An Update On Token Exploits *Updated (12/15/15)

kensterr

Devs solution to the exploit is by sandboxing or rolling back. Fine.

Now please find a solution to RNGesus. I think the remaining people are suspicious of any rosters because of own bad luck with the legendary tokens. How do you explain someone who keeps getting IW covers? I know people who are on both sides of RNGesus - Ones who keep getting 1 or 2 out of 10 tokens and ones who get nothing out of 50 tokens. I myself have not gotten any 4clops or Rhulk covers from the tokens, but I keep getting MrF.

So go fix RNGesus now!

RWTDBurn

KingDreadnaught wrote:

RWTDBurn wrote:

For example (and I will not include any names), there is an alliance that fell out of the top 10 for the season likely due to a member or two being sandboxed or rolled back. On their current roster there is a member that appears to have a slightly different name that has 6 fully covered 5*s (4 are fully maxed) with at least one of each of the 2 others that he/she is working on. In the past I would have thought he was just one of those ultra rare whales as most games have a few of them. Now my first instinct is that he's cheating. You have lost my trust because the integrity of the games is not intact. So this person is either cheating and still in the game or even worse, has spent ton of real world money that has helped keep this game alive and well but will likely be viewed and accused of cheating by most of the player base because of how poorly you've handled the exploit and the cheaters caught using it. That is the reality of the situation.

The one and only that has fully covered 5*s would be Me at this point. I do not mind to clarify if that referred directly to me and my alliance.
I'll make my final word here, I do not care whoever on this game think I'm a cheater or used any type of glitches to achieve my roster.
1. I spent more than enough to built my roster.
2. None of any member in my alliance have ever done such glitches or cheated to achieve their rosters.
3. I believe if D3 has to "hesitate" due to my high amount of spending, to sandbox me execute me, I will say it to D3 right here, DO SANDBOX me if you found me as a cheater or have done this token exploits glitch thing.
4. I really would like to see the list of the cheaters posted by D3 to clarify to the entire MPQ members here who are legit or who deserve to be executed. I have lost a lot of faith in my other "friends" outside of my alliance that I eventually found out they were not legit as I thought.
5. For all who has doubt in me, us my alliance, keep eyes on us. If any of us get sandboxed or disappear permanently from alliance(not switching alliances on several reasons or purposes for couple of days),You can go celebrate. However, I doubt that's going to happen.
6. As myself with a strong roster which I am proud, I would like to make one and only chance to all who witness this to contact me directly to make peace not war. For whoever I sniped, if you seek peace, let me know and I'll avoid if I could.

My apology for this long response. I am sick and tired of gossips, rumors or any accusation. If I am not legit and cheated my way up to today, Sandbox me, right here right now.

Goodluck to you all,
KingDreadnaught.

First off, I owe you an apology KingDreadnaught if it sounded like I was accusing you of cheating. I wasn't trying to accuse you of cheating but as I read back over it I can see how it might be viewed that way. The point I was trying to make was that the integrity of the game is not intact because the mentally of players (including myself) has changed when we see a roster full of maxed 5*s. Historically I've seen your roster and I've been in aww of it. I've been chasing whales like you for 2 years now and continue to set my goals to be where you are at. I never once thought you or anyone else was cheating prior to this exploit being made public, I just assumed you had the money to burn on the game so more power to you.

The way this exploit has been handled so far has changed my initial reaction when I see a roster full of maxed 5*s and I HATE that it's my first reaction to think that someone might be cheating. And THAT is where my frustration lies with cheaters not being sandboxed. The strongest players no longer get viewed as the best, they get viewed unfairly as cheaters.

And this is also an example of why there needs to be some transparency in the numbers sandboxed, rolled back, when they have comleted them, and most importantly what they have done or plan to do to fix this exploit once and for all. I'd like to go back to my initial reaction being of respect and to be challenged by the best players out there and giving them the respect they've earned.


Again, sorry KingDreadnaught. I'll make sure to hop into slice 2 for the next Sunday - Wednesday so you and the rest of your alliance can slap the living **** out of me some. I think it's only fair.

David [Hi-Fi] Moore

Lystrata wrote:

And you think you can legitimately say this game's integrity remains in tact?

Yes. Because cheaters are removed from the game completely. And those who are given a second chance have their items gained via cheating removed. If they break the rules a second time, their accounts are also removed completely. Regardless of how much they have spent.

Konman

"David wrote:

Moore"]

Lystrata wrote:

And you think you can legitimately say this game's integrity remains in tact?

Yes. Because cheaters are removed from the game completely. And those who are given a second chance have their items gained via cheating removed. If they break the rules a second time, their accounts are also removed completely. Regardless of how much they have spent.

