POLL: Should Championing Start at Max Level, or 13 Covers?

jobob

So the most frustrating part about this new system is that there is a MASSIVE upfront ISO charge before a player can truly start to enjoy the benefits on 3* and 4* characters.

This doesn't solve the issue of being at the mercy of the RNG. If you have two 4* with 13 covers sitting aroudn 220, it takes ~200k ISO to take just one of them to max level so you can champion. But it's all luck as to whether you get a "champion" elligible cover for the one you took to 270... or just a 1000-ISO cover for the one you left at 220.

I kept a lot of covered 3*s at 120... so new covers for those guys aren't going to be any more useful than before, so this doesn't really address the problem of 3* covers you don't need being waaaay undervalued.

To go along with the championing system, it would be really nice to see a bump in sale prices for 3* and 4* covers, so that they don't feel like quite as much of a "waste" if you get one that you don't need for championing.


I feel like the game has taken a step backwards, and even though I've managed to cover most of my 3*'s, I am right back in that zone of really needing to get a handful of 3* covers, and being very frustrated when I get the ones I don't need.

Malcrof

Has to be max level, no point otherwise. Remember the cover levels your character, so who in their right mind would use a 500 or 1k iso cover for a 300iso level....

Max level makes the most sense.. even though i need millions of iso, i 100% agree they did it right.

Unknown

This also seems to be an update that's supposed to encourage people to stop soft-capping their characters, so that they're less likely to have Max'd 3*s hiding at 94 for PVE purposes. Letting you keep them soft capped while Championing them seems to be kinda against the point of that.


...also as somebody who can never remember the PVP scaling rates, it will be kinda nice to see Shiny Stars to know that a character is all Maximum'd Out.

But, the cover selling iso is still there.

wirius

I believe it should be max covers, and the levels should simply add a level on top of the iso levels you already have. This gives incentive to level up those characters, instead of a feeling of punishment for not. In a game, the carrot is always better than the stick.

GrumpySmurf1002

Malcrof wrote:

Has to be max level, no point otherwise. Remember the cover levels your character, so who in their right mind would use a 500 or 1k iso cover for a 300iso level....

No one in their right mind would do that, but they might actually invest some Iso into said character to get to a point where the 500iso cover is now covering a 1200+ iso level. That's a win for all of us with tons of covers and no iso to show for it.

PeterGibbons316

It wouldn't make sense to have a lvl 40 "champion" 3* character. It also combats soft-capping. I only have 3 maxed 4*s so I will be feeling the pain of selling A LOT of 4* covers before I really start to see some of the benefits of higher level championing, but that's fine. It's part of progressing through the game.

edit: I will say that it would be nice if you could level your character one level at a time without championing. So say you leveled Vision to 120 before you realized he was terrible, and don't want to spend the ISO to max/champion. If would be nice if you could use new vision covers earned to add a level until he gets to 166, then you could spend the ISO to champion him. So to get him to max champ level of 266 would actually take you 146 covers instead of the usual 266. I'm going to head over to suggestions with this one....

jobob

Malcrof wrote:

Has to be max level, no point otherwise. Remember the cover levels your character, so who in their right mind would use a 500 or 1k iso cover for a 300iso level....

Really, no point otherwise?

I thought the point of this system was to address player complaints... one of the major ones being that 3* and 4* covers were way undervalued. I agree that this has addressed this once you've championed a character, but it changes nothing if you don't have the characters as max. The cover is no more valuable than before (and you could argue it's almost less valuable, since it has the potential to be much more valuable... you just can't cash in on it without spending massive more amounts of ISO).

blinktag

As others have pointed out in several threads, the frustration will be a 5/5/2 that can't find his last cover, but gets multiple repeats in the maxed powers.

Much more than the need to max level this will be (and already is) frustrating.

jobob

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

It also combats soft-capping.

I agree, but I guess I don't understand why we want to combat soft-capping in the first place. I see the financial benefit for D3, obviously, but how does it help the player base more than it hurts them?

Malcrof

jobob wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

Has to be max level, no point otherwise. Remember the cover levels your character, so who in their right mind would use a 500 or 1k iso cover for a 300iso level....

