*** Black Panther (T'Challa) ***

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Comments

  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think his black power is still a very good, the problem is with the other two. Yellow is too expensive, you need to match two different types of tiles, and it consumes both of them and you create a very small amount of strike tiles (usually just one). Blue is not that bad, but there are a lot of blue abilites better than this one.

    I have been using a 3/3/3 Panther in the Hulk event and the only power I trigger is black, the other two are useless (I use him with Punisher/Patch and Spidey). Devs have to buff a little bit the other two powers.
  • Polares wrote:
    I think his black power is still a very good, the problem is with the other two. Yellow is too expensive, you need to match two different types of tiles, and it consumes both of them and you create a very small amount of strike tiles (usually just one). Blue is not that bad, but there are a lot of blue abilites better than this one.

    I have been using a 3/3/3 Panther in the Hulk event and the only power I trigger is black, the other two are useless (I use him with Punisher/Patch and Spidey). Devs have to buff a little bit the other two powers.

    I tried the blue exactly once (my OBW went down icon_e_smile.gif and it didn't look bad at all -- though it was in Hulk where BP is insanely buffed. Filled the board with shields really fast. Can't recall ever playing BP without another blue user that keeps it on the bench.
  • Phantron wrote:
    There's nothing harder about getting 12 black compared to any other color.
    That's not true. Green, red, and blue have pretty decent AP generating skills associated with them.
  • Phantron wrote:
    There's nothing harder about getting 12 black compared to any other color.
    That's not true. Green, red, and blue have pretty decent AP generating skills associated with them.

    Doctor Doom says hello.
  • Phantron wrote:
    There's nothing harder about getting 12 black compared to any other color.
    That's not true. Green, red, and blue have pretty decent AP generating skills associated with them.

    Doctor Doom says hello.

    Very true, though I don't think many people would run Doom with Panther unless you think you can generate enough black to use both powers at once.
  • Phantron wrote:
    There's nothing harder about getting 12 black compared to any other color.
    That's not true. Green, red, and blue have pretty decent AP generating skills associated with them.

    Doctor Doom says hello.
    Better than green, red, and blue generators? I don't know about that. Maybe on par with red, but nowhere near green.
  • DaveyPitch wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    There's nothing harder about getting 12 black compared to any other color.
    That's not true. Green, red, and blue have pretty decent AP generating skills associated with them.

    Doctor Doom says hello.

    Very true, though I don't think many people would run Doom with Panther unless you think you can generate enough black to use both powers at once.

    I've just now got my Panther to high levels, so I haven't had the chance to experiment much, but I'd be inclined to make Doom a decent part of my rotation right now, as if one of them gets nuked or stunned, you still have a powerful use for all the black AP you've been collecting. Doom is also strong in Purple, which is a rarity. Once he gets a third skill this will be a no-brainer, but for now, I agree, it's more of a Loki/Patch type of matchup.
    Better than green, red, and blue generators? I don't know about that. Maybe on par with red, but nowhere near green.

    Totally agree about green AP being easier to generate. That's also why I think good green skills tend to have a higher AP cost associated with them, or a significant drawback. Sniper rifle is way more expensive, Call the Storm does less total damage (3* Thor's may be comparable, but is also more expensive), and Berzerker Rage gives enemy strike tiles. I think it's a pretty balanced approach right now.
  • I've just now got my Panther to high levels, so I haven't had the chance to experiment much, but I'd be inclined to make Doom a decent part of my rotation right now, as if one of them gets nuked or stunned, you still have a powerful use for all the black AP you've been collecting. Doom is also strong in Purple, which is a rarity. Once he gets a third skill this will be a no-brainer, but for now, I agree, it's more of a Loki/Patch type of matchup.

    To me it sounds much better. Doom has a ton of HP and the demons are nothing to joke with. dodging stunlock too. Loki looks way less useful and goes down in no time on defense.
  • Green is only fast because of Oasis. The guys who can generate green generally aren't very competitive outside of GSBW who has her own problems (like being virtually useless on defense). Dr. Doom is at least usable on the high end, though since Summon Demons is tied with Rage of the Panther in cost it means you have no guaranteed on which ability you get.

