*****Spider-Man (Back in Black)*****

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Comments

  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Both the cover and the suit for the character is after the Civil War in Marvel comics. It is not the symbiote, but rather just a black suit to represent spiderman's anger and serious side. So yes, venom would work
  • As much as I love Black Suit Spider-Man, Cosmic Spidey is the only one that makes sense to me as being 5* quality.
  • vudu3vudu3 Posts: 930 Critical Contributor
    babinro wrote:
    Current 5* Ranking:
    1) OML
    2) Phoenix
    3) Spider-Man
    4) Silver Surfer
    Thanks for your impressions on the 5* characters. I find it very interesting to hear from someone who has experience playing with the high level 5* characters that most of us only read about. I'm not sure if you're interested in writing more but I'd love to read a detailed topic about how each of the 5* characters stack up. We know OML is the best but just how much better is he than Phoenix and how far behind is Surfer?
  • PongiePongie Posts: 1,232 Chairperson of the Boards
    vudu3 wrote:
    We know OML is the best but just how much better is he than Phoenix and how far behind is Surfer?

    I dont feel so bad now for opening 15 tokens today trying to get spiderman and ended up with an OML.
  • Azoth658Azoth658 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    Both the cover and the suit for the character is after the Civil War in Marvel comics. It is not the symbiote, but rather just a black suit to represent spiderman's anger and serious side. So yes, venom would work

    Such a good storyline that one before they revamped the series.

    In other news I would want him unlevelled just for his passive to get through some of those goon nodes by removing crazy strength tiles that wipe teams in seconds.

    I can see why people playing with levelled 5* can see why he isn't that useful currently though. Although surely on defence negating OML strike tiles means he could cause other teams some frustration?
  • PolaresPolares Posts: 2,413 Chairperson of the Boards
    vudu3 wrote:
    babinro wrote:
    Current 5* Ranking:
    1) OML
    2) Phoenix
    3) Spider-Man
    4) Silver Surfer
    Thanks for your impressions on the 5* characters. I find it very interesting to hear from someone who has experience playing with the high level 5* characters that most of us only read about. I'm not sure if you're interested in writing more but I'd love to read a detailed topic about how each of the 5* characters stack up. We know OML is the best but just how much better is he than Phoenix and how far behind is Surfer?

    I have not any maxed 5 so I am talking on impressions here but I would say something like

    OML >>>>> Phoenix >> SpiderMan > SS

    OML is so much better than all other 5s that I think he will be nerfed soon icon_razz.gif

    Phoenix is quite good AFTER she dies, before she is SS level meh, just 2 usable powers and red is quite bad. But when she comes back green is very good and red is passable (that it becomes cheaper makes it passable). This is why there is so much difference with logan, OML is good even before he transforms, after he transforms he is a killing machine, and you can decide when he is going to transform (you match the tiles, you cast black, etc.), Phoenix is much more uncontrollable (well if you don't damage it yourself quitting in a previous match before using her).

    I am still undecided about Spiderman, green is a little bit too expensive but at least it also stuns (it is like casting two times SS red so they are comparable, but at least spidey has the stun). Purple can be big in the future, it helps managing pretransform OML and goons and other strike tiles creators (IMHB, JG, Antman, etc.). Blue is not bad when invisible, completely meh when visible, if you have 12 blue when cast you know you are going to do 12k and one turn stun, so you can judge the power like that. All in all I think just slightly better than SS.

    SS is unstunnable, that is his best quality, and blue can heal him over and over and over when he plays against any other char except OML. Red does too little regarding damage and charged tiles, and black is too expensive and the tile too fragile. He should have a lot more life and do way more match damage than the other 5s if his powers remain the same in the future.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Polares wrote:
    vudu3 wrote:
    babinro wrote:
    Current 5* Ranking:
    1) OML
    2) Phoenix
    3) Spider-Man
    4) Silver Surfer
    Thanks for your impressions on the 5* characters. I find it very interesting to hear from someone who has experience playing with the high level 5* characters that most of us only read about. I'm not sure if you're interested in writing more but I'd love to read a detailed topic about how each of the 5* characters stack up. We know OML is the best but just how much better is he than Phoenix and how far behind is Surfer?

