*****Spider-Man (Back in Black)*****

13

Comments

  • Buret0
    Buret0 Posts: 1,591
    HAHAHAHAHAHAH

    Please post this in bugs. There's no way this was an intended effect.
  • BlackSheep101
    BlackSheep101 Posts: 2,025 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yeah, it's already been posted. Will probably be 6 weeks before we see a fix.
  • Marc_Spector
    Marc_Spector Posts: 628 Critical Contributor
    BlackSheep101 wrote:
    Yeah, it's already been posted. Will probably be 6 months before we see a fix.

    Fixed that for you! icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Polares wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:

    ....

    But you have to add those into the cost, the transforming is the cost added on, perhaps a better way to compare is matches per dmg, assuming all matches are 3 tile matches. But 12 yellow is in the cost, if you want to split it 4 each on the cost that's fine, but it does affect dmg ratio.

    OML black requires 4 yellow matches and 5.33 black matches for 37105 max dmg or 3976 dmg per 3 tile match
    OML yellow requires 4 yellow matches and 3 black matches for 6970 Aoe or 995 dmg per 3 tile match
    OML red requires 4 yellow matches, 3 black matches, and 3 red matches for max dmg 2602 dmg per 3 tile match

    Spidey blue requires 2 blue matches and a stun (assuming stun out) 4012 dmg per 3 tile match
    Spidey green requires 4.67 matches and does 3314 per 3 tile match

    Phoenix green requires death 3 green matches and its 5552 Aoe per 3 tile match or insane
    Phoenix red requires 3 red matches and does 2949 per 3 tile match

    End result, Spidey does more dmg quicker than either OML or Phx, but it's in small chunks, whereas OML is less but all in one.

    No you don't. You can say that Spidey can do the damage first, this is true, but you can't say the transform cost is part of the costs of these powers, because they are not, it is not as straight forward. Spidey can't do anything until he gets the AP to cast blue or green but OML on the other hand while he gets black and yellow is regenerating and creating strike tiles for every power you fire! It is much harder to assign damage per AP for OML, you can't do it like that... (It is like saying xpool red damage per AP is X and then not saying that he also heals for quite a bit).

    BUT if you really want to do it like that, remember that just after you transform you already have the power to cast yellow at least once, maybe even twice AND have some very nice strike tiles on the board! And you completely forgot that... If you want to add the cost of the transformation to the cost of black or red AT LEAST consider that you have a 'free' cast of yellow and add the damage of the black strike tiles icon_razz.gif

    So :

    OML black requires 4 yellow matches and 5.33 black matches for 37105 black + 6970 Aoe yellow (which is 20910 damage in total) max dmg or 6218 dmg per 3 tile match (and I am not even considering the strike tiles that at this level they add around 3000 to everything)

    The only other level close to this is Phoenix green, which can be even higher, but she needs to die and come back, which is always dangerous (and will probably never happen in defense).

    Yes, yes and yes the transform cost ALWAYS!!!! play a role in the cost. OML cannot cast red until he has 12 yellow and 9 black. He can never get black to do damage unless he has 12 yellow and 16 black. Even yellow requires the 12 yellow and 9 black. Never, ever never, so to say that those AP costs aren't added into his red is just not being realistic. I'll give you yellow to a point, but there is no such thing as free.

    I'm not saying Spidey is better than OML, but he is quicker and when you add up all the AP at the end of day, you'll find out that they do about the same amount per that AP.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:

    ...

    Yes, yes and yes the transform cost ALWAYS!!!! play a role in the cost. OML cannot cast red until he has 12 yellow and 9 black. He can never get black to do damage unless he has 12 yellow and 16 black. Even yellow requires the 12 yellow and 9 black. Never, ever never, so to say that those AP costs aren't added into his red is just not being realistic. I'll give you yellow to a point, but there is no such thing as free.

    I'm not saying Spidey is better than OML, but he is quicker and when you add up all the AP at the end of day, you'll find out that they do about the same amount per that AP.

    Well I see we are not going to agree on this point (it is like saying that xpool red is just 583 dmg/AP and forget completely that he also heals for 4500).

    But again, at least if you are counting the cost of the transformation in his active abilities, add to red and black that you can fire yellow for free once and the damage of the black strike tiles generated. Count everything not just what you want icon_razz.gif
  • BlackSheep101
    BlackSheep101 Posts: 2,025 Chairperson of the Boards
    This is why trying to normalize everything down to damage/AP is inadequate, and a poor representation of how a character actually plays.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Polares wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:

    ...

