Pre-Release (v1.3) Notes (1/29/16)

Unknown

So Rewards dictate position in the Leaderboard? So there is less incentive to increase PW level because it better guarantees matches against higher-level, weak-AI opponents?

I know I'm being very vocal, but I am also one of the users that was urging patience to everyone awaiting a fix to everything else.

Unknown

kore wrote:

pandabear wrote:

Heyo I played a few games.

Here is what I noticed.

Harbinger is still an instant win. There is no way to come back from having your biggest creature bounced and effectively unable to be cast, ever.

With current mana costs and average creature costs of 10-12 this is a 8 point mana swing and a free 4/4.

I immediately forfeit any game with a harbinger out.

Blues mana generation is way too good. 2/1/1 is insane. He also has the fastest deck out there, even with the nerfs, the only deck that is reasonable to be sub

pandabear, would you elaborate on the Blue deck (specific cards) to which you're referring? I find that the slower rate of damage mitigation via bounce or disable (greater mana costs and limitations) doesn't allow Blue to bring its far weaker creatures, with respect to damage cabability, online before the opponent overwhelms. Without direct damage, damage mitigation is the name of Blue's game. Sure, I could put in some Colorless damage support, but then I'm not playing Blue support.

You can have a deck with like, harbinger, runewarden owl, mizzium, djinn at 10+.

Then sanctum tutelage and 4 low cost spells that can trip. U win whenever one creature, any creature is out. U could also put in sanctum animists and helm of gods. Again any creature is win

Hibernum_JC

kore wrote:

So Rewards dictate position in the Leaderboard? So there is less incentive to increase PW level because it better guarantees matches against higher-level, weak-AI opponents?

I know I'm being very vocal, but I am also one of the users that was urging patience to everyone awaiting a fix to everything else.

Just as a FYI - there's nothing wrong with being vocal. I'd rather vocal people that I can get feedback from than completely silent players where it's very hard to pick their brains

As for the leaderboard rewards, we're aware of the problem. We plan to fix it in our next minor patch!

loroku

kore wrote:

So Rewards dictate position in the Leaderboard? So there is less incentive to increase PW level because it better guarantees matches against higher-level, weak-AI opponents?

Position in leaderboards dictate rewards. Maybe that's what you meant?

Cupcaking your account (intentionally under-leveling) has been a very strong tactic in Marvel PQ since the beginning. I'm not sure how they handle MMR in this game yet, so I don't think anyone knows yet if it's a good idea here. I'm also not sure how much planeswalker level (or the sum/average of all your planeswalker levels) affects anything, either.

Again, using MPQ as an example, their PvPs took in "shards" of 500 players at a time, and your shard was the most important thing to determine your chance to win (if no one else was really powerful or trying, you had a great chance). Which shard you got placed in depended on start time and your MMR. I'm assuming the same is true here until we know otherwise.

Unknown

YOU CAN DISCARD CARDS NOW NOONE TOLD ME!

I don't even care about anything else now. This changes everything.

Nerf everything I play to the ground idc, we can finally utilize card draw!

Unknown

loroku wrote:

kore wrote:

So Rewards dictate position in the Leaderboard? So there is less incentive to increase PW level because it better guarantees matches against higher-level, weak-AI opponents?

Position in leaderboards dictate rewards. Maybe that's what you meant?

Cupcaking your account (intentionally under-leveling) has been a very strong tactic in Marvel PQ since the beginning. I'm not sure how they handle MMR in this game yet, so I don't think anyone knows yet if it's a good idea here. I'm also not sure how much planeswalker level (or the sum/average of all your planeswalker levels) affects anything, either.

As one's Rewards accumulate so does one's position in the LB. Thus, maximizing the number of Rewards one earns per match leads to rising in the LB faster. I've never played MPQ, but in MtGPQ (as of this moment) the disparity between one's level and their opponent's level dictates the potential Rewards earned. It works as follows:

AI PW is 1 level above (or fewer) Player PW level: earn 50 Runes and 1 Reward on a win.
AI PW is 2 levels above Player PW level: earn 100 Runes and 2 Rewards on a win.
AI PW is 3 levels above Player PW level: earn 150 Runes and 3 Rewards on a win.
AI PW is 4 levels above Player PW level: earn 200 Runes and 4 Rewards on a win.
AI PW is 5 levels above (or more) Player PW level: earn 250 Runes and 5 Rewards on a win.

