*****Spider-Man (Back in Black)*****

notamutant

OneLastGambit wrote:

Orion wrote:

Mine is 5/1/4 now. I'd like to try him out, so I'll level him up a bit and see. I like that he's rainbow with OML so there will always be big damage and I can hide any 3rd person they're with.

Mine is 0/1/1 but I can tell you from fighting against him a few times he is highly underrated. He's also an anti oml so for anyone frustrated with the massive amount of oml you see in PvP and SIM spidey is your guy.

Highest 5* match damage
Nullifies strikes
Invisibility that can't be cancelled
2 stun moves
One big nuke
One very cheap move

For me this guy is a great character and by far the most frustrating I've come against.

You know who else is anti-OML? OML. You can easily beat BSS because he has no healing. He only has two active moves. One of them is cheap, but you won't use the more powerful version of it unless you get off his green, which is really expensive. It is also random. As a 4 star player, I would skip 400+ OML, but not BSS.

Polares

notamutant wrote:

...

You know who else is anti-OML? OML. You can easily beat BSS because he has no healing. He only has two active moves. One of them is cheap, but you won't use the more powerful version of it unless you get off his green, which is really expensive. It is also random. As a 4 star player, I would skip 400+ OML, but not BSS.

Spidey is obviously very bad in defense, but so is OML. OML is WORTHLESS in defense, if you deny him black he is done. PH is also very bad in defense, the only ones that can scare you a little bit in defense are GG and IM46 because of their very high damage ratios.

Then comparing Spidey with maybe the best char in the whole game is a bit unfair. GG, IM46 and OML are in the top layer, and PH and Spidey are in the good layer, so I think a more fitting comparison (one Phaser and I had some time ago) is, who is better Spidey or PH? Both are obviously better than Cap and SS, so that is for me a more interesting question. You can also ask which team is better OML+PH or Spidey+IM46 (or Spidey+GG), this is also a very interesting question. OML+PH are better for climbing, but for a hop, or one against the other team in 2vs2.

I think that if there was a better stunner in 5 land Spidey would be much better, as is right now, PH is probably better... for now.

Polares

OJSP wrote:

Polares wrote:

I think that if there was a better stunner in 5 land Spidey would be much better, as is right now, PH is probably better... for now.

I think it's not a matter of "if" , but "when"

Well, by the time we get this stunner they might be much better 5s

If green was a bit cheaper or blue stunned for two turns ...

fight4thedream

Polares wrote:

notamutant wrote:

...

You know who else is anti-OML? OML. You can easily beat BSS because he has no healing. He only has two active moves. One of them is cheap, but you won't use the more powerful version of it unless you get off his green, which is really expensive. It is also random. As a 4 star player, I would skip 400+ OML, but not BSS.

Spidey is obviously very bad in defense, but so is OML. OML is WORTHLESS in defense, if you deny him black he is done. PH is also very bad in defense, the only ones that can scare you a little bit in defense are GG and IM46 because of their very high damage ratios.

Then comparing Spidey with maybe the best char in the whole game is a bit unfair. GG, IM46 and OML are in the top layer, and PH and Spidey are in the good layer, so I think a more fitting comparison (one Phaser and I had some time ago) is, who is better Spidey or PH? Both are obviously better than Cap and SS, so that is for me a more interesting question. You can also ask which team is better OML+PH or Spidey+IM46 (or Spidey+GG), this is also a very interesting question. OML+PH are better for climbing, but for a hop, or one against the other team in 2vs2.

I think that if there was a better stunner in 5 land Spidey would be much better, as is right now, PH is probably better... for now.

Polares, what kind of team are your running with in PvP? Because your comments make it sound like you are playing a very different one than I am (the vast majority of my fights in PVP are against OML and PHX or occasionally some other random partner). OML is worthless on defense? Have you forgotten his ridiculous healing which basically means you either:

a.) have to save him for the end since he will heal off match damage and most attack abilities
b.) save up enough AP to take him down in one go

You are also forgetting his high match damage and that he generates red strikes every time an ability is used.

You are right, denying him black (or yellow depending on board, build and strategy) can keep him de-clawed but there are only a handful of characters with the means of taking him down without relying on the use of MBW TUs: mainly PHX and GG. (You might be able to make arguments for Spidey or IM but usually they are serving as sub partners for OML and GG, respectively).

And your own criticism of his "lack of worth" defensively can be turned more appropriately against GG: Deny him black and your basically dealing with a randomized bomb thrower. Even if the AI manages to pull off the red bombs, OML can heal off those hits and PHX can be resurrected. GG, on the other hand, cannot.

And if you are running an OML/PHX guess which colors you are chasing? Black and Purple/Pink.

I am aware that there are those that think GG and IM46 are or will be the new meta-tier but having fought a buffed champed GG with OML in the last Nefarious Foes a few times my advice to you is "Don't believe the hype".