    Yes, yes and yes the transform cost ALWAYS!!!! play a role in the cost. OML cannot cast red until he has 12 yellow and 9 black. He can never get black to do damage unless he has 12 yellow and 16 black. Even yellow requires the 12 yellow and 9 black. Never, ever never, so to say that those AP costs aren't added into his red is just not being realistic. I'll give you yellow to a point, but there is no such thing as free.

    I'm not saying Spidey is better than OML, but he is quicker and when you add up all the AP at the end of day, you'll find out that they do about the same amount per that AP.

    Well I see we are not going to agree on this point (it is like saying that xpool red is just 583 dmg/AP and forget completely that he also heals for 4500).

    But again, at least if you are counting the cost of the transformation in his active abilities, add to red and black that you can fire yellow for free once and the damage of the black strike tiles generated. Count everything not just what you want icon_razz.gif

    I do get what you are saying. And as for X-pool, the health is just the prize in the cereal box. Yes it's partially why the cost is higher, and it's why you are willing to pay the 13 AP, but you gaining health doesn't down a guy. Now, as for counting, I gave OML the benefit of the doubt of having all the tiles out for his black and able to trigger max red, however that just like his strike tiles out are prizes in the cereal box and can't always be counted on, when you go for straight AP to dmg ratio you can't look at anything else other than how much AP or how many matches did it take to get me there. Because as you said, look at the tiles, I mean you get sorta free strike tiles from OML red that when factored in make his red ridiculous but in a vacuum and by himself they don't exist.

    Messing around on a sandboxed account, OML can take down a 3 man 4* team all by himself in less time then Spidey. OML is almost predicated on just one shoting people. Spidey is far less damaging on a grand scale, but his constant barrage puts more dmg out faster. It's like DOOM. Spidey is the machine gun and OML is the BFG. Spidey puts out lots of dmg fast but sometimes needs a grenade or shotgun (another character) to finish them off, OML is slow to get going but once he's up and running everyone is dead.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Polares wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:

    ...

    Yes, yes and yes the transform cost ALWAYS!!!! play a role in the cost. OML cannot cast red until he has 12 yellow and 9 black. He can never get black to do damage unless he has 12 yellow and 16 black. Even yellow requires the 12 yellow and 9 black. Never, ever never, so to say that those AP costs aren't added into his red is just not being realistic. I'll give you yellow to a point, but there is no such thing as free.

    I'm not saying Spidey is better than OML, but he is quicker and when you add up all the AP at the end of day, you'll find out that they do about the same amount per that AP.

    Well I see we are not going to agree on this point (it is like saying that xpool red is just 583 dmg/AP and forget completely that he also heals for 4500).

    But again, at least if you are counting the cost of the transformation in his active abilities, add to red and black that you can fire yellow for free once and the damage of the black strike tiles generated. Count everything not just what you want icon_razz.gif

    I do get what you are saying. And as for X-pool, the health is just the prize in the cereal box. Yes it's partially why the cost is higher, and it's why you are willing to pay the 13 AP, but you gaining health doesn't down a guy. Now, as for counting, I gave OML the benefit of the doubt of having all the tiles out for his black and able to trigger max red, however that just like his strike tiles out are prizes in the cereal box and can't always be counted on, when you go for straight AP to dmg ratio you can't look at anything else other than how much AP or how many matches did it take to get me there. Because as you said, look at the tiles, I mean you get sorta free strike tiles from OML red that when factored in make his red ridiculous but in a vacuum and by himself they don't exist.

    Messing around on a sandboxed account, OML can take down a 3 man 4* team all by himself in less time then Spidey. OML is almost predicated on just one shoting people. Spidey is far less damaging on a grand scale, but his constant barrage puts more dmg out faster. It's like DOOM. Spidey is the machine gun and OML is the BFG. Spidey puts out lots of dmg fast but sometimes needs a grenade or shotgun (another character) to finish them off, OML is slow to get going but once he's up and running everyone is dead.
  • hesjingixen
    hesjingixen Posts: 215 Tile Toppler
    I'm sure I'm not the first to say this, but.....5*? Really? I mean, there was a whole storyline where Spider-Man receives the power cosmic, but do they choose THAT spiderman? No, they go with emo spiderman. Wth?
  • notamutant
    notamutant Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    https://youtu.be/Or6S6XXgEIg

    I finally created a new video. I will hopefully have some more time this holiday weekend to put out some more for other recent releases.
  • pabasa130
    pabasa130 Posts: 208 Tile Toppler
    So I've been (un)fortunate enough to have a 1/0/2 Spidey. Works well with Nick Fury's yellow. Save six blue, and his yellow stuns for three turns and you can cast blue to add extra damage. That however makes Nick tank for Spidey since he goes invisible.

