*** Black Panther (T'Challa) ***

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  • Puritas
    Puritas Posts: 670 Critical Contributor
    eidehua wrote:
    locked wrote:
    ^ italics, not italian
    sorry for being a nitpicker
    Maybe he's talking about localization issues

    I lold so hard
  • So now that BP has been fixed, I actually think that 5/3/5 has a ton of merit. 3 yellow -> 5 yellow is a 43% increase in strike tile efficiency, going from 100 to 150ish. 3 blue -> 5 blue is a 28% increase in tile strength, plus being able to place down 1 extra tile. Going from 4 max tiles to 5 max tiles seems pretty marginal due to how incredibly unlikely it is to actually have 4 tiles on board + the defense grid tile to make 5 tiles. This means that the generator has to be alive for at least 10 turns and none of the defense tiles were destroyed, which seems extremely unlikely in practice. Yellow, on the other hand, is sort of like upgrading Punisher green from 3->5 in that your 2 yellow tiles gets a boost from 200 to 300 strength total.

    The yellow versus blue should be broken down into an offense/defense issue.

    On offense you're probably not trying to match a ton of environmental tiles only to convert it to strike tiles, since Oasis/Thorned Rose is far superior if you plan to match a lot of environmental tiles, and at least one of these environment has always been available in PvP. So here blue > yellow unless you for some reason decided to keep on match environmental tiles in city.

    On defense, the AI loves to match environmental tiles for you, and I'm assuming any attacker that doesn't plan on making use of enviornmental tiles will attack you on city/lab to take advantage the AI's propensity to match environmental tiles. Obviously, getting 3 strike tiles is much better than having some hot dogs and could make a significant difference.

    Of course, you'd lose this advantage if the attacker plans around environmental tiles (most notably would be Modern Storm), since they'd be trying to get it first and would be playing on a strong enviornmental map, where you don't want to convert. However there are only two characters I can think of that is extermely strong on environmental: Modern Storm and Magneto (simply because he can make crits out of thin air repeatedly).

    I'd say on City, yellow > blue because you need 50 EP (I think?) to get hotdogs, so you've a pretty good chance to get 3 strike tiles instead. In lab, you only need 40 EP so your chance of getting good strike tiles are lower. So the question is how often do you expect to be attacked in city. There's no way for the player to know this as far as I can tell, but it seems to be a safe assumption that players would prefer to attack you on city over other maps in general.
  • Phantron wrote:
    So now that BP has been fixed, I actually think that 5/3/5 has a ton of merit. 3 yellow -> 5 yellow is a 43% increase in strike tile efficiency, going from 100 to 150ish. 3 blue -> 5 blue is a 28% increase in tile strength, plus being able to place down 1 extra tile. Going from 4 max tiles to 5 max tiles seems pretty marginal due to how incredibly unlikely it is to actually have 4 tiles on board + the defense grid tile to make 5 tiles. This means that the generator has to be alive for at least 10 turns and none of the defense tiles were destroyed, which seems extremely unlikely in practice. Yellow, on the other hand, is sort of like upgrading Punisher green from 3->5 in that your 2 yellow tiles gets a boost from 200 to 300 strength total.

    The yellow versus blue should be broken down into an offense/defense issue.

    On offense you're probably not trying to match a ton of environmental tiles only to convert it to strike tiles, since Oasis/Thorned Rose is far superior if you plan to match a lot of environmental tiles, and at least one of these environment has always been available in PvP. So here blue > yellow unless you for some reason decided to keep on match environmental tiles in city.

    On defense, the AI loves to match environmental tiles for you, and I'm assuming any attacker that doesn't plan on making use of enviornmental tiles will attack you on city/lab to take advantage the AI's propensity to match environmental tiles. Obviously, getting 3 strike tiles is much better than having some hot dogs and could make a significant difference.

