling is terrible with this new change. If the the nodes were drastically reduced in difficulty and the scaling issue fixed this could be a very good system. As is now most people cannot use the majority of their roster. I am at the point where I am considering ditching my 5 star characters and using command points for 3 star character covers. Getting a 5 star (that is not even usable at this point) is crippling me. I went from being competitive and an asset to being irrelevant in my team.

    I had 3 5*s and they were literally crippling me. As someone who doesn't even use 4* characters yet, I felt there was no point whatsoever keeping the 5*s. Sold them and my scaling dropped by about 60 levels, which did become a lot more fair. Well, until this latest change anyway.
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    madok wrote:
    Now that I'm almost done with the first sub, I have some additional thoughts.

    1. I really LOVE clicking REVIVE <insert max 4* character here> after every fight
    2. I can't bring myself to even try for the last CP in the final Wolvie node because he is level 353 now. Caltops were doing almost 2000 a pop. Thanks but no thanks.
    3. Did I mention how much I LOVE reviving the 3 toons I can fight matches with?
    4. Staring longingly at the 98% of my roster that is useless. They look so pretty.


    you do understand this applies to all players not just players with 4 star characters?

    even people with 2 stars deal with the same situation, with slower attacks that are generally worse.
  • madok
    madok Posts: 905 Critical Contributor
    GurlBYE wrote:


    you do understand this applies to all players not just players with 4 star characters?

    even people with 2 stars deal with the same situation, with slower attacks that are generally worse.

    I'm going to guess they aren't facing the same scaling though from looking at the leaderboard in my slice/bracket though since they have a good portion of it.
  • edgewriter
    edgewriter Posts: 68 Match Maker
    Here's a possible solution to the scaling part of the issue. Have 5 star characters not count for scaling. That way 2 star players with a couple five star covers arent crippled. Same for three star players trying to transition to 4 star like me, who have several 5 star covers but no way we could actually use them to play competetively.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,762 Chairperson of the Boards
    Here is my idea on how to take what the Dev's are testing in PVE and make it better. What the Dev's are trying to do is make more battles similar to your roster, but in the test it is more about how many matches can you win with your A team. The other issue with PVE is the debate of placement over progression. The trick is how to make progression worth more and placement a solid bonus. Also how to make scaling appropriate. Here is my personal feeling on how PVE should look.

    Progression: individual progression remains the same as is. There will now be an alliance progression that will give out 3 covers. 1 4* for normal PVE 3 for new character PVE. There will also be event tokens, and ISO, CP, and HP.
    For placement for new characters top 100 get 1 cover top 10 gets 2 covers, #1,2 gets 25 CP. for existing PVE top 150 gets 3*, top 50 gets 2 3* top 10 gets 1 4* and top 2 gets 25 CP as well. This will allow bigger rewards for alliance progression and placement over individual placement. Individual placement will still be worth it for the grinders and competitive people.

    For scaling I will give an example for a 4* roster and it should scale according to roster. First 3 nodes start at level 50 and progress up from there for 7 wins. It would look like 50, 75, 100, 150, 175, 200, 240. His way they will scale with a buffed 3* at 240 still leaving you a lot of options to compete but still increased difficulty.
    Last 3 nodes should get harder. 166, 200, 240, 270, 300, 325, 350. The first part you can use your 3* yen your buffed 3* then your 4-5*.
    Essentials can be somewhere in between 125, 150, 175, 200, 225, 250, 275. For the most part you should be able to take them down with buffed 3* at the end. There can be play between all levels.
    Lastly rewards should be based on the difficulty. he higher your scaling goes. He higher the rewards. Once you get above 250 you should be earning 500-1000 ISO not 70.

    This is how I feel PVE can be more appropriate with some easy nodes, have more rewards based on progression, but still have a competitive nature to it.
  • Jwhitmire36
    Jwhitmire36 Posts: 52 Match Maker
    madok wrote:
    GurlBYE wrote:


    you do understand this applies to all players not just players with 4 star characters?

    even people with 2 stars deal with the same situation, with slower attacks that are generally worse.