    I have not any maxed 5 so I am talking on impressions here but I would say something like

    OML >>>>> Phoenix >> SpiderMan > SS

    OML is so much better than all other 5s that I think he will be nerfed soon icon_razz.gif

    Phoenix is quite good AFTER she dies, before she is SS level meh, just 2 usable powers and red is quite bad. But when she comes back green is very good and red is passable (that it becomes cheaper makes it passable). This is why there is so much difference with logan, OML is good even before he transforms, after he transforms he is a killing machine, and you can decide when he is going to transform (you match the tiles, you cast black, etc.), Phoenix is much more uncontrollable (well if you don't damage it yourself quitting in a previous match before using her).

    I am still undecided about Spiderman, green is a little bit too expensive but at least it also stuns (it is like casting two times SS red so they are comparable, but at least spidey has the stun). Purple can be big in the future, it helps managing pretransform OML and goons and other strike tiles creators (IMHB, JG, Antman, etc.). Blue is not bad when invisible, completely meh when visible, if you have 12 blue when cast you know you are going to do 12k and one turn stun, so you can judge the power like that. All in all I think just slightly better than SS.

    SS is unstunnable, that is his best quality, and blue can heal him over and over and over when he plays against any other char except OML. Red does too little regarding damage and charged tiles, and black is too expensive and the tile too fragile. He should have a lot more life and do way more match damage than the other 5s if his powers remain the same in the future.

    Playing my friends sandbox account, I have to say, Spidey is quite impressive. He completely negates OML at 5 purple. I would say he's as annoying as his 3* counterpart. Spidey is easily the best 1v1 5*. Green is impressive but expensive, feels like it should do AoE for that cost. But when you consider OML's insane red dmg actually costs 12 black plus 12 yellow then 8 red, Spidey's is pretty cheap. The key to Spidey's success though is to have someone else stunning for you while you hoard blue. It's kinda like IF where you need to hoard black to get purple to do some serious dmg.

    As a duo, OML and Spidey are insane. Keep Spidey invisible, OML heals the dmg. No color cross, they are solid.

    At current I would rank 5* as follows
    1.)OML
    2.)Spidey
    3.)Phoenix
    4.)SS

    Phoenix is easily #1 if you can get her green to go. Also it's fun to bring her in with almost no health, die then very early smack everyone for 16K.

    OML has more raw power but is slower than spidey. Spidey can dish out lots of dmg quickly if characters can stay stunned, blue puts out a lot of dmg, and his purple really spanks OML.

    Overall, Spidey is good, definitely a 4* killer
  • BlahahahBlahahah Age Unconfirmed Posts: 738
    This just in...

    Spiderman throwing cars in comparable power to the unleashed Phoenix Force.
  • BlackBoltRocksBlackBoltRocks Posts: 2,287 Chairperson of the Boards
    Blahahah wrote:
    This just in...

    Spiderman throwing cars in comparable power to the unleashed Phoenix Force.

    Wolverine can survive both. Therefore, using that standard, Spidey is equal in strength to Phoenix
  • PolaresPolares Posts: 2,413 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:

    ....

    At current I would rank 5* as follows
    1.)OML
    2.)Spidey
    3.)Phoenix
    4.)SS

    Phoenix is easily #1 if you can get her green to go. Also it's fun to bring her in with almost no health, die then very early smack everyone for 16K.

    OML has more raw power but is slower than spidey. Spidey can dish out lots of dmg quickly if characters can stay stunned, blue puts out a lot of dmg, and his purple really spanks OML.

    Overall, Spidey is good, definitely a 4* killer

    But then, after your comment about Phoenix, why do you rank her third?

