An Update On Token Exploits *Updated (12/15/15)

CubRob

"David wrote:

Moore"]To provide some transparency; second chances for players who have supported the game financially and have been caught using an exploit are possible.

I find it funny that this statement was immediately escalated to "all paying players get a second chance".

IlDuderino

GurlBYE wrote:

IlDuderino wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Jamie Madrox wrote:

But how can you say with certainty that those players wouldn't have scored better than you otherwise?

I can't, with certainty, which is probably why I'm not all worked up over the compensation thing. That, and the fact 5 extra heroic tokens aren't going to change my life.

They might if you keep rerolling them until you get Iceman covers

So settle for iceman, hulkbuster, OR jean grey,

gosh stop being so greedy.

Good point - I forgot the official guidance is to cheat in moderation and back it up with big spending

Hayek

Linkster79 wrote:

Firstly it is easy to uncover anyone that uses this exploit then you can give numbers as to how many?

This contradiction is what I have the most trouble with. Either this exploit isn't as easy to uncover as they claim and some cheaters are going to get away with it or they are hesitant to share the numbers.

Even if the number is < 1%. Here are some comparisons:
PvE top 2 for the 4* cover is 2/1000 or 0.2%.
PvP 1st place for the 4* cover is 1/500 or 0.2%.
And this doesn't just affect top placement rewards. If 1% of the population (or 5/500 in PvP) has been cheating to win, that means every time you miss ANY placement tier by 5 or less places, it could have been attributed to cheating. Over time, that's a lot of / / / lost.

JVReal

GurlBYE wrote:

I've never seen a fanbase so dedicated to the defense of developers who are so much more absent then others I've seen in games.
Seeing past actions, they've clearly done something right to get you guys' loyalty.

It's fascinating.

I think you are confusing people who don't agree with someone's viewpoint as defending the developers. It's not an "us or them" scenario.

If someone has a skewed perspective, giving them another viewpoint doesn't mean you are siding with anyone.

I can disagree with Trump, but it doesn't mean I'm agreeing with the other guys. It's not always black or white.

boldfacedfemme

Moon Roach wrote:

boldfacedfemme wrote:

Ah, the most dangerous sentence uttered in human history:

If it doesn't directly affect me, why should I care?

And thus history is always doomed to repeat itself.

I guess that's a swipe at me, though I wasn't quoted, as I used the words "directly" and "affected"

I was making a statement of fact as I see it, so probably just a statement of opinion. It doesn't directly affect me. I'm not in a top 110 alliance that would be top 100 without the cheaters (as an example, not knowing who they are and what alliances they belong to makes examples imprecise).

I don't see how anything I wrote can be interpreted as "I don't care" or "why should I care". I was suggesting casting the offenders into a Circle of Hell, after all.

Guilty conscious, much? As you stated, you weren't quoted. Or mentioned by name. So I wasn't referring to you. At all. I honestly can't even recall your post. If I was calling you out, I have the manners to at least a dress you directly. Good day *tips hat*

binarypillbug

CubRob wrote:

"David wrote:

Moore"]To provide some transparency; second chances for players who have supported the game financially and have been caught using an exploit are possible.

I find it funny that this statement was immediately escalated to "all paying players get a second chance".

Personally, my favourite part is where people somehow equate "roll back before the cheating" to "get to keep cheated stuff".

like yeah let me pay for the privledge of wasting my time, wow sign me up boss

ronin_san

stowaway wrote:

So if you re-roll the occasional duplicate cover, you're safe. You're only in trouble if you repeatedly re-roll until you get a 5*.

I've always known that these were people who did not take pride in their work. It's news to me that they're people who are incapable of embarrassment. Good to know.

I've accidentally done this, since I play on my Android phone and Ipad. I don't intentionally double-pop covers, and know it's best that I force close between devices. I guess it's worth noting that I've spent ~$20 in 2 years + of playing,

I wouldn't count myself an offender. I haven't used this exploit with Command Points.

What people are still overlooking, is the fact that drop / draw rates are still abysmal, and that 20 ISO rewards STILL exist. If the reward or payout structure wasn't hideous (in terms of percentages), we wouldn't be damned interested in cooking the books. Hah. I made a MPQ joke. COOK THE BOOKS.

Anyway, it feels like this is another unnecessary bit of outrage on the behalf of the players, not dissimilar to:

What, you nerfed Wolverine and Thor? RAAAAAAAAGE

What, you nerfed Spider-Man and Magneto? RAAAAAAAAGE

What, we can't carry as many boosts into a fight? RAAAAAAAAGE

What, you nerfed Sentry after people bought into him for an advantage? RAAAAAAAAAGE.