    BP's blue can easily prevent more damage than what Anti-Grav heals for in all but the highest offense team and even then he has rather good synergy with Patch. People who think BP's yellow sucks need to examine what good yellow abilities are on the high end. There's literally none. Web Bandages is a victory lap ability, as in it's something you use the game's already over. It's almost never useful in any other context. The point is that if you accidentally got a bunch of environmental AP on city, now you can get a few strike tiles instead of getting hot dogs. Right now yellow is pretty much a completely dead color and even a weak ability on yellow is strong. Stop treating yellow abilities like they should be on par with red or green. They're clearly not.
  • PorkBelly
    PorkBelly Posts: 522 Critical Contributor
    Phantron wrote:
    Green is only fast because of Oasis. The guys who can generate green generally aren't very competitive outside of GSBW who has her own problems (like being virtually useless on defense). Dr. Doom is at least usable on the high end, though since Summon Demons is tied with Rage of the Panther in cost it means you have no guaranteed on which ability you get.

    BP's blue can easily prevent more damage than what Anti-Grav heals for in all but the highest offense team and even then he has rather good synergy with Patch. People who think BP's yellow sucks need to examine what good yellow abilities are on the high end. There's literally none. Web Bandages is a victory lap ability, as in it's something you use the game's already over. It's almost never useful in any other context. The point is that if you accidentally got a bunch of environmental AP on city, now you can get a few strike tiles instead of getting hot dogs. Right now yellow is pretty much a completely dead color and even a weak ability on yellow is strong. Stop treating yellow abilities like they should be on par with red or green. They're clearly not.

    The new Thor might remedy this for *** characters.

    Ares is pretty good for the ** class.
  • PorkBelly wrote:
    The new Thor might remedy this for *** characters.

    Ares is pretty good for the ** class.

    Probably, but currently yellow is so weak that getting anything out of yellow is a huge plus.
  • Phantron wrote:
    Green is only fast because of Oasis. The guys who can generate green generally aren't very competitive outside of GSBW who has her own problems (like being virtually useless on defense). Dr. Doom is at least usable on the high end, though since Summon Demons is tied with Rage of the Panther in cost it means you have no guaranteed on which ability you get.

    BP's blue can easily prevent more damage than what Anti-Grav heals for in all but the highest offense team and even then he has rather good synergy with Patch. People who think BP's yellow sucks need to examine what good yellow abilities are on the high end. There's literally none. Web Bandages is a victory lap ability, as in it's something you use the game's already over. It's almost never useful in any other context. The point is that if you accidentally got a bunch of environmental AP on city, now you can get a few strike tiles instead of getting hot dogs. Right now yellow is pretty much a completely dead color and even a weak ability on yellow is strong. Stop treating yellow abilities like they should be on par with red or green. They're clearly not.

    Then lets compare support ability to support ability. If you want 2 strike tiles you need 30 Enviro AP. Even at 12 a hit from Panther that's 3 matches. Then 3 more for yellow. So 6 matches later you can get 2 153 strike tiles, with nothing else to show for it. Meanwhile max level Daken matches 6 greens for 12 strength 38 tiles AND 18 green AP, that's 50% more strike strength approximately and some AP. Plus they get out faster to take effect longer. Granted they are vulnerable but still, Panther's yellow ability is not third tier. Needs Improvement.

    Psylock, in the 6 matches it takes Panther to get his 2 strike tiles can get 3 attack tiles doing 231 each plus deal 2895 damage. I know Panther is a tank and Pyslock is a striker but still.

    First of all, it should be 1 plus 1 per 15 AP, so every 15 gives you an extra tile and not having to get to 30 to get the first extra. Second, either Panther needs his match for Enviro bumped to 5, or it should really be every 12 gives an extra instead of 15. Or possibly at least have it's cost reduced as you level. Right now it's basically 1 strike tile for 3 yellow matches, which is pretty bad. Really tho, the 1 +1 per 15 is the most important. Without that my Panther is going into cold storage until the next event he is buffed in.

    Modern Thor blows him out of the water for a yellow ability, so the argument that any yellow ability is good to have at *** is not a great argument.
  • Puritas
    Puritas Posts: 670 Critical Contributor
    Phantron wrote:
    Right now yellow is pretty much a completely dead color and even a weak ability on yellow is strong. Stop treating yellow abilities like they should be on par with red or green. They're clearly not.

    Twin revolvers say hi
    Also *** Thor as mentioned
  • I think IceIX mentioned yellow will get a fix eventually and its current work is not completely as intended just tolerated.

    However in general the top HP guy shall not walk with 3 excellent abilities, the killer black (somewhat balanced by the harder color) with two by the way ones looks still fair balance. So the yellow does not shoot for improvement beyond the 1+ fix.

