PVE Scaling Testing - Enemy Of The State (03/17/16)

Warbringa

SnowcaTT wrote:

It seems like most folks don't mind scaling - even extreme scaling - if it STARTED lower.

What if every node was "trivial" (way, way easier than currently) - but then each of those first seven times the difficulty increased by 20 levels instead of 10(ish)?

You could be playing level 20 through level 120 guys round one, and they would be level 160-260 when you get around to the end grind of them. Not tough enough? Increase by 25 levels each time, 195-295. Or 30 levels each time, or 40, 50....this could easily be adjusted in this test.

Sounds like this would solve lots of the issues out there:

Folks who want easy ISO for a few rounds could get it.
Folks who want shorter grinds would get it until they get past hitting the nodes the first five times.
The end tougher levels would still be a challenge for those who want the challenge.
The early levels wouldn't be so brutal for those who don't want that challenge.
Those end grinds on a harder difficulty would still determine placement (though no one seems to like that....)

Scaling from easy -> difficult (even very difficult) doesn't seem like it would offend. Scaling from difficult -> are you kidding?....that is what people seem to be having the problem with.

Snowcatt you are on to something there. Make it so you can get progression if you clear each node 4 or 5 times and let the masochists going for placement grind the extremely hard difficulties for more and more points etc. For most players, PvE is about progression and nodes not placement. In fact placement should be removed for a simply longer (and better rewards) progression.

madok

I was just going to suggest exactly what SnowcaTT just did. The existing scaling is bonkers.

I just wiped hard core on the first bloody node with my 4* Clops/Xpool/Ice group. They were all boosted over 200 and all have at least 9 covers each. The levels I was facing was 186-249.

If I can't win with boosted 4*s, why even keep all my nerfed Champed 3*s around other than a horrible Essential node?

On a side note: My 5*s are very sad. They loved actually getting used on all the real trivial nodes. Now they are destined to rot with the 95% of my roster that sucks now.

quicktrigger

I've been playing this game for years and this new pve sucks bigtime. My scaling is rediculous and after going through the fist round I didn't even want to fight it again. If you think playing every 8 hours is bad, this is horrible. Instead of grinding for 3 hours a day, you have to grind all day if you want to be top 10. If you really want a true pve, it should be something like Ultron event where you can play anytime you want and accumulate enough scores for the prizes you want, and includes group alliance play to achieve those rewards instead of a blanketed pvp where only top 10 can get a set of 4 star covers. I would consider pve like Ultron event to be closer to a truly true PVE. And bring back more gauntlet events which we can play anytime we want, or better yet modify gauntlet event to make it more of pve like beating those events will add up alliance scores and reward the alliance when a total amount of score is reach for beating all those gauntlets.

Moon Roach

Thumbs up for posting in the game an update and a link to a webpage with the details . The Steam version at least. I haven't turned my tablet on since the event started to check if there's anything for Android.

DeNappa

So, harder from the beginning, and progressively harder to grind. Huh, I didn't think that was really necessary.

But when reading this:

Our goal with this change is to make Story events more about beating challenging missions rather than having to beat missions quickly at set intervals during the day.

I immediately thought 'Why don't they just scrap the fundamentally broken 'competitive' element from PVE then, and make it all about progression rewards, both individually and for alliances ('alliancally'? ). With some decent rewards reachable in not a too excessive amount of play time.

/edit: to elaborate: they're saying the current 'grinding' system is wrong, but with this change they are just attacking the symptoms, effectively just shifting the problem to another point, instead of attacking the root cause.

RoboDuck

Did my first clear. Initial scaling was surprisingly not bad. 1st node was 132, last node 187, which is actually lower than the last node in Simulator, which was 237.

With that said, I can see alot of those nodes being unbeatable after 3-4 clears. They all went up 15-20 after I beat them.

Bring back the actual "Easy" nodes though. Half my roster is utterly useless, when the "Easy" nodes start that high. Only 26 of my 76 characters are above the starting point with Boosts. Whats the point of having a big roster if that many are useless?

Edit for roster info:

8 3* Champions (highest 175, lowest 167)
13 other 3* with max covers, but not max level
Two 4* with 10 covers, 1 with 9, 1 with 8. All underleveled.
5 Champed 2*

Of those 30 characters, 7 are boosted for this event.