    Thing is, Spidey needs other chars to shine a little (because of blue), and interestingly enough, no 5 stuns for now (a part than himself), so you need a 4 char in the team, someone like iceman (well not iceman because both use blue), 4hor (same problem than iceman) or basically spidey miles, with a very cheap stun that can combine with Spidey blue. Green I still think is too much (is 14AP of the SAME COLOR, probably even OML 9+12 is easier to get). It is really a pitty that 5 Spidey can do nothing with web tiles, I think like Venom is a wasted opportunity...

    This is why I think he is right now the third 5, at least Phoenix doesnt need anyone once she is transformed.

    I agree that 'the best' about him is that he is a good complement of OML.

    PS: And OML needs 9 black, not 12. And once he transforms, he has some insane strike tiles in the board (black cast) and he can cast yellow right away, because black doesnt waste the yellow AP. So I think he is better than spidey 1 vs 1. And then in his next match he will start healing himself for all the damage he suffered in his last battle icon_razz.gif

    The only 'weak' point of OML is that he can be stunned, so yeah Spidey green can hurt him A LOT (probably the only way of killing a 400+ lvl OML a part than with another OML).
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Polares wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:

    ....

    At current I would rank 5* as follows
    1.)OML
    2.)Spidey
    3.)Phoenix
    4.)SS

    Phoenix is easily #1 if you can get her green to go. Also it's fun to bring her in with almost no health, die then very early smack everyone for 16K.

    OML has more raw power but is slower than spidey. Spidey can dish out lots of dmg quickly if characters can stay stunned, blue puts out a lot of dmg, and his purple really spanks OML.

    Overall, Spidey is good, definitely a 4* killer

    But then, after your comment about Phoenix, why do you rank her third?

    Thing is, Spidey needs other chars to shine a little (because of blue), and interestingly enough, no 5 stuns for now (a part than himself), so you need a 4 char in the team, someone like iceman (well not iceman because both use blue), 4hor (same problem than iceman) or basically spidey miles, with a very cheap stun that can combine with Spidey blue. Green I still think is too much (is 14AP of the SAME COLOR, probably even OML 9+12 is easier to get). It is really a pitty that 5 Spidey can do nothing with web tiles, I think like Venom is a wasted opportunity...

    This is why I think he is right now the third 5, at least Phoenix doesnt need anyone once she is transformed.

    I agree that 'the best' about him is that he is a good complement of OML.

    PS: And OML needs 9 black, not 12. And once he transforms, he has some insane strike tiles in the board (black cast) and he can cast yellow right away, because black doesnt waste the yellow AP. So I think he is better than spidey 1 vs 1. And then in his next match he will start healing himself for all the damage he suffered in his last battle icon_razz.gif

    The only 'weak' point of OML is that he can be stunned, so yeah Spidey green can hurt him A LOT (probably the only way of killing a 400+ lvl OML a part than with another OML).

    I rank her third only because if no one else is left, she's dead. That green is much harder to activate than people think if she isn't coming in with less than full health.

    OML is the one guy that can truly stand alone better than anyone, and pretty much destroys anyone except Black Suit Spidey.

    I think in a vacuum OML is the strongest, but in the right situation Phoenix, Spidey, and OML are all equal. OML I think seems more powerful because he is very straightforward.

    PS. Sorry about the numbers, misread, but yeah to get OML going he does have some hefty AP costs, more than it really appears.

    As it stands:
    OML--Still Sharp (max dmg) 813 dmg per AP
    Old Habits (max Dmg) 6970 AoE, is 410 Aoe dmg per AP
    Finish the Fight 897 dmg per AP

    Spidey
    Blue---1337 dmg per AP
    Green---1104 dmg per AP

    Phoenix
    Green--1850 dmg AoE per AP and death
    Red
    983 dmg per AP

    As you can see, Spidey other than Phx Green which does huge dmg, is better on the ratio side, but the plus side of OML is that they are almost always going to be KO's, other his yellow and red hit much less if the secondary requirments are not me.
  • PolaresPolares Posts: 2,413 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:

