80+ Legendaries

Unknown

I don't even care so much about not getting 5 * from them, but how about stop giving me 4 * I already have maxed out. Such a waste.

simonsez

aesthetocyst wrote:

I've heard this gripe expressed a couple times now, from several people. Seems to be a complaint of having lost what was never had

That's where you're wrong. We did lose something we had: parity with players who played/spent the same as we did. Now the parity determination is dominated by an RNG component.

SnowcaTT

Similar RNG experience. RNG dependent is a horrible, horrible experience for the userbase. I'm well under the average, and have one cover of all three characters (of course, because the RNG wants to make sure I open all those roster spots!)

Posted an image the other day on Line to alliance mates of what has made me sick to my stomach (and I've seen often lately): someone who has twice as many 5* covers as I do (six), and probably about 1/10th as many 4*'s - highest 4* was max-capped at 148 I think.

Not only frustrating for vets - how frustrating is it going to be for that newer player who now has three characters VASTLY better than any other they own? They will have to finish their 2* transition (or skip it), do their entire 3* transition, and start into their 4* transition playing those 5*'s all the time...all the while hoping they get more, if (God Forbid) the RNG goes sideways on them next and they get no/few more over the next six months.

mpqr7

mango_sentinel wrote:

I don't even care so much about not getting 5 * from them, but how about stop giving me 4 * I already have maxed out. Such a waste.

This is what drives me nuts. Of the 100 or so 4* cover/colors, I have at least five of them that are at 5 and no longer needed. Guess which five 4* cover/colors I tend to get the most?? And many of them are characters at less than 13 covers, so I wouldn't be able to do anything with them (if that becomes a thing).

I didn't mind wasting 1-3* covers, but since 4* covers are few and far between, it's a shame to put them to waste. Seriously, please never give me kp pink, sl pink, xf w green, jg green or xfdp red again!! I suppose I should be happy that I have so many covers maxed, but it's just a major let down to draw them again. Especially if it's a pve LT that I spent endless days grinding to get, all for just 1000 ISO.

Stax the Foyer

simonsez wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

I've heard this gripe expressed a couple times now, from several people. Seems to be a complaint of having lost what was never had

That's where you're wrong. We did lose something we had: parity with players who played/spent the same as we did. Now the parity determination is dominated by an RNG component.

This. In one fell swoop, 4* progression was essentially randomized, and and entire additional tier of randomness was added. Doing this at the same time that the 4* ranks were exploding in size means that progression at the 4* range, not just the bleeding 5* edge, is almost entirely random.

People used to be able to feel a gradual sense of progression in building their 4* roster, picking PvP events to focus on when they offered good covers. That's gone, too.

(Putting a tiny amount of covers in the the top end of PvE fixes the problem for a handful of people, but it doesn't compare to a known 4* progression cover in PvP, and like any other fix, it comes 3 months too late, when we could all see the problems with LTs at release)

Look around at your alliance mates. Among people who haven't whaled them, the disparity in coverage for say, Iceman, is going to be drastic. And that's with the occasional guaranteed iceman cover in PvP every few seasons, and the presence in heroic and event tokens. That's what the future of 5*s is for the foreseeable future. Months or years after their release, some players who play just as hard as others still won't have usable 5*s.

The present kind of sucks for a lot of players, and the future just looks like more of the same.

Raffoon

TheOncomingStorm wrote:

Raffoon wrote:

Opening over 80 Legendary tokens since their introduction has resulted in 3 5 stars for me. The current streak is around 50 tokens opened with no 5*s.

I'm sure this topic will be moved, locked, merged or deleted, but on the off chance it's seen by a developer in the meantime:

Dear Developer,
For creating such a poorly designed system for endgame progression, please accept my sincerest wishes that you step in an enormous dog turd every day for the next year.

Sincerely,
A frustrated, fed-up player, with 715 days and hundreds of dollars spent on the game.

P.S. Try responding to the constructive posts on the forum (not my posts in particular, just any posts with good, constructive ideas), and perhaps it will encourage people to continue posting in that manner.

Edit: You know what? I'm going to just go ahead and spoiler my original post in the terribly unrealistic hope that this won't get deleted and a developer may actually read what the other people have posted in this thread.

It's absurd how out of touch these developers are with their community.

The problem is mpq communicated their intentions for the legendary token system, but you either missed it or choose to ignore it. Legendary tokens are intended to assist with the 4*transition, not 5*.

5*'s are supposed to be like 4* xfw and iw were initially, very rare.

The real issue is that they made a deal with the devil, that has many people having misleading expectations. Originally, 5*s were not supposed to be whalable. However, throwing legendary tokens as bonus for large pack purchases along with players able to buy cp, undermined the entire original concept for 5*'s.

Hence, legendary tokens are working correctly. However, the p2w system has broken 5*'s.

No.