    I'm going to guess they aren't facing the same scaling though from looking at the leaderboard in my slice/bracket though since they have a good portion of it.

    Half of the top 10 in my bracket have 2* or less rosters, the person ranked 6th currently has over 22,000 pts with these top 6 characters, frustrating...

    257 jean grey phoenix
    78 cstorm
    70 quake
    70 thor goddess
    68 b panther
    55 beast
  • Sluggo
    Sluggo Posts: 504 Critical Contributor
    I finally joined and played a few nodes of this event. I'm so aggravated and upset I'm not sure where to begin. I feel cheated, and there's no doubt in my mind I'd quit if this system ever became permanent.

    I've been playing MPQ a year and still don't have a usable 4* character, which speaks volumes about the glacial pace at which you progress in MPQ. It's a massive grind. For the last six months, I've been in the 2->3* transition, waiting patiently for someone to do something about the 5* auto-scaling problem, which has been creating havoc for me in both PVE and PVP.

    So finally, this is the proposed solution? Make my easy nodes start at 133 so EVERYTHING is frustratingly punishing, and I have to use health packs after every single fight?

    No. Just no.

    To be fair, I think there's some interesting stuff happening in this test. I'm not against blowing up the 3-clears-a-day model, replacing it with a system that gives you the flexibility to play when you want, and is more a test of how far you can grind against enemies that keep increasing in difficulty. If enemies started at the levels we're accustomed to, and you could clear "easy" nodes 6-8 times before they started spiraling out of control, it might feel a little more fair.

    But in this incarnation, this feels like a scam designed to eat up health packs. And more importantly, it just isn't any fun. Getting my **** kicked on the easiest nodes in the game? All I've wanted for months is for the 5* scaling problem to get fixed, and this is the exact opposite. Thumbs down.
  • DrStrange-616
    DrStrange-616 Posts: 993 Critical Contributor
    I don't think this is a plan to sell health packs. I think it's an attempt to throttle the top end players a little. They created a "monster" and now can't figure out how to rein it in.
  • Keegan
    Keegan Posts: 284 Mover and Shaker
    Feedback from a noob, been playing daily for five weeks:

    Like most here: not what I was expecting. This is a negative.

    My roster is nothing shiny, being new. Nothing championed, nor even close to it. A few 4* characters, some 3*, mainly 2* working on leveling them up in the sixties.

    In the previous events, with the exception of the Quake new character event, I was able to finish t20, if not t10, simply through dedicated play on the 8 hour schedule. I'd finish with around 10k points, no. 1 usually had between 12k and 15k, and the t10 finishers had varied rosters from 5*, 4* champs, 3* champs, 2* champs, to feeble ones like mine.

    In this event, with my time available to play being exactly the same, I finished with 5k points, in the t500. Usually after the third round on a node it became unplayable. The t10 all have over 25k points and all have 5* multiple covers with 4* champs.

    Parity clearly went out the window in favor of deep rosters and grinding. There aren't enough health packs in the world for a new player to keep up, let alone someone who has been around for over a year and has a decent roster and has spent far more than I have at this point. If I'm miffed, I can only sympathize icon_e_sad.gif

    I know this wasn't the intent, but to echo others, we just wanted the scaling fixed, and to not have to sell 5* covers because our roster can't handle it for a couple of years.
  • Sluggo
    Sluggo Posts: 504 Critical Contributor
    DrStrange-616 wrote:
    I don't think this is a plan to sell health packs. I think it's an attempt to throttle the top end players a little. They created a "monster" and now can't figure out how to rein it in.
    If it's an attempt to throttle top-end players, it's a flop, because I'm not a top-end player (as I mentioned, zero functional 4* characters), and it's throttling me a LOT. Because PVP matchmaking is still broken for anyone with 5* characters, PVE is my only realistic route to any progression, and just this one event will be the loss of a week of various progression rewards, including 25 CP and some Th3r covers I could have used. If this system ever became permanent, my meager progression would effectively cease.

    As someone in the 3* range, I need this game to become more forgiving, not more punishing. The fact that my first clear of my first "easy" node required three health packs to recover from is extremely discouraging.

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