That's the thing about losing integrity though. People are going to be a bit incredulous about everything you say now.

I just learned of the whole exploit thing when you made the initial announcement, but other players made posts of concern as far back as Feb 2014 apparently. That alone makes it seem like you guys were at least indifferent to the exploit for a pretty long time. Even if you were sandboxing all along, you still don't seem to have been interested in finding a fix to the exploit until just a couple days ago. That's baffling, and calls into question the legitimacy of many of your claims now.

lukewin

"David wrote:

Moore"]

Lystrata wrote:

And you think you can legitimately say this game's integrity remains in tact?

Yes. Because cheaters are removed from the game completely. And those who are given a second chance have their items gained via cheating removed. If they break the rules a second time, their accounts are also removed completely. Regardless of how much they have spent.

Because cheaters are removed from the game completely. And those who are given a second chance have their items gained via cheating removed.

2nd sentence conflicts with 1st sentence.

Lystrata

"David wrote:

Moore"]

Lystrata wrote:

And you think you can legitimately say this game's integrity remains in tact?

Yes. Because cheaters are removed from the game completely. And those who are given a second chance have their items gained via cheating removed. If they break the rules a second time, their accounts are also removed completely. Regardless of how much they have spent.

As others have pointed out, this is a contradictory statement. Either cheaters are removed completely, or they're given a second chance.

As far as I can tell from everything said in previous updates, the ones who haven't paid along the way are the ones you're suggesting get removed completely, and the ones who have paid are the ones getting the second chance. Please correct me if this is wrong, and explain how cheaters are both completely removed whilst also getting a second chance.

Perhaps overall it's simply a difference in expectations / morals. I, personally, think anyone who cheated the system and has ruined it for others both previously and going forwards, should be dealt with in a permanent manner - removed completely, as you say. I don't believe you can have integrity while simultaneously permitting cheaters to stick around. Apparently the company / higher ups behind this game do.

Call it an impasse, I guess.

GuntherBlobel

I'm happy with the updates to the update. Thanks for the transparency.

morph3us

An account roll back does seem like it's sufficiently punitive, at least as the first strike. The cheater is losing:
- all of their 5* covers (most likely)
- all of their 4* covers that they gained from the moment they started using the exploit (and 3* covers, if they hadn't finished them already)
- all of the levels (and therefore ISO) that they gained from the moment they started using the exploit
- all of the HP that they gained from the moment they started using the exploit
- the hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars they spent getting those LT's to utilise with the exploit (since all of those purchases are invalidated by the roll back, but the money remains spent)

All of this assumes that the last perfect save state is at the point just before the exploit was used. It might even be some time before that.

For a game where time spent equates to progress, that's a substantial penalty. It's months and months of progress that's been invalidated, plus a financial penalty on top of that. It's hardly a slap on the wrist, as has been suggested.

Lystrata

morph3us wrote:

An account roll back does seem like it's sufficiently punitive, at least as the first strike. The cheater is losing:
- all of their 5* covers (most likely)
- all of their 4* covers that they gained from the moment they started using the exploit (and 3* covers, if they hadn't finished them already)
- all of the levels (and therefore ISO) that they gained from the moment they started using the exploit
- all of the HP that they gained from the moment they started using the exploit
- the hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars they spent getting those LT's to utilise with the exploit (since all of those purchases are invalidated by the roll back, but the money remains spent)

All of this assumes that the last perfect save state is at the point just before the exploit was used. It might even be some time before that.

For a game where time spent equates to progress, that's a substantial penalty. It's months and months of progress that's been invalidated, plus a financial penalty on top of that. It's hardly a slap on the wrist, as has been suggested.

Considering I'm the one that suggested that, I'll respond. Yeah, it is. From my perspective. Cheaters have potentially hindered the progress of others, (potentially and presumably) taken up top spots in PvP that others more deservedly should have had, have managed to cast suspicion over anyone with a decent 5* roster, and are inadvertently causing further damage to the reputation of this game.

'We'll roll you back some, then you're free to continue playing as you like', to me, is a slap on the wrist in comparison to the long-term damage they've been doing. As you say, this is a game where time equates progress. And they've presumably stopped others, who invested time in this game, from progressing fairly.

Everyone will have their own take on the matter - my take is anything other than being completely removed is getting off lightly. Particularly when considering the precedent it's setting. Now anyone who cheats in the future, provided they've financially supported the game, will have the grounds to claim they should get a second chance. If they're even caught. Not particularly sufficient, in my mind.

But that's just my perspective. I simply have zero tolerance for that kind of behaviour.

Tannen

"David wrote:

Moore"]

Yes. Because cheaters are removed from the game completely. And those who are given a second chance have their items gained via cheating removed. If they break the rules a second time, their accounts are also removed completely. Regardless of how much they have spent.

