Comic Sell Price Change Reasoning/Discussion

IceIX

Our server side patch today will make a change to Comic pricing. While the patch isn't quite out yet, I figured that starting the discussion slightly early couldn't hurt. After all, if for some reason we have to pull the patch till Monday it doesn't invalidate anything.

The change:

- Sell prices for Comics have been changed. Old -> New

- Common (1*): Same, 100 Iso-8/0 Hero Points - Uncommon (2*): 125/0 -> 250/0 - Rare (3*): 150/25 -> 500/0 - Legendary (4*): 200/50 -> 1000/0

- Added chance to gain 25 Hero Points from any Standard Comic Pack draw. This is currently set to about the same chance as pulling a 3* character.

What we intend the reward Comics to be are just that, rewards. They need to be something that players want to go for and even when they're given them through chance or another means and they end up less useful, something that feels nice to get. Right now, other than the Hero Points from 3*s, they're not. They don't give appreciable Iso-8, so when they're picked up they're just something to sigh at and toss away.

We completely understand that this will "kill off" wanting to gain and sell 3* characters for Hero Points. However, what was happening as a result is that the players that were able to place highly would get not only placement rewards but also pull another 1-2x that from covers that they didn't need in the first place. This would put them into a stronger position for the following Tournament, repeating ad nauseum. The rewards weren't the Comic Covers, they were the Hero Points masquerading as Comic Covers.

So what we've done is use this as an opportunity to kill three birds with one stone. We'll increase Iso-8 on Comic Cover sales. This makes the rewards more worthwhile because the rewards for 2*s+ are better. Getting a 2* character will be worth the lower Iso-8 reward from most PVE Event mission pins.

Secondly, it increases overall Iso-8 inflow for all players. For older players getting Heroic and Event tokens, this will greatly increase their income as they'll be selling the same number of Comic Covers as they did before but now gaining double or more Iso-8 from each of them. For newer players, they'll get a nice little bump whenever they run into a cover that they've maxed out the color on. This isn't mean that with this one change we think that Iso-8 flow will be perfect. We'll continue to look at things and optimize as necessary.

Thirdly, the change makes it so that *everyone* gains Hero Points from events, be they PVP or PVE, not just the people that place top in Tournaments. Yes, it's only a chance to gain Hero Points from a Comic Pack. But every player can and does gain Standard Tokens from every Event, with those players that play more gaining more tokens. We've set the rate of Hero Point drops in the Standard Packs to equate to the overall outflow via Comic Cover selling that we experience during Events, so we're expecting the same amount of Hero Points to be going out to players via this change.

Overall, players that are placing highly in every Tournament and selling their Comic Covers each time will very likely be gaining less Hero Points per event that they run unless their luck with pulls are insane. PVP events moreso than PVE Events, since those players tend to also be those that farm out rewards from each mission pin, so they'll be gaining more Standard tokens in PVE Events. Players that can't quite reach the big leagues in Tournaments will see an uptick in their Hero Point gains, since even though they can't grab 3*s easily, they'll still be getting Standard tokens through their placements which has a chance of giving a boost. Overall, we see the change as providing a better experience across all our playerbase as a result.

Edit: Updated title to specify that it's a change to sell prices, not Comic Pack prices in general.

Unknown

It's long overdue.

It was becoming a bit annoying at all the max-leveled users who were getting (villain) lightning round rewards simply to cash in the covers for HP. Although a small few were actually building second characters.

Added chance to gain 25 Hero Points from any Standard Comic Pack draw. This is currently set to about the same chance as pulling a 3* character.

Not sure how I feel about this. Some of my best pulls have been from Standard comic packs. It would be pretty annoying if my 3* cover I could've used was 'replaced' by a 25HP reward.

mouser

Overall seem like good balance changes to me.

Question on the 25HP Standard pull. Has the chance for a 3* cover been decreased with this addition? Or does the 3* cover % remain the same and the 25HP reward comes out of either the 1* or 2* probabilities?

Unknown

Sell price changes seem like the right thing to do. Jury's out on the 25 HP chance from Standards

mischiefmaker

Looks pretty nice for everyone. Low-mid levels get a big win: hero points available via tokens, plus possibly slightly less competition for top spots. High levels get a bit fewer hero points, but I'm guessing most of those players are constrained by iso instead of hero points, so a win for them too, especially as many of them have been hoarding standard tokens.

I'm having trouble thinking of a player type who wouldn't benefit from this change. Maybe a mid-level player who's already made the transition to 3*s, who has some covers maxed but not all, is diversifying her roster, and is starting to hoard hero points to use to level up 3* skills?

aussiemac

As far as PvP goes, any chance HP progression rewards go up? Or HP rewards for a top 15 finish go up? IIRC it used to be 100 and 500 progression rewards would get HP in PvP. Now it's just 500 and 1000 which is practically impossible. It'd be great if those progression rewards got bumped up to 100!