Thus, if I play a low-level PW with decent cards and/or PW abilities I will be matched with everyone else's higher-level decks, maximizing Reward potential. But if I'm high-level, or even mid-level, the pool of decks with levels lower than mine means lower Rewards-earning potential.

BlackSheep101

Yeah, that kind of snuck in there as a silent buff to a bunch of cards.

Unknown

This is my Leaderboard:
1. 62 R
2. 27 R
3. 24 R
4. 24 R
5. 19 R
6. 19 R
7. 18 R
8. 18 R
9. 17 R

Yeah, something is wrong.

Hibernum_JC

pandabear wrote:

YOU CAN DISCARD CARDS NOW NOONE TOLD ME!

I don't even care about anything else now. This changes everything.

Nerf everything I play to the ground idc, we can finally utilize card draw!

Yeah, that snuck in as a little thing we forgot to mention in patch notes. It's pretty big, too

Unknown

Hibernum_JC wrote:

pandabear wrote:

YOU CAN DISCARD CARDS NOW NOONE TOLD ME!

I don't even care about anything else now. This changes everything.

Nerf everything I play to the ground idc, we can finally utilize card draw!

Yeah, that snuck in as a little thing we forgot to mention in patch notes. It's pretty big, too

Yes, this is much appreciated.

loroku

kore wrote:

As one's Rewards accumulate so does one's position in the LB. Thus, maximizing the number of Rewards one earns per match leads to rising in the LB faster. I've never played MPQ, but in MtGPQ (as of this moment) the disparity between one's level and their opponent's level dictates the potential Rewards earned.
...
Thus, if I play a low-level PW with decent cards and/or PW abilities I will be matched with everyone else's higher-level decks, maximizing Reward potential. But if I'm high-level, or even mid-level, the pool of decks with levels lower than mine means lower Rewards-earning potential.

I guess the idea is that you're taking on harder opponents and thus you're going to lose more? Hmm. But on the other hand, losing does nothing. (And defensive losses do nothing, from all I can tell.) And cards > level by a mile. So it's technically better to be a lower PW level, so that your rewards can be earned more quickly.

So yeah I guess a lower level PW is better then? Or there's more to all this we don't yet understand.

Unknown

loroku wrote:

kore wrote:

As one's Rewards accumulate so does one's position in the LB. Thus, maximizing the number of Rewards one earns per match leads to rising in the LB faster. I've never played MPQ, but in MtGPQ (as of this moment) the disparity between one's level and their opponent's level dictates the potential Rewards earned.
...
Thus, if I play a low-level PW with decent cards and/or PW abilities I will be matched with everyone else's higher-level decks, maximizing Reward potential. But if I'm high-level, or even mid-level, the pool of decks with levels lower than mine means lower Rewards-earning potential.

I guess the idea is that you're taking on harder opponents and thus you're going to lose more? Hmm. But on the other hand, losing does nothing. (And defensive losses do nothing, from all I can tell.) And cards > level by a mile. So it's technically better to be a lower PW level, so that your rewards can be earned more quickly.

So yeah I guess a lower level PW is better then? Or there's more to all this we don't yet understand.

That seems to be the sum of it, yes.

EDHdad

I love the ability to discard. It allows me to put situational cards in the deck and not worry about them clogging up my hand. Thank you!

The challenges are extremely frustrating, at least at first glance. With some of them, a level 50 Planeswalker is starting the game with like 100 mana's worth of mythics already in play, which combo perfectly with one another to produce a game-winning lock. At first glance, they really seem unfair and possibly unfun.

But I do really appreciate a lot of the changes. Thanks!

Oberoni

Super-good idea: Let's try playing for a few days before weighing in with strong opinions. In cases like this, I don't care much for theory.

Unknown

Oberoni wrote:

Super-good idea: Let's try playing for a few days before weighing in with strong opinions. In cases like this, I don't care much for theory.

Snark is all well and good, but the Leaderboard scoring is obviously broken; it's obscene, really.

1. 103
2. 54
3. 45
4. 40
5. 39
6. 35

And bounce mechanics suck.

Unknown

Hibernum_JC wrote:

kore wrote:

So Rewards dictate position in the Leaderboard? So there is less incentive to increase PW level because it better guarantees matches against higher-level, weak-AI opponents?

I know I'm being very vocal, but I am also one of the users that was urging patience to everyone awaiting a fix to everything else.

Just as a FYI - there's nothing wrong with being vocal. I'd rather vocal people that I can get feedback from than completely silent players where it's very hard to pick their brains

As for the leaderboard rewards, we're aware of the problem. We plan to fix it in our next minor patch!