The problem is that MPQ communicated their intentions for the 5* character system, but you either missed it or choose to ignore it. 5*s are meant to represent a long-term, end game progression.

Silly me for expecting the only method of obtaining 5*s to be designed in a way that works towards those stated goals for 5*s!

I do agree that making 5*s whaleable has made the problem worse.

Regardless of the ability to whale things though, if Person A, B, and C all collect 80 Legendary tokens, but
Person A get 3 5*s,
Person B gets 8 5*s,
and Person C gets 15 5*s,

That's an absurd, broken system.

Getting fun, bonus things randomly can be a great thing. The fact that some people will get extra 5* covers through this system is fine. It's even good!

But, this cannot be the main system that distributes 5*s. In this system, there are always going to be people that get completely **** and have no way to progress further in the game, despite taking every opportunity to obtain 5*s that they can. That is a massive problem. The developers haven't even acknowledged it at this point, though.

And so, I would like to add an addendum on to my original post.

In addition to stepping in a giant turd every day, I hope that they slip on that turd and fall face-first into a second, larger turd.

Happy Holidays.

Lemminkäinen

I'm not in the big leagues yet so haven't experienced high-end play and I mean absolutely no offense with this but why do you need 5-stars? As far as I have understood, high-level play is mostly about etiquette and cupcakes and carefully orchestrated climbs where you won't be attacked until shielded (after you have passed the threshold where the non-LINErs reside). Why are five stars needed for any of that?

evil panda

i disagree - randomizing the 4* tier plus creating a randomly attainable 5* tier has hugely impacted the high level progression and vastly increased the frustration.

before anything, consider that the ENTIRE reward system - tokens, PVE nodes, vaults - was RNG based with the one significant exception of event progressions and DDQ (well, those are allegedly RNG based too, but at least the "rolls" were pre-event). at that time, at least i knew what i was playing for, even though it could get frustrating waiting for a usable cover to be offered.

now all that's gone. i do get that i get more rolls of the dice to get a 4* or 5* to compensate, but this whole situation just illustrates that humans will always prefer predictability and perceived equity over chance, and will feel like quitting if they feel their efforts are not getting rewarded.

Rumbles

Rngesus, bulls**t be thy name.

Raffoon

I just spent some more money on Marvel Future Fight. They gave me a bunch of bonus items in game, plus I get to spend the discounted in-game currency I bought on mega holiday sales.

I kind of want the 5 dollars I spent on the android sale for this game back.

Rumbles

Parity wasn't confined to whales prior to 5* rngesus. Wait that depends on your definition of whale. Prior to 5* I seldom spent money on anything other than shields. I played hard, climbed hard, earned progression rewards and won brackets.

Can't recall the last time I won a bracket(first world problem). Can't compete with those more blessed by rngesus, or wealth. Some players with under 1 year have better rosters(more 5*). Than my roster that has taken over 2years. Top it off MANY of the 4* pulled from lt are useless...currently 19 sitting in unclaimed rewards.

Artean

I agree with the Marvel Future Fight having a better system. Hell, WWE Supercard at least has a pity pull system where when you are a specific tier (in this case Epic++ (just roll with it)) and you havent pulled an epic in so many tries it will make sure you get one because they don't want their players being stuck unable to progress due to RNG.

Raffoon

Artean wrote:

I agree with the Marvel Future Fight having a better system. Hell, WWE Supercard at least has a pity pull system where when you are a specific tier (in this case Epic++ (just roll with it)) and you havent pulled an epic in so many tries it will make sure you get one because they don't want their players being stuck unable to progress due to RNG.

Hahahaha.... oh boy.... when "WWE Supercard" has a better system, you know the game is in trouble.

simonsez

aesthetocyst wrote:

Really? This sounds like 1980s nostalgia for the 1950s that never existed.

And you sound like someone who's been so traumatized by RNG progression, you've forgotten that people used to progress by busting their **** in PvE, and picking their spots in PvP when it was a progression award they needed. No one was depending on token luck to fill out their 4*s. Sure, it was great when you pulled one, but at 0.2%, no one was completing characters that way. You never found yourself in a situation where someone who played/spent as much as you had progressed twice as far as you. Now with Legendaries, that's the new normal.

kalex716

I'm really curious what sales data looks like since introducing 5 star tier.... I suspect sales have never been higher.

Im in a casual alliance and this last sale, even our guys tapped in for several hundo packs.

Its unfortunate because I have a feeling sentiments in this thread run counter to what the $$$ signs say is happening with the player base. I dont have to explain why the money argument will win out, do I?

Dauthi

kalex716 wrote:

Its unfortunate because I have a feeling sentiments in this thread run counter to what the $$$ signs say is happening with the player base. I dont have to explain why the money argument will win out, do I?

I bet sales are doing great yeah, but at the cost of the stability of the game. It is a very short sighted business tactic. I imagine these decisions come from higher up the chain above developers, because I don't see them ruining their own game for short term profits. I started wondering about this a lot more after IceIX left the development team.