    Of course, you'd lose this advantage if the attacker plans around environmental tiles (most notably would be Modern Storm), since they'd be trying to get it first and would be playing on a strong enviornmental map, where you don't want to convert. However there are only two characters I can think of that is extermely strong on environmental: Modern Storm and Magneto (simply because he can make crits out of thin air repeatedly).

    I'd say on City, yellow > blue because you need 50 EP (I think?) to get hotdogs, so you've a pretty good chance to get 3 strike tiles instead. In lab, you only need 40 EP so your chance of getting good strike tiles are lower. So the question is how often do you expect to be attacked in city. There's no way for the player to know this as far as I can tell, but it seems to be a safe assumption that players would prefer to attack you on city over other maps in general.
    . Ppl AS bp want to attack you on city. If you HAVE bp they want to attack you anywhere but since, as you yourself said, the enviornment moves on every other level are basically superior.

    His yellow is underpowered at low env tile amounts but if you hit an enviornment crit and can get 75+ enviorn all of a sudden the move becomes the best strike tile generator in the game. So I don't know if it really needs balance as much as its just a move that takes a lot to rev up. If the move did 1 base tile and 1 extra for each 15 it would be much better, but possibly be too much on a character that already boasts top tier health, the strongest black move and highest pure ap to damage ratio in the game, and a nifty strong blue that increases his team tanking even further. Would break him to change it, but he is still top 5 without the change.
  • IceIX wrote:
    jozier wrote:
    Hey Ice, I thought you said that it was new dev policy to avoid alternate characters for now and stick with new guys. Has the run of a bunch of new characters (Psylocke, T'Challa) made that no longer policy? I think it was stated around the time Patch came out but those are the only two new guys since Patch IIRC.
    It's not policy, just the way things in general are moving forward and *very* much the focus of our upcoming characters. Thor (Modern) is very much a test case for alts. He's pretty obviously an upgraded 2* instead of a full on new character/alt like Black Widow (Original). If it turns out that it's well received as released, you may see more. If players don't really pick up on the concept, that kind of release will drop off. But Thor is pretty well a completely new paradigm in character releases.

    Speaking for myself, I hate Thor (Modern). Put me down in the "badly received, don't do it again" camp. You put all that ISO into 2* Thor, and now there's an objectively better version of the same guy but until he's levelled as far as the 2* Thor he's objectively worse. There's no differences in the abilities a la Modern Storm and Classic Storm, it's the same guy. You feel like such a dummy having all that ISO locked into the inferior version and having to buy the same guy twice over. Also, taking up two cover slots on the same exact guy. Ugh.

    If you allow 2* Thor's levels to be transferred over to 3* Thor with no loss of ISO (not for a short time, but forever since people are unlikely to have many 3* Thor covers for a while) the edge is taken off.
  • Attacking on city with BP offers no real advantage. You're not going to have a game based around matching city tiles just so that you can pump Battleplan strike tiles. You'd be much better off doing the same thing on Desert or Forest and just use the environmental powers instead. The tradeoff is basically 3 strike tiles versus 5 AP of all color or 2 Oasis and it's pretty much a no brainer you'd take the latter choices. Now, having BP on defense reduces the inherent attacker advantage on city since now the worthless city tiles are no longer as worthless, and that could be significant since I imagine most good players should attack you on city if they don't have characters that can take advantage of enviornmental tiles, but it's hard to speculate how much of an advantage that is without playing a lot of games. While the AI does collect a lot of environmental tiles, you still need that + 9 yellow and also not too much environmental points that you end up eating hot dogs before Battleplan.
  • Puritas
    Puritas Posts: 670 Critical Contributor
    Updated OP with max values.

    After playing with BP all event, I have to say... I think he's now underpowered, and the nerf wasn't really called for :/

    Yellow: Sometimes can be useful. Environmental tiles are not only your last choice typically but forest/jungle, and even training room can be more useful than the +150 atk bonus you'd get from losing the AP though.
    Also, how often are you going to be matching yellow unless you're forced to?