    Also I expect his main use case not to pick enviros actively, just use whatever comes by. While on defense compensates the AI's eagerness for them.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lerysh wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    Green is only fast because of Oasis. The guys who can generate green generally aren't very competitive outside of GSBW who has her own problems (like being virtually useless on defense). Dr. Doom is at least usable on the high end, though since Summon Demons is tied with Rage of the Panther in cost it means you have no guaranteed on which ability you get.

    BP's blue can easily prevent more damage than what Anti-Grav heals for in all but the highest offense team and even then he has rather good synergy with Patch. People who think BP's yellow sucks need to examine what good yellow abilities are on the high end. There's literally none. Web Bandages is a victory lap ability, as in it's something you use the game's already over. It's almost never useful in any other context. The point is that if you accidentally got a bunch of environmental AP on city, now you can get a few strike tiles instead of getting hot dogs. Right now yellow is pretty much a completely dead color and even a weak ability on yellow is strong. Stop treating yellow abilities like they should be on par with red or green. They're clearly not.

    Then lets compare support ability to support ability. If you want 2 strike tiles you need 30 Enviro AP. Even at 12 a hit from Panther that's 3 matches. Then 3 more for yellow. So 6 matches later you can get 2 153 strike tiles, with nothing else to show for it. Meanwhile max level Daken matches 6 greens for 12 strength 38 tiles AND 18 green AP, that's 50% more strike strength approximately and some AP. Plus they get out faster to take effect longer. Granted they are vulnerable but still, Panther's yellow ability is not third tier. Needs Improvement.

    Psylock, in the 6 matches it takes Panther to get his 2 strike tiles can get 3 attack tiles doing 231 each plus deal 2895 damage. I know Panther is a tank and Pyslock is a striker but still.

    First of all, it should be 1 plus 1 per 15 AP, so every 15 gives you an extra tile and not having to get to 30 to get the first extra. Second, either Panther needs his match for Enviro bumped to 5, or it should really be every 12 gives an extra instead of 15. Or possibly at least have it's cost reduced as you level. Right now it's basically 1 strike tile for 3 yellow matches, which is pretty bad. Really tho, the 1 +1 per 15 is the most important. Without that my Panther is going into cold storage until the next event he is buffed in.

    Modern Thor blows him out of the water for a yellow ability, so the argument that any yellow ability is good to have at *** is not a great argument.

    One comparison you didn't mention was against Punisher's green. 2 BP tiles = 3 Punisher tiles, and the Punisher tiles are already incredibly powerful, so I think the yellow will end up being powerful if he receives the buff to 1 + 1/15.
  • Puritas
    Puritas Posts: 670 Critical Contributor
    Yeah, the 1+ change to yellow (and maybe1-2 less ap on blue) would be enough to get BP a slot on my a team.
    As it is though, I'd rather just take gsbw
  • pasa_ wrote:
    I think IceIX mentioned yellow will get a fix eventually and its current work is not completely as intended just tolerated.

    However in general the top HP guy shall not walk with 3 excellent abilities, the killer black (somewhat balanced by the harder color) with two by the way ones looks still fair balance. So the yellow does not shoot for improvement beyond the 1+ fix.

    Also I expect his main use case not to pick enviros actively, just use whatever comes by. While on defense compensates the AI's eagerness for them.
    Really? I thought he said it was working as designed and they would possibly take a look at it in the future?
  • gobstopper wrote:
    pasa_ wrote:
    I think IceIX mentioned yellow will get a fix eventually and its current work is not completely as intended just tolerated.

    Really? I thought he said it was working as designed and they would possibly take a look at it in the future?

    That was my understanding. Indeed he started with saying it's by design but eventually it read more like overlook. I may be falling to wishful thinking. icon_e_smile.gif
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
    Puritas wrote:
    Yeah, the 1+ change to yellow (and maybe1-2 less ap on blue) would be enough to get BP a slot on my a team.
    As it is though, I'd rather just take gsbw

    Yeah me too. But I think IceIX said that his yellow will stay as is when they nerfed black, so for now I am going to wait until I got the 3* Thor because he will probably be better all around (I think his yellow and green powers will be very powerfull and he will have a ton of HP).

    Killing a team with a 141 Hulk, Thor 3* and BP or IM40 is going to take reeeeeally long icon_razz.gif
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    After last weekend's alliance event I finally have some of Panther's colors up to lvl 3 and I don't want to take any of them any further until I get a better idea of an optimal build. Is there any kind of consensus on this yet?