    BSS' purple colour however is a bit confusing. It says strike tiles add 45% (mine does 55% at two covers) less damage, but when I used him against Bodyguard goons in TaT, the strike tiles still show the same damage as the initial cast. Is it a display bug, or is it intentional that the damage cut is done on the attack and not on the strike tile itself?
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    pabasa130 wrote:
    BSS' purple colour however is a bit confusing. It says strike tiles add 45% (mine does 55% at two covers) less damage, but when I used him against Bodyguard goons in TaT, the strike tiles still show the same damage as the initial cast. Is it a display bug, or is it intentional that the damage cut is done on the attack and not on the strike tile itself?

    The tile tooltip does not change, but the value actually added to damage is correctly reduced. Same happens with Venom. Presumably this is because the effect is a global, blanket effect rather than a one-time permanent modifier (like Falcon's), and does go away if Spidey goes down.

    Anyone test if the effect is suppressed if Spidey (or Venom) gets stunned?
  • TheWerebison
    TheWerebison Posts: 431 Mover and Shaker
    What was the teaser hint before they released this character?

    Because if it had been me, I would've put "Nod ya head!"
  • vudu3
    vudu3 Posts: 940 Critical Contributor
    I believe it was "out of the blue and into the black".
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    I finally got a purple cover getting him to 3/4/1. At how many covers does he become useable?

    Currently I have a 1/5/4 390 Phoenix and 4/3/2 390 OML
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't think people have realised how good this guy is.

    Take a cheap stun TU with you (iceman) and you win the match. The other team can collect AP, fire powers, make matches and do absolutely nothing to you. And there is no way to stop it. The only thing is AOE but there's no Aoe which you can activate before he will drop you because of how often you'll be stunned.

    I've come across him a few times in SIM and he usually beats me when it's 3on 1
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    OneLastGambit wrote:
    I don't think people have realised how good this guy is.

    Take a cheap stun TU with you (iceman) and you win the match. The other team can collect AP, fire powers, make matches and do absolutely nothing to you. And there is no way to stop it. The only thing is AOE but there's no Aoe which you can activate before he will drop you because of how often you'll be stunned.

    I've come across him a few times in SIM and he usually beats me when it's 3on 1

    With 5s at this point in time I think all is a matter of availability. OML and PH are the ones we see the most because they are the ones that have been out for longer. Also most people just but classic to cover OML, this is why it is that hard to see GG also. Now that Spidey is also in classic people will start getting covers for him and he will appear more.

    There are not that many AoE in 5 land so invisibility is a great asset (both OML and PH need to transform for the AoE attacks). Then purple is also a great power for going up against both OML and PH. IM46 and Spidey together can be a very good duo.

    His biggest problem is that green is so damn expensive. It is also a problem that there are no good stunners in 5 land yet ( and in 4 land he shares colors with iceman )
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,581 Chairperson of the Boards
    OneLastGambit wrote:
    I don't think people have realised how good this guy is.

    I would love to try him out, but due to the joys of rng I have a 5/2/0 Spidey that is fairly pointless.
  • Orion
    Orion Posts: 1,295 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mine is 5/1/4 now. I'd like to try him out, so I'll level him up a bit and see. I like that he's rainbow with OML so there will always be big damage and I can hide any 3rd person they're with.
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    Orion wrote:
    Mine is 5/1/4 now. I'd like to try him out, so I'll level him up a bit and see. I like that he's rainbow with OML so there will always be big damage and I can hide any 3rd person they're with.

    Mine is 0/1/1 but I can tell you from fighting against him a few times he is highly underrated. He's also an anti oml so for anyone frustrated with the massive amount of oml you see in PvP and SIM spidey is your guy.

    Highest 5* match damage
    Nullifies strikes
    Invisibility that can't be cancelled
    2 stun moves
    One big nuke
    One very cheap move

    For me this guy is a great character and by far the most frustrating I've come against.

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