IF you want to allow second chances for anyone you probably should just announce a new strategy for dealing with all cheaters...

1st strike - removal of all gains made while cheating (roll back of account).
2nd strike - removal of account from game (sandboxing)

If on the other hand the rollback of accounts is too much for some cheaters, then it should never be an option for any cheaters.

Please stop muddying the waters with pay/non-pay accounts. Don't let the level of spending of the cheater influence the punishment. Make whichever option you choose all encompassing.

Cheers.

Pylgrim

Maybe some added clarification will help quell some of the remaining fires re: some cheaters being given a "second chance". To stop rampant speculation can you give us numbers? Such as "players who cheated no more than twice and spent X amount of money will be rolled-back instead of sandboxed". Because right now, people could imagine the worst, i.e. "if you spent $5 and 'only' got one maxed 5*, you'll be roll-back'd instead sandboxed".

Also, can we please get a definite answer to this question: Will future offenders be given a second chance as well?

Nightglider1

"David wrote:

Moore"]
4. While we thank all of you for playing fairly and by the rules, we are not currently considering compensation for the great majority of the community who have refrained from cheating.

While I'm a firm believer in people doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do and not because they want recognition or reward, would it really hurt you guys to throw some ISO and HP at people who have always played fairly?

Dayv

Not speaking as a mod:

I think it's time for people to let this topic go. D3 has announced their plans to deal with this and their decision on requests for compensation. They've seen the requests to change their minds. This thread is just going in circles now. If you feel you can't play anymore, or can't pay anymore, you should follow through. If D3 sees a huge drop-off in play or income they may decide they handled this poorly, but I think it's just a blip on the radar. Payers gonna pay, players gonna play, only a few people who were already on the fence will really change their habits over this -- in my opinion.

David [Hi-Fi] Moore

Lystrata wrote:

As others have pointed out, this is a contradictory statement. Either cheaters are removed completely, or they're given a second chance.

You're using semantics to misrepresent. The above has already been explained twice. Insert an "or" if you like. The end result is the same. Exploited goods are removed.

Please see these statements:

"Exploits such as these are easily uncovered and we have always removed player accounts from the game whenever we discover abuses of the system. This isn't a new thing. It is an ongoing process we are vigilant about maintaining. Cheaters are always caught eventually and removed from the general population of players (ie; "Sandboxed"). This has been the case from Day 1."

"Second chances for players who have supported the game financially and have been caught using an exploit are possible. We take each situation on a case-by-case basis, looking at things like severity and how long the person has been playing, etc. These players provided with a one-time, second chance have their accounts rolled back to a time before it was corrupted by exploited gains. The loss can be significant for players in this situation and we usually do not see further cheating/exploiting from these accounts."

"• We manually roll back exploiter's accounts - meaning they can lose months of progress, including anything they gained fairly.
• We only offer this as a one-time courtesy to players so they don't lose everything they have paid for.
• At no point is a player allowed to retain anything they have obtained through an exploit."

I'll see if I can provide harder numbers, but, (as already explained) the number of players who have exploited is VERY tiny compared to the huge MPQ playerbase. Rampant speculation in the forums isn't helping anyone.

Ducky

"David wrote:

Moore"]I'll see if I can provide harder numbers, but, (as already explained) the number of players who have exploited is VERY tiny compared to the huge MPQ playerbase. Rampant speculation in the forums isn't helping anyone.

If possible, could you provide numbers regarding the amount that were found to be active in t100 alliances? I'd be interested to know how that compares to the overall population as well.

Eddiemon

Tannen wrote:

IF you want to allow second chances for anyone you probably should just announce a new strategy for dealing with all cheaters...

1st strike - removal of all gains made while cheating (roll back of account).
2nd strike - removal of account from game (sandboxing)

If on the other hand the rollback of accounts is too much for some cheaters, then it should never be an option for any cheaters.

Please stop muddying the waters with pay/non-pay accounts. Don't let the level of spending of the cheater influence the punishment. Make whichever option you choose all encompassing.

Cheers.

Another way of looking at it is this. It will take someone's time which equates to money to roll back an account if it is a manual process. Only one of the two groups has actually put any money into the game to finance a rollback process.

So with a F2P cheater not only have you not made any money from them, you are now making a loss. Whereas at least a paying cheater is still a net positive.

And yes, people can rant about business being about money and not ethics, but at the end of the day I have gotten to play this game for 2 years in part because of the money these people put into the game. Sure I put some of my own money in, but just my contribution is a drop in the ocean. So they inconvenienced me in-game by cheating but their contributions gave me a game to be inconvenienced in. Whereas a F2P player just took.