    As it stands:
    OML--Still Sharp (max dmg) 813 dmg per AP
    Old Habits (max Dmg) 6970 AoE, is 410 Aoe dmg per AP
    Finish the Fight 897 dmg per AP

    How have you come up with these numbers? They are completely wrong :s

    All max damages:

    Still sharp 5300 dmg per AP
    Old habit is 2250 dmg per AP
    Finish the fight is 3125 dmg per AP for example

    I guess you have added the costs of transforming, but you can't do that, this is not a direct cost of the power, and black also adds strike tiles and there are also the passives working (healing and adding strike tiles). And if you cast red twice?

    OML has the best dmg/ratio by far, yes he is a bit slow, but while gets the AP to transform he heals himself and fills the board with strike tiles, it is not like he is just waiting for the AP icon_razz.gif.

    It is true that if Phoenix is last is useless, so I guess that she will be completely useless in defense but in attack she can be far better than spidey.

    Edit:

    I have to say that I have overlooked something, and that is that while someone is stunned he is invisible, so it is immune to match damage and direct attacks. I think that if we get another 5 (and we will) that can stun more consistently than Spidey (blue stuns just for one turn and green is a little expensive) he can be really better than Phoenix.

    If iceman and 4hor didn't stun with blue AP ...
  • greenglovegreenglove Posts: 100 Tile Toppler
    And here are the numbers on a 550 Spiderman (on my sandbox account).

    yellowtile.png 174 bluetile.png 1382 purpletile.png 1075 redtile.png 161 greentile.png 1228 blacktile.png 147 tutile.png 694 Health: 94101

    blueflag.png lvl 3: 6226 and 17263; lvl 4: 8763 and 19730; lvl 5: 11299 and 22196

    greenflag.png lvl 3: 25361 and 3 turn stun; lvl 4: 4 turn stun, no damage change; lvl 5: 33430 damage


    On the rather interesting question of the relative strength of the 5-star land, I would actually put Phoenix first. She is absolutely vicious. OML takes a LONG time to transform. And, actually, if you play Phoenix and OML together, you don't usually want OML to transform (at least not until the end), because of his strike tile generation, which Phoenix goes to town on with her maxed purple. Phoenix is FAR faster than OML. I think everyone would agree that SS is the least powerful of the 4 5*'s. I run Phoenix on 454, and it is superb. Spiderman can be very powerful as well. His blue (which a person would be a fool not to want maxed out) can down two characters in some situations for the same AP as Iceman's blue. You just have to remember not to use the first blue against SS, who can't be stunned.
  • RonburgundyRonburgundy Age Unconfirmed Posts: 21 Just Dropped In
    With a Spider-Man in every star category now, this pretty much seals the deal that we won't be getting my favorite Spider-Man, the 2099 variant. Holding out hope we move to 6* characters at some point.... lol
  • Buret0Buret0 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,591
    greenglove wrote:
    I think everyone would agree that SS is the least powerful of the 4 5*'s.

    I'm not sure I agree. While speed is very important in PvP, sustainability is also important. Surfer's blue allows me to tank everything except AOE damage and by the end of the battle I'm back at full health. Black Suit Spider ("BSS") can't heal, only hide (and only when someone is stunned). His nuke is slow and does a random stun. Protect tiles aren't that important in the current meta (depending on who the next two 5*s are, they might become more important) so ignoring them currently isn't a big deal. Negating strike tiles is the only thing BSS does well, but it takes up his entire third ability to do so (again, his invisibility isn't going to be that critical and will be extremely transitory until new stuns are available in the 4-5* meta).

    He's not sustainable on O due to his lack of healing. He's not that fast, his green is mostly going to be used to kill the final target (OML fwiw). His build requires combinations, so the AI will not be any good at playing him, so he's not a great choice on D. His best combinations require you to use blue AP, which is where all the decent stuns come from.