    Blue: I pretty much almost never use this. OBW, Spidey, and Mags blues take precedence in nearly every situation, especially considering the ridiculous cost. I know two of them are going to be nerfed, but by the time you can use blue it's not really helpful anymore :/ Better off taking even bullseye if you're bringing him for damage reduction.

    Black: 3238 damage to team is nothing :/ You're not even going to take down a gsbw with that. if you're whittling down their hp to use it as a team finisher, inevitably their healer will pop off a heal first. Add to which most lineups have a heavy damage/deny threat you want to down asap, and by the time you can pull together 12 black you've probably got them down already leaving it only hitting two enemies.
    Sure, it's a great combo with 5 berserker rage, but comboing with loki is cheaper and arguably more effective :/
    Finally, 12 black...isn't easy. It's not exactly a priority deny color except vs enemy bps (and maybe psylocke).

    BP's HP: On offense, still rather use patch to tank because every team needs red/green denying. Having BP as the last man standing isn't that great either, as he's absolutely terrible in 1v1 duels unless for some miraculous reason you've had a battleplan ticking away for the last while.


    I'd been fully planning to max him ever since his moveset was released, but I don't know anymore :/
  • So was trying out the amped up black panther in the hulk event. Found out that all you gotta do is team him up with OBW and then when you use BP's black just snatch back the ap you give with OBW.


    Try it out for yourself...
  • That's called synergy brah.
  • PorkBelly
    PorkBelly Posts: 518 Critical Contributor
    I wouldn't describe it as a glitch.

    But, yes, it is a good strategy. I used it through most of the event so far. Was good for wearing down a stunned Hulk before finishing him off with Punisher's Retribution.
  • I also found this glitch when you use patch with loki. You can change to enemy attack tiles patch throw out to a friendly defensive tile. Surely a glitch...




    ...or is this?
  • Justdangit wrote:
    I also found this glitch when you use patch with loki. You can change to enemy attack tiles patch throw out to a friendly defensive tile. Surely a glitch...




    ...or is this?

    That's pretty interesting. I'll have to try that one out
  • I'm going to lvl my black panther low enough for me obw to steal black. Currently I got a 2/3/5 black panther at 86(at this level, his black tile does 35) and an 3/5/4 obw at 68(her black tile does 31). So I need to keep leveling my obw a bit more.
  • Puritas
    Puritas Posts: 670 Critical Contributor
    another glitch to add
    when I use punisher's green
    my match 3s do more damage after
  • Puritas wrote:
    another glitch to add
    when I use punisher's green
    my match 3s do more damage after

    I found a sweet cheat where if you keep casting Spider-Mans blue power, the enemy doesn't get a turn!!!1 I'm totally hacking the poop out of this game.
  • I noticed this glitch where people act like jerks toward complete strangers attempting to share information in good faith.
  • Ghast wrote:
    I noticed this glitch where people act like jerks toward complete strangers attempting to share information in good faith.

    It's clearly not a glitch and labelling it as such does a disservice to it. I clicked on this thread expecting a glitch, not something that has nothing to do with BP.
  • jozier wrote:
    Ghast wrote:
    I noticed this glitch where people act like jerks toward complete strangers attempting to share information in good faith.

    It's clearly not a glitch and labelling it as such does a disservice to it. I clicked on this thread expecting a glitch, not something that has nothing to do with BP.

    Meh. You would have clicked on it anyway icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • Puritas
    Puritas Posts: 670 Critical Contributor
    his kitty paw tile icons are too damn cute
    I can't bring myself to match them and take them off the board
  • And a nerf-nerf here and a nerf-nerf there, here a nerf there a nerf, everywhere a nerf-nerf. icon_e_biggrin.gif
    This is probably going to get locked since there is a 5 page thread for it.
  • Puritas
    Puritas Posts: 670 Critical Contributor
    yeah we could use a humor subforum icon_e_sad.gif