PVE Scaling Testing - Enemy Of The State (03/17/16)

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  • CNash
    CNash Posts: 952 Critical Contributor
    Following on from my previous post, the most positive change to this event is the ability to play whenever I want without worrying about missing out on points that haven't refreshed yet. It's nice to be able to hit a random node when I feel like playing.

    Don't get me wrong, everything I said before still stands. You've got to ease up on the horrendous enemy scaling and give us back some easier nodes - in other words, start the difficulty curve a lot lower. I shouldn't be seeing level 200+ enemies on my fourth clear with a predominantly 3* roster; I'm restricted to using whoever's maxed and boosted - for me that's just four characters out of my twenty-one maxed and championed 3*s.

    To reiterate: this structure is going to alienate anyone who can't adjust to the new "optimal grind" mentioned dozens of times in previous posts. You might say "well we didn't intend for everyone to grind like that", but if wishes were horses, you know? People will grind like that, just because they can, and these folks will get Top 10 while everyone else - who at least had a shot at a 4* cover under the old system - is left in the dust.
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    After a day to sleep on it and after doing my full 7 clears (not doing any more) I can say this.

    It's not as terrible as it seems.

    Why?

    I've figured out the intention here, they don't want you to grind so they've Made it highly unpleasant to do so. I'm still missing one CP from sub1 and I'll leave it since the frustration is worse than the missing cp. The good is now I can chill out and not worry about pve.

    The initial clears took 3 hours, much longer than under the old system and I pretty much only used 2 teams (charlie's angels & LCap, im40, Rulk) but after 7 clears I'm in 32nd place. Why is this good? Well if I'd simply spaced my clears out instead of all in 1 go then I'd be in the exact same postion but not annoyed. I think this was how the devs expected people to play and intended for it to be played.

    My gripe is that I did use easy nodes to experiment with my roster previously and after the first clear I'm restricted to 2 teams only, that needs to change. Perhaps only have the harder nodes increase in difficulty while the easier ones stay fixed for less points then people can still experiment.
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    Crowl wrote:
    JordanFromJersey wrote:
    3. Remove the countdown timer all-together. Make it so that you can beat every node 7 times(once for Survival Nodes) and then it locks.

    4. Make Progression equal to the number of possible points available. If you beat every node 7 times(1 for Survival) you get your 25CP(remember, this is with the difficulty toned down). Alternately, make it equal to 6 out of 7 completions if you want to be nice.

    They need some mechanism for tiebreakers, they should lock the nodes after 7 clears, but then reopen them for the last hour or two for those who wish to battle for placements.


    My question for this last bit is...why?

    Why can't two people tie and both get the top prize? That's win for both parties. Seems strange that people would absolutely insist that only one person wins
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm starting to like this new mode a bit better.

    Yes scaling is a bit ridiculous. HOWEVER, you CAN play when you want and get t10. Though, maybe it will be a bit different with new character pve. I'll take this crazy scaling (though it could be dialed back a bit) over having to set an alarm every 8 hours. You truly can just do a clear and play nodes when you want.

    I vote to keep it with reducing a bit of the scaling.
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,581 Chairperson of the Boards
    OneLastGambit wrote:
    My question for this last bit is...why?

    Why can't two people tie and both get the top prize? That's win for both parties. Seems strange that people would absolutely insist that only one person wins

    It wouldn't just be two people though if there were just 7 clears and then it locked, it would be hundreds to start with and possibly many more as time went on.

    The crucial changes they need to be making are to entirely remove the need or benefit of that double grind at the end of one sub and the start of the next, having an hour or two at the end of each one seems like a good compromise for all parties while maintaining as much of the flexibility of this new pve system as possible.
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
    I agree with keeping this format of PVE, but the scaling does need drastically scaling back. Completed my 4th clear of the 1st sub and the hardest fight with Wolverine is up to 283!!!! My highest ranked guy on my roster before boosts is 3* Thor championed at 170. The easier fights need to return to. My easiest fight is over 200 and I only get a reward of 160 points for beating it! Thats not right.
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,487 Chairperson of the Boards
    Figured I'd give the 2nd sub a look...I mean, look at all this negative feedback, maybe they'll way, WAY scale back now?

    Nope, it's the weekend and the first sub I see (S1) is levels 200+. Time to just give up on this PVE and hope we never see this format with this scaling again.
  • nwman
    nwman Posts: 331 Mover and Shaker
    Today sub 2 starts, it has already for s1 and s2 is under 3 hours away so the first double grind is starting.

    This means the worst part is just beginning and look at all the complaints we have already gotten.
  • thanos8587
    thanos8587 Posts: 653
    nwman wrote:
    Today sub 2 starts, it has already for s1 and s2 is under 3 hours away so the first double grind is starting.