    At max level and covers he can do 12,111 damage for 12 blue AP, doing a 1 turn stun and turning invisible until his next turn. The AI cannot use the same ability twice in the same turn, even if the AI had 30 blue AP, the AI would only ever do the "otherwise 4087 and stun for one turn". So the AI is only going to use the powerful blue when some other ability dealt the stun. Of course, a human player may be able to do the full 8024 damage while invisible on each attack (like waiting for a Jean Grey stun or using green then blue), but the AI won't.

    Compare that to 7,964 damage and a 4 turn stun on Iceman, a 4* (who does 10K when boosted). You have 4 turns to see the AI punch a snowman, but how often do you see it happen? However, the 6 AP 4 turn stun is worth it even without the damage.

    I'll take a PoolSurfer against a SpiderLogan any day.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Polares wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:

    As it stands:
    OML--Still Sharp (max dmg) 813 dmg per AP
    Old Habits (max Dmg) 6970 AoE, is 410 Aoe dmg per AP
    Finish the Fight 897 dmg per AP

    How have you come up with these numbers? They are completely wrong :s

    All max damages:

    Still sharp 5300 dmg per AP
    Old habit is 2250 dmg per AP
    Finish the fight is 3125 dmg per AP for example

    I guess you have added the costs of transforming, but you can't do that, this is not a direct cost of the power, and black also adds strike tiles and there are also the passives working (healing and adding strike tiles). And if you cast red twice?

    OML has the best dmg/ratio by far, yes he is a bit slow, but while gets the AP to transform he heals himself and fills the board with strike tiles, it is not like he is just waiting for the AP icon_razz.gif.

    It is true that if Phoenix is last is useless, so I guess that she will be completely useless in defense but in attack she can be far better than spidey.

    Edit:

    I have to say that I have overlooked something, and that is that while someone is stunned he is invisible, so it is immune to match damage and direct attacks. I think that if we get another 5 (and we will) that can stun more consistently than Spidey (blue stuns just for one turn and green is a little expensive) he can be really better than Phoenix.

    If iceman and 4hor didn't stun with blue AP ...

    But you have to add those into the cost, the transforming is the cost added on, perhaps a better way to compare is matches per dmg, assuming all matches are 3 tile matches. But 12 yellow is in the cost, if you want to split it 4 each on the cost that's fine, but it does affect dmg ratio.

    OML black requires 4 yellow matches and 5.33 black matches for 37105 max dmg or 3976 dmg per 3 tile match
    OML yellow requires 4 yellow matches and 3 black matches for 6970 Aoe or 995 dmg per 3 tile match
    OML red requires 4 yellow matches, 3 black matches, and 3 red matches for max dmg 2602 dmg per 3 tile match

    Spidey blue requires 2 blue matches and a stun (assuming stun out) 4012 dmg per 3 tile match
    Spidey green requires 4.67 matches and does 3314 per 3 tile match

    Phoenix green requires death 3 green matches and its 5552 Aoe per 3 tile match or insane
    Phoenix red requires 3 red matches and does 2949 per 3 tile match

    End result, Spidey does more dmg quicker than either OML or Phx, but it's in small chunks, whereas OML is less but all in one.
  • PolaresPolares Posts: 2,413 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:

    ....

    But you have to add those into the cost, the transforming is the cost added on, perhaps a better way to compare is matches per dmg, assuming all matches are 3 tile matches. But 12 yellow is in the cost, if you want to split it 4 each on the cost that's fine, but it does affect dmg ratio.

    OML black requires 4 yellow matches and 5.33 black matches for 37105 max dmg or 3976 dmg per 3 tile match
    OML yellow requires 4 yellow matches and 3 black matches for 6970 Aoe or 995 dmg per 3 tile match
    OML red requires 4 yellow matches, 3 black matches, and 3 red matches for max dmg 2602 dmg per 3 tile match

    Spidey blue requires 2 blue matches and a stun (assuming stun out) 4012 dmg per 3 tile match
    Spidey green requires 4.67 matches and does 3314 per 3 tile match

    Phoenix green requires death 3 green matches and its 5552 Aoe per 3 tile match or insane
    Phoenix red requires 3 red matches and does 2949 per 3 tile match

    End result, Spidey does more dmg quicker than either OML or Phx, but it's in small chunks, whereas OML is less but all in one.