OneLastGambit

Hmm I'm gonna weigh in without emotional hyperbole expressed by many (i am a scientist after all)

The main issue is time. Want decent placement then clear 3 or 4 hours of your daily schedule. This new system (for optimal play) means 7 grinds straight away on nodes which get increaingly harder and take an increasing amount of time to beat due to ridiculous health pools. I did my optimal clear earlier and it took 3.5 hours and incidentally after clear 1 it was simply impossible to do with any team except one very particular configuration of two 3* and one 4*. Previously an optional clear took about 20 mins.

And as pointed out, your last grind is not 5x as it seems. Its actually 12x grind since one leads into another so the time problem gets worse after the first sub.

I work, on average, 65 hours a week, often in16 hour stretches well into the night. I simply don't have a big block of 3.5 hours (5 after the first sub) to donate to this game so I'll never get a decent placement award again.

I agree with snowcatt you really need to switch 4* prizes to progression for pve if you stick with this format and make it so that If you do every clear them you make the final progression. You can throw some big sums of iso in for placement rewards and solve two problems at once

madok

After breaking out Jeanbuster + DD (for stuns), I was able to beat the first "trivial" node. All 3 now need healthpacks. I went ahead and actually beat the next node with all 3*s by breaking out my galactus team of Hulk, Storm and Punisher. Hulk needs a healthpack after that fight. Thanks for the 70 ISO for all that effort too. I think I'm done though after looking at the next node and seeing a level 271 Wolverine. I don't feel like needing 3 more healthpacks just for critical boosts.

This isn't fun. Thanks for the motivation to go do PVP. So your goal of having less grinding has definitely worked. Why torture ourselves for **** rewards?

Phillipes

Oh god. I cant play that sub 1 even once. I played 5 nodes, 3 times lose with A team.
No chance with ANY other team.
IT TOOK ME 40 MINUTES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Difficulty is insanly crazy!
Absolute epic fail !!!

And how could this change discourage grinding???
It is even more grindy than ever !!!
Everyone who wants to be top 50 must play several hours a day !!!!

Unknown

I don't really mind what the system is fir calculating difficulty, but it needs to be transperant and fair.

As i understand it, the current system punishes your roster if you have 4 or less characters that are much stronger than the rest of your roster, which in turn cripples diversity. So the optimal strategy is to level your roster evenly, throttling difficulty and allowing you to use the most options in your roster.

I'm concerned the new system will punish you for not being able to fully level your roster due to iso shortage. I'm likely to be in a situation where I have a one cover 5* and the rest of my 60+ roster at around level 115 due to even leveling.

Will having 13 power 3*s at 115 now cripple my roster because I should have left them at 8 to 10 powers?

screaminviking

I'm a casual player with a somewhat solid 3 roster.

The change in the difficulty of the "easy" nodes is definitely a turn-off. The first "easy" node (Protect Your Neck) is at 135-136 for me. Based on Anthony's numbers, this is higher than I expected, as I don't think I have a "max 3 " roster.

FWIW, my top ten characters are:

5 1/1/0 lvl 255
5 0/0/1 lvl 255
3 lvl 171
3 lvl 171
3 lvl 171
3 lvl 171
3 lvl 170
3 lvl 169
3 lvl 169
3 lvl 169

and most of the rest of my 3's and 4's are lvl 140 or below.

action711

Wow, I don't think I've read even ONE positive comment about the way they're trialling.

But Snowcat's comments may absolutely perfect sense if you're going to do it like this, and it makes me wonder why, if you could come up with the amazingly brilliant idea that is Champions, you didn't do it like Snowcat said in the first place.

Lower the levels initially, let us watch movies and relax and enjoy the game for a bit, and then if we're really bothered then up them like crazy.

At least let us do 3 clears every 8 hours for a sub before ramping up the levels to competitive level. You can ISO farm and progress, and then proper compete if you really want.

