PVE Scaling Testing - Enemy Of The State (03/17/16)

JVReal

What if they locked your roster on the different sets of nodes?

Traditionally there are a few Trivial nodes, a few Easy nodes, and then the Normal - Hard - Deadly nodes.

What if they locked out 3*-5* for Trivial, and you had to use your 2* characters. Then locked out 4*-5* on Easy. Then locked out 5* on Normal, and then full roster for Hard and up?

And the scaling for each section could be based on your roster of unlocked characters?

Malcrof

JVReal wrote:

What if they locked your roster on the different sets of nodes?

Traditionally there are a few Trivial nodes, a few Easy nodes, and then the Normal - Hard - Deadly nodes.

What if they locked out 3*-5* for Trivial, and you had to use your 2* characters. Then locked out 4*-5* on Easy. Then locked out 5* on Normal, and then full roster for Hard and up?

And the scaling for each section could be based on your roster of unlocked characters?

Interesting, make it sort of like DDQ, you can only use 2* on these, 3* on these, open roster on the rest... that would make the "trivial" nodes way more fun., and promote roster diversity.

Polares

I really hope TODAY devs acknowledge they made a mistake with this changes and at least they lower the scores of the progression rewards so we can get the 25CPs playing just a couple of clears of this event, and not the 4-5 clears, at much higher difficulty, that it looks we would have to do to get them.

In fact, why is it that there is no one single red today trying to adress our prblems with these changes?

They communicate something and then they go under rock. Communication is still really bad.

Philly79

I also want to point out another flaw with this new system. For me or anyone that regularly competes in shard 4 (11pm eastern start/ end time) this is completely ridiculous. So Lets say I start the event tonight at 11pm, with a 30 minute clear per for the sub that would put me around 2am - IF my scaling is not so horrible that I can actually clear the sub in 30 minutes that is. So if I were willing to do that (which I am not as I have a job and need to be awake at 6am) we fast forward to tomorrow night at 9pm, I start my grind and clear what I can - then do it all over again until 2am...I don't think so. If I understand the timing thing correctly that would be the way to do optimal clears. I suppose since I get home from work at 5 I could start then (shard 3) but that would screw up all remaining clears as I cannot focus on a grind in the last two hours. Sometimes I really wonder who comes up with this $h!t....

simonsez

Polares wrote:

In fact, why is it that there is no one single red today trying to adress our prblems with these changes?

They shot their communication load last night. Give 'em another day to recuperate...

Moon Roach

JVReal wrote:

What if they locked your roster on the different sets of nodes?

Traditionally there are a few Trivial nodes, a few Easy nodes, and then the Normal - Hard - Deadly nodes.

What if they locked out 3*-5* for Trivial, and you had to use your 2* characters. Then locked out 4*-5* on Easy. Then locked out 5* on Normal, and then full roster for Hard and up?

And the scaling for each section could be based on your roster of unlocked characters?

Interesting idea, but I can imagine how the algorithm would be implemented.

Initial check of node against full roster - it's trivial.
Check node against 2* roster - it's hard.
Check node against full roster - it's trivial.
Repeat last two steps forever.

Dragon_Nexus

Tarheelmax wrote:

Recommendation: Have two types of PVEs. The type you have been traditionally running, and one similar to the type you have now. For the type you are trying out here, Lock the nodes after a certain amount of times played (6-10) give back trivial nodes, remove incremental scaling (or greatly reduce) for essential nodes. Remove placement rewards and go to a progression only reward system. Make it a true PVE like gauntlet or Ultron/Galactus.

This I like.
Traditional PvP style competitive PvE using the old method, or a gauntlet style progression only PvE using the new method, but with capped clears. After X amount of clears, the node is worth 0 points.

That satisfies people who like one style over another. Plus it's a nicer way to gain 4* covers through progression rather than fighting tooth and claw for a top 10 spot.

action711

It's just too **** hard. And that's the first round!

And it's supposed to get harder? Brilliant. Do the rewards go up too? No? Again, brilliant.

I've recently gone off pvp cos it's getting too hard, 270+ every battle drains the tinykitty out of you, and now they do this to what was a relaxing game.


Why even do this? Has anyone complained about PvE? Did it need "fixing"?

No.

Don't do it D3.

firethorne

Also, trying to play a node over and over for the command point, and seeing that enemy level up screen while not getting the CP is an even bigger slap in the face than the old 20 ISO. At least 20 ISO is beneficial, albeit negligiblly.

You've put in something more annoying than 20 ISO, one of the most reviled features in the game's history. Who thought this was a good idea?

mpqr7

JVReal wrote:

What if they locked your roster on the different sets of nodes?

Traditionally there are a few Trivial nodes, a few Easy nodes, and then the Normal - Hard - Deadly nodes.

What if they locked out 3*-5* for Trivial, and you had to use your 2* characters. Then locked out 4*-5* on Easy. Then locked out 5* on Normal, and then full roster for Hard and up?

And the scaling for each section could be based on your roster of unlocked characters?