    This means the worst part is just beginning and look at all the complaints we have already gotten.

    you want to see complaining, just wait for hells kitchen.
  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
    acescracked wrote:
    I'm starting to like this new mode a bit better.

    Yes scaling is a bit ridiculous. HOWEVER, you CAN play when you want and get t10. Though, maybe it will be a bit different with new character pve. I'll take this crazy scaling (though it could be dialed back a bit) over having to set an alarm every 8 hours. You truly can just do a clear and play nodes when you want.

    I vote to keep it with reducing a bit of the scaling.
    The structure promotes an unhealthy life style for those who want to compete, even more so than I normally see from games. For those with jobs or school, it basically demands all free time for the end-of-leg grind straight into the start of leg grind. Is the game aimed at the unemployed? Good luck with them getting jobs at all. The 8 hour recharge system leads to sub-optimal point gains, but at least there's more down-time to relax.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    acescracked wrote:
    I'm starting to like this new mode a bit better.

    Yes scaling is a bit ridiculous. HOWEVER, you CAN play when you want and get t10.
    Screw that, not in my bracket... Are you with the noobs?
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    thanos8587 wrote:
    you want to see complaining, just wait for hells kitchen.
    Who'll still be playing this event by then? I thought plan was to drive up their event attrition metrics... come on, stick with the program, people!
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    acescracked wrote:
    I'm starting to like this new mode a bit better.

    Yes scaling is a bit ridiculous. HOWEVER, you CAN play when you want and get t10.
    Screw that, not in my bracket... Are you with the noobs?

    Heh! Nah. I'm in 3rd over 10k behind first. But the cover rewards are bad so maybe nobody is really trying.
  • ocarina59
    ocarina59 Posts: 15 Just Dropped In
    I like this! This means I can play whenever I want. Easier to plan my playing time. icon_e_wink.gif
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    zodiac339 wrote:
    acescracked wrote:
    I'm starting to like this new mode a bit better.

    Yes scaling is a bit ridiculous. HOWEVER, you CAN play when you want and get t10. Though, maybe it will be a bit different with new character pve. I'll take this crazy scaling (though it could be dialed back a bit) over having to set an alarm every 8 hours. You truly can just do a clear and play nodes when you want.

    I vote to keep it with reducing a bit of the scaling.
    The structure promotes an unhealthy life style for those who want to compete, even more so than I normally see from games. For those with jobs or school, it basically demands all free time for the end-of-leg grind straight into the start of leg grind. Is the game aimed at the unemployed? Good luck with them getting jobs at all. The 8 hour recharge system leads to sub-optimal point gains, but at least there's more down-time to relax.

    That sub-optimal clearing of nodes with the 8 hour refresh time really would hurt your placement.

    How is the non-beta system less time intensive? 2.5 hours before end of sub you grind every node 5 to 7 times. Then when the new sub opens try to do a clear as fast as you can which takes another 30-45 mins. So, 3 plus hours. AND, you have to buy health packs if you run out since you can't let nodes sit at full points since everyone can clear those nodes.

    The new beta pve; I open a sub do a clear and a few extra nodes or I don't. I hit nodes throughout the day when I have time...not when some timer says I need to. Yes the scaling is bad in this new beta pve, but there has to be a way to separate the placements. The way that was done in the non-beta pve is by whoever did have the most free time to be able to hit nodes on an MPQ dictated schedule.

    I play on a tablet that I have with me at all times. Now when I feel like playing I open MPQ and play a few nodes at full points. Instead of setting an alarm waiting for my nodes to be fully cooked.

    Yea, if this beta pve format is in place for a new character no idea if I could stay top 10 playing like that.
  • Druss
    Druss Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
    Heh! Nah. I'm in 3rd over 10k behind first. But the cover rewards are bad so maybe nobody is really trying.


    0

    We're trying just not succeeding! The whole damn event is trying!
  • zodiac339
    zodiac339 Posts: 1,948 Chairperson of the Boards
    acescracked wrote:
    zodiac339 wrote:
    acescracked wrote:
    I'm starting to like this new mode a bit better.

    Yes scaling is a bit ridiculous. HOWEVER, you CAN play when you want and get t10. Though, maybe it will be a bit different with new character pve. I'll take this crazy scaling (though it could be dialed back a bit) over having to set an alarm every 8 hours. You truly can just do a clear and play nodes when you want.

    I vote to keep it with reducing a bit of the scaling.
    The structure promotes an unhealthy life style for those who want to compete, even more so than I normally see from games. For those with jobs or school, it basically demands all free time for the end-of-leg grind straight into the start of leg grind. Is the game aimed at the unemployed? Good luck with them getting jobs at all. The 8 hour recharge system leads to sub-optimal point gains, but at least there's more down-time to relax.

    That sub-optimal clearing of nodes with the 8 hour refresh time really would hurt your placement.