Now that would be progress

wymtime

Going into my first clear and my big bad wolverine with 2 goons feeding wolvie colors is level 269. My biggest buffed character is beast at 270. I took it down with min damage with beast Electra and Hood. Shadow step saved my hide on a couple of moves and hood stealing red was key. Now it is up to 287 a 17 point jump.
2nd survival mode 282-291 enemy agents goons have 11k health used JG, pro X, GSBW and cleared easy
Nowhere to Run level 298 wolvie and 2 goons running 4Thor, KP, IM40 got 12 yellow and game over nose went up to 309
Ghost rider node level 227 my ghost rider is at level 70 cleared easy with IM40 4thor now level 247
Captain marvel 1 cover Marvel level 70 node 227 cleared with IM40 4Thor now 247
Beast essential level 91-92??? My beast is boosted to 270??? Cleared with beast hood, psylock. Now at level 100. Also my easy survival mode for round 2 it is 185-262. This is the toughest one since there is so many nodes and so many ninjas.
My roster has 5 4* championed highest level 275. OML 285. 35 3* championed and 3 2* championed lots of under levels 4*

Leugenesmiff

I don't get the part about no more rubber banding. I just joined the 5pm block and am 29th at 0 points. The top ten has first place at 467, then 2-10 at 140 points. Yet the first mission, for me, is worth 467 points. How did the others get only 140 points if the first mission is for 467?
Edit: Just finshed the first fight worth 467 and the people directly below me have 327 points. I don't see how though.

Leugenesmiff

OJSP wrote:

Leugenesmiff wrote:

I don't get the part about no more rubber banding. I just joined the 5pm block and am 29th at 0 points. The top ten has first place at 467, then 2-10 at 140 points. Yet the first mission, for me, is worth 467 points. How did the others get only 140 points if the first mission is for 467?

They either lost on the 2nd wave of the survival node. Or, actually just beaten the 1st wave and the game server has already counted the points.

Oh, ok. Thanks man. I had no idea you got points for beating parts of the fight and not all of it.

RoboDuck

One thing I want know. When we win a node, the mobs level goes up some random amount. Why do they not go down when the beat us? Thats a pretty one-sided game mechanisms.

Vomit Fountain

So I'm probably just going to be repeating what everyone else is saying but I'm not really digging this new format.

I do love the idea of not having to do the 8 hour interval for maximum points since that seldom works into my schedule but the scaling seems to have killed any advantage to that. I'm finding that nodes quickly become beyond my ability to do or that my character choice is extremely limited. I'm burning through heals a lot faster so even if I can do the nodes I still end up having to wait. I don't know that I'm necessarily doing worse but the new format really isn't helpful in any way to me and is more frustrating than anything. If the mission scaling was dialed back a bit I think it might be a better experience.

Sandwichboy

"David wrote:

Moore"]

· Opponents shouldn’t have more than 13 Power levels at any point.

This right here is one of the most interesting things of this test. PLEASE ADD THIS TO CLASH OF THE TITANS.

Polares

This is even worst than I expected.

After 2.5 - 3 hours of continuous play, I decided to stop to write this post and go to sleep. With this time I did one clear, then completed all the essentials and the last node so the 24h clock for regen has started (6 times), and that's it, I didn't have time for more, I would probably need one hour and a half or two hours to do the six clears for all the nodes. This is way more than I expected, motivated for the extra difficultynd the survival nodes. Chosing this event to start this test was just stupid.

For reference, I have championed Cyclops and Iceman (360 OML blocked) and I stopped with just one health pack left. Difficulty in normal essential nodes was raising by 20 levels, it has raised from 209 to 309, with still one more clear to do. The hardest node was raising 11 levels for every clear, from 287 to 353. Of course I needed to use the same team in all nodes, and when we would run out of health packs that's it, any non buffed champion is not good enough to play.

Competitive PvE is over for me, playing for 5 hours or more (in this event you need like seven) to get maximum points is too much for me.

Chipster22

It would be nice to have retained at least three easy nodes for ISO farming purposes.

However, what really concerns me is that the #1 player in my bracket has a level 78 Quake as their top character, Ghost Rider at level 74, and nothing else over level 70.

My top character is an OML at level 304 and I have nine others at level 270 or above. What was the point of investing the ISO in my roster if #1 can be reached with much lower levels?