Really, no point otherwise?

I thought the point of this system was to address player complaints... one of the major ones being that 3* and 4* covers were way undervalued. I agree that this has addressed this once you've championed a character, but it changes nothing if you don't have the characters as max. The cover is no more valuable than before (and you could argue it's almost less valuable, since it has the potential to be much more valuable... you just can't cash in on it without spending massive more amounts of ISO).

The cover is multitudes more valuable. We can now take a character beyond their max level. Once you max iso level a char, you get the rest of the levels FREE! imagine how much iso that saves in the long run? Sure, if they let you use it for a 1200 iso level, you may be happy.. until you have to spend 4k iso to bring a 3* from 166 to level 167

The point of championing is to bring them beyond their max.. no-one is forcing anyone to level, if you wan to stay softcapped, just keep selling covers, championing will do nothing for you anyway.

And for those purposely underlevel, if adding a cover forced levels on them automatically, they would riot.

The Bob The

They've described this as a system to aid transitioning, so maxed makes sense. If you don't have a 94 roster of 2*s or a 166 roster of 3*s, you're not transitioning. It is always frustrating to hear "It's not for you yet" - remember looking at those XFWs, IWs and Furys only available to the top 2 finishers? - but, in terms of what the change is supposed to do, well, there's not really another way to put it.

(I can't speak to the intent to combat softcapping, and neither can anyone who isn't a Red or equipped with a magical mind-reading Weimaraner, but even if it's there, I can't see it as anything but secondary to the stated purpose)

slidecage

Malcrof wrote:

Has to be max level, no point otherwise. Remember the cover levels your character, so who in their right mind would use a 500 or 1k iso cover for a 300iso level....

Max level makes the most sense.. even though i need millions of iso, i 100% agree they did it right.

Not really if they allowed to you add the covers to the PERSON but did not get the goals until you hit 166. At least you can start adding covers. Only people who are going to vote they did it right are the people who have the people at 166 just to pull farer and farer away from the rest of the people.

this only is for the vets just like most of the new features.. What do newbies gain from this probally nothing.

so people who cap at 130s have to pay around 80k per person not sure where people are getting that kind of ISO unless they are buying it.

ALSO i can see massive downfalls to this.. Someone who has everyone soft cap at 120 BUT has enough to take 5 or 6 to 166.. So they do just to hit these new stage. They will then complain their AI jacked up their scaling so bad they can no longer play cause the levels jumped too high.

I say allow people to add covers even if they are not MAX 166 to earn the rewards it will just push the gap between the have and have not bigger

OneLastGambit

jobob wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

Has to be max level, no point otherwise. Remember the cover levels your character, so who in their right mind would use a 500 or 1k iso cover for a 300iso level....

Really, no point otherwise?

I thought the point of this system was to address player complaints... one of the major ones being that 3* and 4* covers were way undervalued. I agree that this has addressed this once you've championed a character, but it changes nothing if you don't have the characters as max. The cover is no more valuable than before (and you could argue it's almost less valuable, since it has the potential to be much more valuable... you just can't cash in on it without spending massive more amounts of ISO).

Incorrect, the devs explicitly said the new feature was to make it more beneficial to max your characters, it is not to address player concerns. Just so happens that the majority of players actually agree with it. Myself included

slidecage

Malcrof wrote:

jobob wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

Has to be max level, no point otherwise. Remember the cover levels your character, so who in their right mind would use a 500 or 1k iso cover for a 300iso level....

Really, no point otherwise?

I thought the point of this system was to address player complaints... one of the major ones being that 3* and 4* covers were way undervalued. I agree that this has addressed this once you've championed a character, but it changes nothing if you don't have the characters as max. The cover is no more valuable than before (and you could argue it's almost less valuable, since it has the potential to be much more valuable... you just can't cash in on it without spending massive more amounts of ISO).