    How is the non-beta system less time intensive? 2.5 hours before end of sub you grind every node 5 to 7 times. Then when the new sub opens try to do a clear as fast as you can which takes another 30-45 mins. So, 3 plus hours. AND, you have to buy health packs if you run out since you can't let nodes sit at full points since everyone can clear those nodes.

    The new beta pve; I open a sub do a clear and a few extra nodes or I don't. I hit nodes throughout the day when I have time...not when some timer says I need to. Yes the scaling is bad in this new beta pve, but there has to be a way to separate the placements. The way that was done in the non-beta pve is by whoever did have the most free time to be able to hit nodes on an MPQ dictated schedule.

    I play on a tablet that I have with me at all times. Now when I feel like playing I open MPQ and play a few nodes at full points. Instead of setting an alarm waiting for my nodes to be fully cooked.

    Yea, if this beta pve format is in place for a new character no idea if I could stay top 10 playing like that.
    Less time intesive because at the beginning of a leg, you're not clearing each mission once. You're clearing it six times to get the 24 hour reset. Nine missions six times each. Then at the end, you're clearing nine missions six times each, then clearing the next set six times. That is the Beta optimal point structure for EotS. If someone has a team sharing the account instead of working alone, totally possible (barring lack of health packs) without keeling over. Alone? No. That's a horrible way to compete. A true "Play when you want to" would have no competition (like gauntlet) but lead to alliances getting no PVE rewards because there could be no placements any more. Which would leave the horrors of PVP as the only competition.

    Let's try this:
    First three nodes, trivial, a place to relax. Does not scale. Points remain stable over 3 attacks, then reduce with a recharge timer.
    Top three nodes. Scale up in difficulty and points over three attacks, then reduce from there with a recharge timer.
    Required character nodes like trivial nodes with no scaling, but at a higher difficulty.
    Increase the points loss on all nodes to 1/3 loss instead of 1/6 to reduce the end of leg grind to something more reasonable and less exhausting.
    The competitors will have to do those three hardest missions to get their placements. Non-competitors should still be able to get the Progress rewards through the other missions and maybe hitting the harder nodes if they're missing a required character.
  • CaptainFrugal
    CaptainFrugal Posts: 67
    First I am happy to see them working on making changes for the better, but is this for the better?

    Pros- No longer having to try to schedule times to play to get the most points. This is a great thing for casual players!

    Cons- Scaling has went from poor to terrible, with this method I cannot use 80% of my roster. I have asked about this with my team and others on FB and they feel the same way.

    Suggestions- Reduce the enemy levels they are simply too high from the start. If people cannot use their rosters until they are fully covered and maxed in level what is the point of getting roster slots and getting more characters.
    Change the scaling system to eliminate outliers and smooth the leveling application. For example I do not have any three star characters fully leveled yet, but since I have two (one cover, and to be fair useless cover at the time) 5 star characters the system is leveling the nodes so high that they are unbeatable.
    Consider throwing out the top and bottom 2 or 3 characters (depending on roster size) for scaling. Aim more for the middle enabling the tougher challenges to push the use of higher level characters and let the early nodes be used for lower level characters. This would provide a way for people to use the lower level characters and get more use out of their roster. If this change happens (especially with the close out of the prologue) their is not way to use and test new characters without getting decimated.

    The only thing that I see this new system being effective at is pushing people to purchase health packs.

    I appreciate the attempt to make things better but overall I think this change has some benefits but it widely missed the mark.
  • CaptainFrugal
    CaptainFrugal Posts: 67
    nick_chicane wrote:
    I agree with keeping this format of PVE, but the scaling does need drastically scaling back. Completed my 4th clear of the 1st sub and the hardest fight with Wolverine is up to 283!!!! My highest ranked guy on my roster before boosts is 3* Thor championed at 170. The easier fights need to return to. My easiest fight is over 200 and I only get a reward of 160 points for beating it! Thats not right.

    I have to beat Wolverine at 283 and my highest level (not including 2, 5 star characters with one useless cover each...seriously OML kills himself with just one red cover) is 2 star Captain Marvel at 144. The scaling is terrible with this new change. If the the nodes were drastically reduced in difficulty and the scaling issue fixed this could be a very good system. As is now most people cannot use the majority of their roster. I am at the point where I am considering ditching my 5 star characters and using command points for 3 star character covers. Getting a 5 star (that is not even usable at this point) is crippling me. I went from being competitive and an asset to being irrelevant in my team.
  • IamTheDanger
    IamTheDanger Posts: 1,093 Chairperson of the Boards
    One thing I like, and I hope this is not a glitch, is that CP nodes offer 2 CP instead one. I assume that this is just for this event, a little extra reward for the players that participate. But making this a permanent thing would be nice. Or instead of 2 one CP nodes, make 4 one CP nodes. All 3 essential and then the final node

    JJ

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