    No you don't. You can say that Spidey can do the damage first, this is true, but you can't say the transform cost is part of the costs of these powers, because they are not, it is not as straight forward. Spidey can't do anything until he gets the AP to cast blue or green but OML on the other hand while he gets black and yellow is regenerating and creating strike tiles for every power you fire! It is much harder to assign damage per AP for OML, you can't do it like that... (It is like saying xpool red damage per AP is X and then not saying that he also heals for quite a bit).

    BUT if you really want to do it like that, remember that just after you transform you already have the power to cast yellow at least once, maybe even twice AND have some very nice strike tiles on the board! And you completely forgot that... If you want to add the cost of the transformation to the cost of black or red AT LEAST consider that you have a 'free' cast of yellow and add the damage of the black strike tiles icon_razz.gif

    So :

    OML black requires 4 yellow matches and 5.33 black matches for 37105 black + 6970 Aoe yellow (which is 20910 damage in total) max dmg or 6218 dmg per 3 tile match (and I am not even considering the strike tiles that at this level they add around 3000 to everything)

    The only other level close to this is Phoenix green, which can be even higher, but she needs to die and come back, which is always dangerous (and will probably never happen in defense).
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,148 Chairperson of the Boards
    So I pulled my 2nd black suit Spiderman today and he is now 1,1,0. I figured I would try him out in seed teams in LR to see his animation on blue. First match I got 12 blue right away and boom stun one opponent, select Juggs with 1200 health a boom same animation very little damage and Juggs is stunned. I have now read more clearly and realize I need a purple to make blue do damage. Very sad moment of the day. icon_cry.gif
  • TatercatTatercat Age Unconfirmed Posts: 930 Critical Contributor
    wymtime wrote:
    So I pulled my 2nd black suit Spiderman today and he is now 1,1,0. I figured I would try him out in seed teams in LR to see his animation on blue. First match I got 12 blue right away and boom stun one opponent, select Juggs with 1200 health a boom same animation very little damage and Juggs is stunned. I have now read more clearly and realize I need a purple to make blue do damage. Very sad moment of the day. icon_cry.gif

    I had gotten just the one blue cover for him too, and was wondering how to make him invisible for that effect. It looks like his purple is the only way to actually do it, as the only character who can grant invisibility to another is Invisible Woman, but that won't work with a 5 star unless she's a championed lvl370 (good luck seeing anyone doign that). There must be another 5 or 4 * in the works to support that, unless I'm just not thinking of an existing character.
  • notamutantnotamutant Age Unconfirmed Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    Tatercat wrote:
    wymtime wrote:
    So I pulled my 2nd black suit Spiderman today and he is now 1,1,0. I figured I would try him out in seed teams in LR to see his animation on blue. First match I got 12 blue right away and boom stun one opponent, select Juggs with 1200 health a boom same animation very little damage and Juggs is stunned. I have now read more clearly and realize I need a purple to make blue do damage. Very sad moment of the day. icon_cry.gif

    I had gotten just the one blue cover for him too, and was wondering how to make him invisible for that effect. It looks like his purple is the only way to actually do it, as the only character who can grant invisibility to another is Invisible Woman, but that won't work with a 5 star unless she's a championed lvl370 (good luck seeing anyone doign that). There must be another 5 or 4 * in the works to support that, unless I'm just not thinking of an existing character.

    Funny you should say that about IW. I happened to come across a Blade/IW team in the Punisher PvP last night. I had a maxed Hood and Jean Grey. I lost. That boosted Blade with IW is surprisingly strong. A bad board didn't help me though.
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