I wonder how this problem will be addressed and fixed. Even if they go to a reward system based off only wins, higher level Planewalkers will still be at a disadvantage, having to take longer playing because of higher health while the lower level Planewalkers will have quicker battles with lower health.
This is coming from someone who has all maxed out Planewalkers. I simply can't compete for rewards in quick battle

EDHdad

I'm warming up to the new challenges. They are doable with enough ramp, removal and luck. However, some of the "take less than x damage" or "win in y turns or less" aspects still seem unreasonable. I will say that it's quite a kick when they pay off something like 1750 runes, so there's that.

As for the Quick Battle, I agree that it seems to reward playing strong cards with a Nerfed planeswalker. It also dis-incentivizes one to level up their planeswalkers, which kind of defeats the purpose of the game.

There isn't really a huge difference between beating a level 20 Nissa who's playing Caustic Caterpillar and beating a level 25 Nissa playing a Caustic Caterpillar. But one might pay 50 and the other might pay 250.

I'd suggest giving higher rewards to decks with higher win percentages. Say a deck (or a certain player's decks) are in the bottom 20% in terms of win percentage. You could give 50 points for beating that deck. If they're in 21st to 40th percentile, you could give 100 points. Then 150 points for the 41st to 60th percentile, 200 points for the 61st to 80th percentile and 250 points for the 81st to 100th percentile.

Anyway, it's just a thought. If I'd known that you could game the system earlier, I would have kept one of my planeswalkers at a very low level and I'd be cleaning up right about now.

Unknown

I'm with Kore. Hoping this gets patched before next week when we compete for the red card.

halcyanide

After playing with the new changes, I gotta agree that Gideon is severely crippled. Between the change to the number of hits on a support to his planeswalker abilities, he is just frustrating to play now. And he was the only one I leveled. But, I guess that's a semi-good thing, considering the state of quick play...

Other things of note:

Its nice that they fixed the bug with the speed objectives, but they are still too fast. Beating them by turn 7 is nearly impossible, and it doesn't feel good when your only chance of winning is whether or not you get a really lucky cascade. You may as well as make a roulette wheel game. Whats the point of Defender vs Vigilance? Why don't they make it so defenders can't attack? I'd assume it has something to do with slowing down the game too much, but would it really? As it stands currently, I'm not sure why you would want one ability over the other. While on the topic, defender seems overcosted. Jace's first ability is too powerful. -6/0 for 3 is backbreaking. As someone mentioned earlier, the health pools are much higher here than in paper much and so control dominates. This ability further facilitates that. Give aggro a chance. You shouldn't feel punished for leveling up your plainswalker. If you can't keep the abilities balanced without increasing their costs, then at least have their costs start off at the maximum level, that way it doesn't feel like you're losing out when your ability gets upgraded. There shouldn't be strictly better versions of cards like Exquististe Firecraft vs Lightning Javelin. I know that they want rares and mythics to be better and improve your deck, but having them like this just doesn't feel right. At least make Lightning Javelin cost 5 or something so that they can fill slightly different roles. Knight of the White Orchid was OP. Now he is lame. The card he is based on is a 2/2, why isn't the PQ version? I get that D3 is trying to forge their own game independent of Wizards, but why are they ignoring so much of the source material? Most of the people here are probably here because of the paper game, it would make sense to stick to what wizards has already established. KotWO could be a 6-8 cost 2/2 first strike with the mana ability and be fine and still reflective of the card he's based on. Speaking of source material, Gideon doesn't feel very... Gideon-y. The paper card he's based on always has the ability to turn into a creature to attack. Additionally, half of them have some form of forcing an enemy creature to attack or destroying creatures. I'm not sure how to translate those abilities into Puzzle Quest form, but as it stands, he's incredibly boring: Should I permanently buff my creature, or should I permanently buff my creature? And the buffs aren't very white at all, Regenerate and Berserker? I figured he would at least have the ability of the card his art is based on "Target creature gets vigilance and prevent all damage that would be dealt to it until your next turn." Then you might have to choose between a temporary buff and a permanent one.

Anyways, just my thoughts on it.

P.S. Ever since the update I've been crashing much more frequently. Anyone else having this problem?
P.P.S. Stupid Forum ate my long post. I can't believe I had to type this all out twice, D3

Unknown

Some good changes, some terrible. Blue is in a terrible spot, Jace's Sanctum at 9 mana with 1 shield seems pretty pointless, and the new bounce mechanic now means that blue's mana denial works against it. Guess it's time to play green instead.