The cover is multitudes more valuable. We can now take a character beyond their max level. Once you max iso level a char, you get the rest of the levels FREE! imagine how much iso that saves in the long run? Sure, if they let you use it for a 1200 iso level, you may be happy.. until you have to spend 4k iso to bring a 3* from 166 to level 167

The point of championing is to bring them beyond their max.. no-one is forcing anyone to level, if you wan to stay softcapped, just keep selling covers, championing will do nothing for you anyway.

And for those purposely underlevel, if adding a cover forced levels on them automatically, they would riot.

you say noone is forcing you to do anything BUT say your 140 right now and your fighting nothing but max 166 teams in PVP.... in a few months you will be 140 fighting MAX 190s or higher teams... I think your being forced to upgrade (unless they make new groups)

Malcrof

slidecage wrote:

Not really if they allowed to you add the covers to the PERSON but did not get the goals until you hit 166. At least you can start adding covers.

slidecage wrote:

I say allow people to add covers even if they are not MAX 166 to earn the rewards it will just push the gap between the have and have not bigger

Direct contradiction in the same post?

Unknown

jobob wrote:

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

It also combats soft-capping.

I agree, but I guess I don't understand why we want to combat soft-capping in the first place. I see the financial benefit for D3, obviously, but how does it help the player base more than it hurts them?

As somebody who soft-caps, soft-capping isn't very fun.

Where early on you were getting your characters stronger and stronger on a regular basis, now you're just kinda hovering in place until you got enough Goods for the next level, while people with bigger, fancier rosters kick your butt in PVP, and get mad that your soft-capped roster is doing well in PVE.

It's not fun for the soft-capper because it feels like your progress is stalled, and it's not fun for the people seeing softcappers because they get the feeling their higher level rosters "deserve" more then them.

Having Champions push my 2*s to higher levels will get me to (slowly) push my 3*s to higher levels too, bringing back that feeling of Per-Level progress that's been missing for a long while, making progress more consistent and satisfying, I think.

MarvelMan

Why not a system where it increases the max level possible without affecting the current level? I have no plan to max Beast or Dr (n)Oct at this time but it would be nice to be able to drop covers on them for future use if/when they get "fun" balanced. Make the iso necessary to get to 166 or 270 the same, then levels past that are gifted free. Seems the "best" of both worlds, and helps in a world where iso is in short supply.

The Bob The

slidecage wrote:

this only is for the vets just like most of the new features.. What do newbies gain from this probally nothing.

This assumes that people with a 94 roster of 2*s are vets. I guess that's a matter of opinion, but I'd call those intermediate players. As for 1* players, I had plenty on my plate when I was one, so I doubt they're chafing too much about the "Elder Game" (in the parlance of our Benevolent Overlords).

PeterGibbons316

colwag wrote:

As somebody who soft-caps, soft-capping isn't very fun.

Where early on you were getting your characters stronger and stronger on a regular basis, now you're just kinda hovering in place until you got enough Goods for the next level, while people with bigger, fancier rosters kick your butt in PVP, and get mad that your soft-capped roster is doing well in PVE.

It's not fun for the soft-capper because it feels like your progress is stalled, and it's not fun for the people seeing softcappers because they get the feeling their higher level rosters "deserve" more then them.

Having Champions push my 2*s to higher levels will get me to (slowly) push my 3*s to higher levels too, bringing back that feeling of Per-Level progress that's been missing for a long while, making progress more consistent and satisfying, I think.

I agree. IMO soft-capping is an abuse of the scaling mechanic that really isn't how the game was meant to be played and should be discouraged. I don't necessarily take issue with people that soft-cap, the mechanics encourage it, and more power to them for taking advantage of it.......but it's not the desired outcome from the devs. They want you to continue progressing, not stall out to abuse a mechanic.

simonsez

I don't even understand what's being asked for. If you've intentionally softcapped your rosters, and the whole point of championing is to raise characters beyond their current max level, what exactly are you looking to do?

PeterGibbons316

simonsez wrote:

I don't even understand what's being asked for. If you've intentionally softcapped your rosters, and the whole point of championing is to raise characters beyond their current max level, what exactly are you looking to do?

I was wondering this as well. I guess you could start to unlock the champion rewards?