That would be similar to ddq. And it would be great. Make the nodes scale in relation to your actual available roster. Then people would need to hold onto a few good 2*s, 3*s, etc.

carrion_pigeons

They could make the final node with the CP *really* interestingly hard, but come with a guaranteed CP and then lock it. I wouldn't object to a design like that. Make it so there's an actual "boss fight" that you can only fight once, but you can grind the regular enemies ad infinitum.

Vhailorx

carrion pigeons wrote:

They could make the final node with the CP *really* interestingly hard, but come with a guaranteed CP and then lock it. I wouldn't object to a design like that. Make it so there's an actual "boss fight" that you can only fight once, but you can grind the regular enemies ad infinitum.

Whoa there, let's no go crazy! that sounds an awful lot like a proverbial 'running the gauntlet' style event where players could test their roster's mettle against increasingly challenging nodes until they finally achieved the maximum possible reward. It would be just the player versus the environment, without any player v. player competition at all. If only MPQ could implement such a system. . . But alas, it's impossible!

TLCstormz

Demiurge_Anthony wrote:

Nellyson wrote:

So question and hopefully you're still around, but does this mean that all the nodes start with the absolute lowest one at 195 for you? If so, I'm kinda sad cause now I can't use my level 70 and below characters anymore. I used to use them for the first 3 as I gained covers just to play test them for myself. Is this disappearing now?

For this event, yes. That doesn't mean it wont change though!

BUT WHAT SENSE DOES THIS MAKE, TO BEGIN WITH? Who in their right mind thought this was a good idea, in the first place?????

lol. I mean, really........

HaywireII

JVReal wrote:

What if they locked your roster on the different sets of nodes?

Traditionally there are a few Trivial nodes, a few Easy nodes, and then the Normal - Hard - Deadly nodes.

What if they locked out 3*-5* for Trivial, and you had to use your 2* characters. Then locked out 4*-5* on Easy. Then locked out 5* on Normal, and then full roster for Hard and up?

And the scaling for each section could be based on your roster of unlocked characters?

As a newer player I used the Trivial nodes to be able to play with my 3-5 cover 4* characters. Now I'm a little sad that they are going to be unusable for months to come.

Dauthi

Crowl wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

While I agree we should be getting more ISO, I prefer puzzle quest, not grind quest. Mindlessly destroying easy nodes was in no way a "puzzle" or fun, and hard gauntlet style nodes bring skill, strategy, and a full rosters into PVEs.

Getting some quick rewards as a break from being hammered by the rest of the game is actually fun, you could bring weird or different teams with synergies that wouldn't work on higher scaled nodes or just go for a side to blast through those as fast as possible without the need to go into your meager supply of health packs before hitting the harder nodes.

Fun is different for everyone, personally I don't find grinding fun. The previous easy nodes were good ISO, but I would literally watch tv while doing them. If they compensated us with equally scaled ISO this model would be by far better in regards to ISO gain / intended game model.

The idea that hard gauntletesque nodes bring in full rosters is pretty much a complete fallacy for probably the majority of people playing this game, hard nodes mandate better teams and boosted characters only for most.

I don't think this is completely true. The first few attempts should allow you to use lower tier characters, just in well made combos. They may barely come out of the encounter, but it will still save you a few healthpacks towards your top tiers.

Pylgrim wrote:

I think there's still a chance for this test to do well in the long term. If these measures indeed improve overall happiness of the more casual player (somewhere between 90% and 99% of the players in a bracket) at the cost of making the seekers of top 10 rewards miserable, it would be foolish to scrap them just to make happier the other 1%-10%. Then, the one thing to do is to rather scrap precisely what makes those players unhappy, that is those precious 4* covers given as rewards for placement, and give them as progression rewards instead. Or find other outlets to inject those very needed 4* covers, preferably in a higher rate than the current "16 for each 1000 players".

The top 10 is by far less than 1% of the community, if I were to venture a guess.

I can see how the sky is falling for them, but when the difficulty gets massively ramped up, it should reduce competition for those rewards. Less players will be willing/able to commit this much time/effort to the game which may reduce the current effort (eventually) to achieve the top 10. It would be similar to how competition drops off for 7 day PVE events, but on a much higher level. Like others have said, only time would tell though.

Warbringa

This scaling is terrible. I love the hypothetical idea of not having to be on an 8 hour schedule but other than that they made it so that now every node requires health packs due to the scaling. I will get far less in node rewards since I won't be able to clear nearly as many nodes due to the terrible scaling. Nice try, but no this won't do. In fact I would rather stick to the 8 hours refresh after considering it because now you need to play for hours upon hours straight to clear then allow refresh play again and then boom new sub event for hours and hours. That doesn't work, in fact it is way worse than the previous system.

Is softcapping really even a problem? I never see softcapped rosters rank high, maybe in noob brackets but that isn't really even softcapping if they are leveling up characters equally.

Edit: Btw, I will never hit progression either with this new system, way too difficult.

Edit 2: There was nothing fun about these nodes either David.