Also, when you say the HP odds will be the same as pulling a 3* character, is that the odds for pulling a 3* from the standard deck? Do those odds change out of a 2** deck?

MaxCavalera

Yeah i hope its not in replacement of 3* drops but in addition in standard packs. Sounds like redistribution of wealth down with 1%!

TheVulture

Excellent stuff.

The 25 HP standard cover should be a big help for new players seeking character slots.

aussiemac

mischiefmaker wrote:

Looks pretty nice for everyone. Low-mid levels get a big win: hero points available via tokens, plus possibly slightly less competition for top spots. High levels get a bit fewer hero points, but I'm guessing most of those players are constrained by iso instead of hero points, so a win for them too, especially as many of them have been hoarding standard tokens.

I'm having trouble thinking of a player type who wouldn't benefit from this change. Maybe a mid-level player who's already made the transition to 3*s, who has some covers maxed but not all, is diversifying her roster, and is starting to hoard hero points to use to level up 3* skills?

What is the advantage to hoarding standard tokens?

Unknown

It seems like it could be taken either way. Either the chance for a 3* stays the same or it decreases due to the new HP being added to the mix. I think it is the former rather than the latter though. Decreasing already low odds for good stuff that we actually want hardly seems like something they'd do if they want to keep us happy.

mischiefmaker

If you've been hoarding standard tokens, it's usually because there aren't any covers you want and/or you're waiting for new characters to get added. That means you're ISO constrained; therefore this change is good for you because you get more ISO per cover opened, once you eventually decide to open them.

Unknown

aussiemac wrote:

mischiefmaker wrote:

Looks pretty nice for everyone. Low-mid levels get a big win: hero points available via tokens, plus possibly slightly less competition for top spots. High levels get a bit fewer hero points, but I'm guessing most of those players are constrained by iso instead of hero points, so a win for them too, especially as many of them have been hoarding standard tokens.

I'm having trouble thinking of a player type who wouldn't benefit from this change. Maybe a mid-level player who's already made the transition to 3*s, who has some covers maxed but not all, is diversifying her roster, and is starting to hoard hero points to use to level up 3* skills?

What is the advantage to hoarding standard tokens?

You have a better chance at pulling a 2* plus.

Unknown

TheVulture wrote:

Excellent stuff.

The 25 HP standard cover should be a big help for new players seeking character slots.

Big help? Aside from the palty amount (that represents about 10% of the cost of cover slot at some point), you will have to pull about 60-80 tokens to even realistically land one.

jojeda654

aussiemac wrote:

What is the advantage to hoarding standard tokens?

They could spontaneously transmute into heroics!
See: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4019

IceIX

mouser wrote:

Overall seem like good balance changes to me.

Question on the 25HP Standard pull. Has the chance for a 3* cover been decreased with this addition? Or does the 3* cover % remain the same and the 25HP reward comes out of either the 1* or 2* probabilities?

A bit of each, which means that more of a chunk of that percentage was taken from the more common rarities.

TheVulture

Forgot to say: thanks for telling us before the weekend, IceIX - I'll be hoarding them all!

Unknown

Well, how much is a bit? Numbers would facilitate this discussion measurably.

IceIX

TheVulture wrote:

Forgot to say: thanks for telling us before the weekend, IceIX - I'll be hoarding them all!

Well, to be fair, this is the kind of "big change" that we'd like to start telling you all earlier than this. The reason we didn't is because of exactly that: You'd all hoard tokens until the change for that much longer.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

mouser wrote:

Overall seem like good balance changes to me.

Question on the 25HP Standard pull. Has the chance for a 3* cover been decreased with this addition? Or does the 3* cover % remain the same and the 25HP reward comes out of either the 1* or 2* probabilities?

A bit of each, which means that more of a chunk of that percentage was taken from the more common rarities.

Ok, all of that chunk should've been taken from the one star probability. The other stuff is good though. I anyone who can afford to sell 3 and 4* shouldn't complain about the loss of hp (glad to see no one has), and the double sale price of those thousands of cap covers is awesome.

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

TheVulture wrote:

Excellent stuff.

The 25 HP standard cover should be a big help for new players seeking character slots.

Big help? Aside from the palty amount (that represents about 10% of the cost of cover slot at some point), you will have to pull about 60-80 tokens to even realistically land one.

From infinity to 60-80 could be considered a 'big' decrease.

Now just let me gift my covers to my Allies and it will be great!

Unknown

Nice change though I'll miss the HP I would get whenever I got a 3* cover I already had, whether it be from tournament or pack pulls.

Wish I hadn't burned through so many standard tokens this week though