Like others have mentioned, I recall devs telling us 5*s were supposed to be an extremely long term goal, that is why they make everything else completely obsolete. They were never intended to be bought, because even whaleing should give you a small advantage, not render all other players trivial. For whatever reason, they dropped CP on them and reversed their 5* plan.

If legendary tokens were progression only, I do believe we would still see the RNG gap problem, but we wouldn't have noticed it because it would have been happening over the course of 6 months to a year vs the 3 to 4 months that we observed. This slower progression also would have given them time to tune up/make changes to 5*s in case things didn't work as planned.

As it is now, they could fix 5*s so that the power is similar to 3* vs 4*, but even then a lot of damage has been done.

Bowgentle

To provide another data point for clustering:

I started tracking my legendary pulls on Dec 19.

Dec 19: Purple PX (sold)
Dec 20: Green Amadeus ("needed")
Dec 23: Purple X-23 (needed)
Dec 25: Blue Amadeus ("needed")
Dec 31: Black GR (needed)
Jan 1: Yellow PX (sold)
Jan 1: Red Deadpool (sold)

So in 7 pulls I got two covers each of two chars, and made zero progress on my 5*s.
I haven't pulled a 5* cover since the week Phoenix was released, and must have opened 40+ tokens since then (20 / month seems realistic).

I'm giving it until the end of season which should bring another 5 pulls or so, then I'm out.

woopie

Bowgentle wrote:

To provide another data point for clustering:

I started tracking my legendary pulls on Dec 19.

Dec 19: Purple PX (sold)
Dec 20: Green Amadeus ("needed")
Dec 23: Purple X-23 (needed)
Dec 25: Blue Amadeus ("needed")
Dec 31: Black GR (needed)
Jan 1: Yellow PX (sold)
Jan 1: Red Deadpool (sold)

So in 7 pulls I got two covers each of two chars, and made zero progress on my 5*s.
I haven't pulled a 5* cover since the week Phoenix was released, and must have opened 40+ tokens since then (20 / month seems realistic).

I'm giving it until the end of season which should bring another 5 pulls or so, then I'm out.

Story is very similar to mine. I pulled my second OML the week before Phoenix was released. Since then, crickets. I've missed maybe 3 LTs since (skipped some PvEs) and I've only gotten 4-5 usable covers (Iceman Green, GR Black, couple of TAH, and a a purple Rulk). It's really annoying going against mostly 360+ OMLs once I pass 800 in PvP.

Unknown

Here's a crazy idea!

If PVE is an extension of the Prologue why deviate from the original reward system? Rather than competitive placement awards how about awards that directly coincide with effort and accomplishment?

The most fun I have ever had playing this game was during the Prologue. I'd be willing to surmise that it is the same for many others. It was this initial gameplay that built our love for MPQ. Why deviate from such a basic commonsense reward system?

You complete a task, defeat your opponent you get an award. You want it to be random, establish specific tokens for each individual star level. Beginning easy nodes reward low * covers/tokens. Harder last "boss" nodes reward ***** covers. Make the progression of nodes such that you need a certain level of character to reach each difficulty level. You kill multiple birds with one stone:

• Enjoyment: Your player base feels satisfied and enjoys their experience by being directly rewarded for their efforts.

• Freshness: You create levels of difficulty that prevent a weaker roster from completing each PVE. Thus maintaining a respectable level of freshness to the game. If I can play each story through and have to play it multiple times the story becomes anticlimactic. Now we are just going through the motions with very little joy. However, if each time I'm progressing a little further each time the story remains fresh and is a new experience.

• Progression: visible progression of rewards and accomplishment.

• MONEY!!!: If HP and roster slots are your biggest revenue providers, then in what half-assed business plan does it make sense to have us suffer through endless multiple draws of repeat covers?! You know what sales HP, new covers!

Darknes21

Jonny1Punch wrote:

I opened 32 LEGENDARIES and received 0 5* and actually pulled the same 4 4* repeatedly. My first 12 tokens were 7 things and 3 yellow starlords/ 2 red starlords. I messaged CS with a very long and thoughtful request not to be compensated a 5* but to please look into this as it felt extremely unlikely this should happen and I felt ripped off. I engaged in a senseless back and forth getting automated replies and finally a big "F U" followed by a survey request. Nice way to waste my hard earned money.

The worst part? We have given so many constructive and thoughtful ideas to incorporate 5* in a stable and fair way. Like franckys streakbuster method above or Zeeke and my ideas of putting 5* into the daily resupply after day 730. So many other ideas totally ignored with zero feedback from anyone who matters/D3.

I completely understand your pain. Every time I open multiple LT I pull same characters! I did the whole customer service thing. after two generic emails basically saying we don't care and go F myself. I sent a third...that was five days ago I haven't got a response back.

Customers service does not care about any of us unless u are cheating!