That is not to say they are not good or comparable to OML/PHX. They are probably faster than OML/PHX which is good for shield hopping but if you are climbing or going commando, then OML/PHX is the team for you. I am guessing people are just bored with the reigning King and Queen of Pain and are eager to see them dethroned. Apparently GG/IM is more fun, so there's that.

As for Spidey, on defense he is a joke. The AI won't save his blue, so hits for 8000 and some change. Sure he hides for one turn but that is a poor defensive option compared to OML's heal and Phoenix resurrection. The key is to just target him first (which you will be doing anyway since there is no point in hitting OML who currently seems to be his de facto partner, haven't come across any other full fledged variations) and keep an eye on his green AP.

Phoenix is vastly superior. Her pink/purple has potential cascade potential which at the 5* level is a big deal. Additionally she has some good strike tiles, which means you will probably eating a few red hits and then painful match damage. Finally, if she rises from the ashes you better pray she doesn't have the green to wipe your team.

The only hope Spidey has for reaching top tier status is entirely dependent on the introduction of another 5* character that has a great stun ability that doesn't overlap with his own colors which is unfortunate since OML, PHX and GG don't need to rely on other characters to prove their worth.

My personal assessment is that Spidey is Surfer level which is a bit ironic considering Surfer's immunity to stun. If there were a one-on-one 5* game mode, his value would increase but as it is now he is basically "OML partner" material.

Polares

fight4thedream wrote:

...

I think OML is worthless in defense BUT there are some considerations of course, you need to use champed 4s or 5s to kill him, that is obvious (he is a 5). And If he is champed, then to kill any champed 5 you need another champed 5. What I meant with the worthless is that he is no better than any other 5 in defense, and he is very easy to control. And yes, you will fight him last, or when you have gathered enough AP to kill him in a turn or two. I have lost to an OML team probably just once or twice, but I also have an OML so maybe I am exaggerating a little bit with the term worthless

OML+PH are the tireless duo, perfect for climbing and PvE, you can play with them for hours without the use of a single health pack, but IM and GG can easily kill any other 5. OML is very passive so this is why I think GG and IM are much more fun to play.

I don't have real experience with Spidey because mine has just two covers, so take my opinion of him with a big grain of salt, but he looks like much better than SS. SS can heal which is cool for playing for long periods of time but Spidey can do much more damage than SS. Also Spidey can go invisible and neutralizes strike tiles which is somethin quite big in 5 land with OML and PH

OneLastGambit

I don't see oml as much of a threat on defense myself (and the slew of people at my level who hit me in PvP agree) leave him till last and he does very little in the time you leave him alone. He's a bit too passive on defense.

I use him often enough to know that he's useful but against spidey not so much, all strikes are worthless and spidey stays invisible enough to make sure he takes little damage from oml matching. The healing is great (his entire value is based on healing) but if you consider the following :

1. Oml healing is irrelevant if left till last

And

2. His free strikes are nullified by spidey passive

Then...

The only value you get from oml in a fight against spidey is if he transforms...which doesn't happen often.

I'm a fan of oml but I don't see him as top the pile anymore...tied second with spidey. GG top for me, just my subjective opinion based mostly on fighting against these characters. My experience using them is restricted to OML and Phoenix (Phoenix i hardly ever use due to the significant drawbacks)

Should also state im a late climber so I don't really think about D too often.

DrLemniscate

If you save OML until last, his healing has already been effective. Especially if he is the biggest threat. Before OML, you would isually save the featured 3* for last so the enemy wasted AP on weak abilities. How many turns does it take you to kill him when he is last? Multiple that by 1,600 and add to his effective health. Also, paired with Phoenix forces you in to 2 unfortunate scenarios. Fight throufh a reborn phoenix, or fight through double OML healing.

Spidey's anti-strike tile is very attractive, but will be more at 3 covers than 5 as the 5* meta becomes more diverse. It is also a dynamic ability, so when spidey leaves, the tiles are back to full strength. Instead of destroying them with Bruce or reducing them with Phoenix.

sambrookjm

Just noticed that if his blue power downs a character, he does not go invisible.  This latest PvE where he's the required 5-star is the first time I've had that happen, as mine is currently sitting at 1/1/3 and doesn't get used very much.  Thanks to Okoye's TU boosting the damage, he took out a 4K health Moonstone.  I was expecting him to go invisible so his next blue would take out one of the symbiotes, but he was still sitting there, very visible.

OzarkBoatswain

Fix a 5* - BSSM

Blue 
Always does damage and stuns. Remove the second state that happens when he's invisible.
Add a Blue Passive - Reduce Attack tile damage 45/55/65/75/100%.

And then we'd have a true Kitty Pryde counter.

Daredevil217

He's already a true Kitty Pryde counter.

RickOShay

Daredevil217 said:

He's already a true Kitty Pryde counter.

No, he's already a "Gritty" counter. but he's not directly a Kitty counter.