Lboogie

My turn..this is all based on my life and schedule...I understand and appreciate that others don't have the freedom to pve well.

I am on day 576 never missed a day or a pve event. I do not like this change 1 bit. I am a father and husband i work 8 to 430 everyday. The old style s2 worked great for me. Start at noon on lunch clear between 8 and 10 pm. Clear whenever I get up and a few more matches for cp or to squeak out t50 in the sub. New character are s4 and similar play style just later.

I am in a dual pve/pvp alliance and am skipping this event. The scaling is horrendous...I keep thinking of that last 6 wave node with 3 x gorgon yikes. So what if I bring my 279 hulkbuster against trivial goons...I pretend I'm godzilla lol. I don't see any way to play this optimal...and although I have the roster for 6 clears im gonna burn resources I need for pvp.

I vote keep pve the way it was...yeah it was annoying at times but new toon grinds are at a decrease it seems...I dont mind taking off the gloves and grinding like hell a few days outta the month...every other day it is a great source of much needed resources. 30 mins of play every 8 hours is not a huge strain for me.

As far as fun and challenging missions...not for me. After the end of the day with work and kids I don't want challenging. I like to swipe tiles while watching a marvel movie. If I want challenging Ill play Xbox again. Now what's worse is I have a ice man cover expiring in 11 days. With normal pve rewards I'd max him easily in that time. Skipping this event is gonna decrease my iso flow. Fingers crossed.

If this is the new pve style at the end of this test it will be the end of mpq for me. I like pvp but pve is where my heart is. It is how I unwind at the end of my day. ..and enjoy my coffee in the morning. Yes sometimes I have to clear when I dont want to...most often I want to play when I optimally cant...and that's not a bad thing in my opinion. Thank you for the awesome game...and I hope you listen very closely to us.

Daiches

So I tested it for one sub.

Here are my findings:

o_O





is it too late to pull the plug on this I'll-conceived idea? This is beyond the most horrible thing ever inflicted upon this game. Every node is torture.

"You are supposed to lose" has never rung more clearly in your design philosophy.

Have the developers forgotten this is a game you are supposed to play FOR FUN?

I don't understand how this abomination went through quality control. I can not imagine the person that would sign of on this saying, wow, I had great fun running my 4-5 useable characters through the wringer.

It may sound harsh, but this is my honest criticism. And by no means meant to troll or otherwise insult the developers. I actually can not comprehend how this implementation would improve customer experience.

SnowcaTT

It seems like most folks don't mind scaling - even extreme scaling - if it STARTED lower.

What if every node was "trivial" (way, way easier than currently) - but then each of those first seven times the difficulty increased by 20 levels instead of 10(ish)?

You could be playing level 20 through level 120 guys round one, and they would be level 160-260 when you get around to the end grind of them. Not tough enough? Increase by 25 levels each time, 195-295. Or 30 levels each time, or 40, 50....this could easily be adjusted in this test.

Sounds like this would solve lots of the issues out there:

Folks who want easy ISO for a few rounds could get it.
Folks who want shorter grinds would get it until they get past hitting the nodes the first five times.
The end tougher levels would still be a challenge for those who want the challenge.
The early levels wouldn't be so brutal for those who don't want that challenge.
Those end grinds on a harder difficulty would still determine placement (though no one seems to like that....)

Scaling from easy -> difficult (even very difficult) doesn't seem like it would offend. Scaling from difficult -> are you kidding?....that is what people seem to be having the problem with.

LegendReborn

Daiches wrote:

So I tested it for one sub.

Here are my findings:

o_O





is it too late to pull the plug on this I'll-conceived idea? This is beyond the most horrible thing ever inflicted upon this game. Every node is torture.

"You are supposed to lose" has never rung more clearly in your design philosophy.

Have the developers forgotten this is a game you are supposed to play FOR FUN?

I don't understand how this abomination went through quality control. I can not imagine the person that would sign of on this saying, wow, I had great fun running my 4-5 useable characters through the wringer.

It may sound harsh, but this is my honest criticism. And by no means meant to troll or otherwise insult the developers. I actually can not comprehend how this implementation would improve customer experience.

It honestly feels like there's a massive disconnect here. I don't understand how any of the PVE changes benefit the casual or the more hardcore player. If they want PVE to move toward more of a test of beating terribly scaled opponents, turn it into a progression only reward system without directly competing against other players dealing with their own version of terribly scaled opponents. It just seems like the devs are punishing players for wanting to play the game with this system. Yay, you let more casual players play whenever they want... against opponents that are super scaled and give the same mediocre rewards. At least previously the level of reward was acceptable because we didn't need to debate using health packs after the "easy" nodes.

I also intended on spending $100 next time there was a sale (not sure on what since I have a lot of HP) because of how they expanded 3* reward tiers and I thought it was great that they were making it more accessible for lower tier players (especially since those players are already essentially locked out of PVP 3* rewards). However, now I'm reminded that it seems that good decisions in MPQ feel more like throwing darts at a board. Sometimes they are really good and sometimes they hit the guy standing next to the board because the thrower is blindfolded.