When you ban a F2P player I assume they can delete the app and create a brand new account. All you have taken from them is time. When you rollback a paying player you probably take time and money from them. So while the punishment may not be the same, it may be proportionate. Making the punishments simpler to understand may not make them 'fairer'.

Lystrata

"David wrote:

Moore"]

Lystrata wrote:

As others have pointed out, this is a contradictory statement. Either cheaters are removed completely, or they're given a second chance.

You're using semantics to misrepresent. The above has already been explained twice. Insert an "or" if you like. The end result is the same. Exploited goods are removed.

No, I'm using logic to try and gain clarity out of a contradictory statement. Which, given the situation, is hardly an outrageous thing to do.

The end result is not remotely 'the same'. In the first instance, cheaters are gone. In the second, some of their ill-gotten gains are gone, but they remain. Those are two very distinct and different things, not merely a matter of 'semantics'.

But given the direction this is going, I'll simply agree to disagree on the matter.

Moon Roach

There I was, looking at the game and trying to summon up some enthusiasm, and thought, why can't someone come up with an exploit where you can re-roll until you get an event you like.

It seems no matter what I do, force crashing, aromatherapy, stroking the cat (not a euphemism), whenever I open up the game Venom: Heroic is still there.

lukewin

"David wrote:

Moore"]

Lystrata wrote:

As others have pointed out, this is a contradictory statement. Either cheaters are removed completely, or they're given a second chance.

You're using semantics to misrepresent. The above has already been explained twice. Insert an "or" if you like. The end result is the same. Exploited goods are removed.

Lystrata was using your most recent statement, which had conflicting statements that also contradicted the previous statements you made. I can't fault Lystrata for using your most recent post, nor fault them for having to decide which of your statements to go by, the most recent or the previous, especially when there are contradictory statements. Glad you cleared it up. Clear, concise communication would prevent misunderstandings. At a time like this when people have a lot of questions, I'm glad we "hear from D3 Go! here in the forums on a regular basis.".

link for those who don't get the " regular basis" quote

Dauthi

KingDreadnaught wrote:

The one and only that has fully covered 5*s would be Me at this point. I do not mind to clarify if that referred directly to me and my alliance.
I'll make my final word here, I do not care whoever on this game think I'm a cheater or used any type of glitches to achieve my roster.
1. I spent more than enough to built my roster.
2. None of any member in my alliance have ever done such glitches or cheated to achieve their rosters.
3. I believe if D3 has to "hesitate" due to my high amount of spending, to sandbox me execute me, I will say it to D3 right here, DO SANDBOX me if you found me as a cheater or have done this token exploits glitch thing.
4. I really would like to see the list of the cheaters posted by D3 to clarify to the entire MPQ members here who are legit or who deserve to be executed. I have lost a lot of faith in my other "friends" outside of my alliance that I eventually found out they were not legit as I thought.
5. For all who has doubt in me, us my alliance, keep eyes on us. If any of us get sandboxed or disappear permanently from alliance(not switching alliances on several reasons or purposes for couple of days),You can go celebrate. However, I doubt that's going to happen.
6. As myself with a strong roster which I am proud, I would like to make one and only chance to all who witness this to contact me directly to make peace not war. For whoever I sniped, if you seek peace, let me know and I'll avoid if I could.

My apology for this long response. I am sick and tired of gossips, rumours or any accusation. If I am not legit and cheated my way up to today, Sandbox me, right here right now.

Goodluck to you all,
KingDreadnaught.

This is a huge problem, KingDreadnaught shouldn't have to post stuff like this to keep everyone off his back, but he will as long as the exploit remains. I imagine he, and other whales, are going to be hit by this the hardest. The age of suspicions and finger pointing is about to begin.

JVReal wrote:

"David wrote:

Moore"]Hello everyone,

We are aware of an increase in players using an exploit involving Legendary tokens. We're updating Marvel Puzzle Quest to address this issue as quickly as we can.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36524

In the announcement where they told you about the exploit the very first paragraph says they are working on the fix so people can STOP saying they have refused to fix it... my goodness people, your rage has made you blind.

The problem is they haven't given a time table. How many other problems have they been "considering" forever? Here is a good example of them being ambiguous about removing the exploit.

"David wrote:

Moore"]
Demiurge are continually looking at ways to fix exploits and are actively investigating the best way to fix this particular exploit. It is an ongoing, challenging task. By its very nature (again, "online game") it's difficult to fix everything in an absolute manner. And we've always been able to catch and remove offenders. This continues - and will continue.

Think about it this way, instead of dedicating a team to fixing the problem over 2 years, they have a team for 2 years putting out band-aids (allegedly). Why should we believe this will be fixed now or especially any time soon?