Let it go, boys. This too shall pass.

Jam_Adams

ronin-san wrote:

What people are still overlooking, is the fact that drop / draw rates are still abysmal, and that 20 ISO rewards STILL exist. If the reward or payout structure wasn't hideous (in terms of percentages), we wouldn't be damned interested in cooking the books. Hah. I made a MPQ joke. COOK THE BOOKS.

don't see how this is relevant.

it's still cheating bubba.

SnowcaTT

There have been lots of problems and controversy with this game, but this will be the one that brings it down. It was a good two-year run. Here's your glimpse of the future:

1) Whales can pay a bunch, cheat, get away with it. (that's now)
2) Game will continue to scale to keep whales - any non-whales will fall further and further behind. (sounds like that's up next!)
3) FTP or low-pay minnows will see that whales can cheat, and will never pay again (that should start today)
4) FTP will see they fall far behind due to not "pulling the right covers" (#1) and ISO-needed surge (#2): will stop playing
5) Minnows/FTP dry-up...new players stop transitioning, many fewer alliances.
6) Majority of playerbase now gone, whales get bored playing only against whales and stop playing.

itstime1234

Jamie Madrox wrote:

fmftint wrote:

Expanding Jamie's car theft analogy, no we shouldn't be rewarded for not stealing the car. But if someone else steals a car and goes on a rampage causing wide spread damage, everyone who suffered losses is entitled to restitution.

I understand what you're saying, but in this case how can you prove that you scored/placed worse than you would have otherwise? Also, for some context, I know of only three players from t10 alliances that were sandboxed and one other from a top "family" of alliances who was in a lover level (not t10) alliance.

I think that people are assuming that this issue was more rampant than it actually was. I'm not saying it's not a serious issue, but 3/200 (for t10 alliances) is 1.5%.

Again, I'm not saying that this isn't a serious issue, just that it's not as widespread as everyone seems to think it is.

How do I know Lance Armstrong wouldn't have won those 7 Tour De France titles. I don't. Doesn't mean he shouldn't have been stripped of the wins, banned for life, and if the runner up was clean, title given to him.

The fact that the outcome is unknown does not validate the cheating and cement the same outcome would have occurred. The cheater took that conclusion away, not everyone else.

fmftint

Jamie Madrox wrote:

fmftint wrote:

Expanding Jamie's car theft analogy, no we shouldn't be rewarded for not stealing the car. But if someone else steals a car and goes on a rampage causing wide spread damage, everyone who suffered losses is entitled to restitution.

I understand what you're saying, but in this case how can you prove that you scored/placed worse than you would have otherwise? Also, for some context, I know of only three players from t10 alliances that were sandboxed and one other from a top "family" of alliances who was in a lover level (not t10) alliance.

I think that people are assuming that this issue was more rampant than it actually was. I'm not saying it's not a serious issue, but 3/200 (for t10 alliances) is 1.5%.

Again, I'm not saying that this isn't a serious issue, just that it's not as widespread as everyone seems to think it is.

The number is MUCH larger, you know of only 3 players? I was just bumped 10 places in the final season rankings, 48-38. 1/5 is not insignificant, its HUGE!

simonsez

GurlBYE wrote:

I've never seen a fanbase so dedicated to the defense of developers

And I've never seen such a total misread of 6 pages of posts...

simonsez

"David wrote:

Moore"]2. We are unable to provide numbers at this time regarding the amount of players that have used the exploit as that is still an ongoing investigation. However, early estimates show that the number is not huge. Speculation from some community members that the numbers are large, are unfounded.

So far, 15% of the players who finished ahead of me in the season rankings have disappeared. And these are just the ones you've caught and sandboxed. Who knows how many amnesty whales finished above me. So yeah, to me, the number ARE large.

xellessanova

I just checked, and I went from 56th to 45th in the individual rankings, although the top 10 in my bracket stayed exactly the same. Oddly, the saved snapshot from Season XXI says "36 of 5000" but internal rank is 45.

Eddiemon

simonsez wrote:

"David wrote:

Moore"]2. We are unable to provide numbers at this time regarding the amount of players that have used the exploit as that is still an ongoing investigation. However, early estimates show that the number is not huge. Speculation from some community members that the numbers are large, are unfounded.

So far, 15% of the players who finished ahead of me in the season rankings have disappeared. And these are just the ones you've caught and sandboxed. Who knows how many amnesty whales finished above me. So yeah, to me, the number ARE large.

Given that the amnesty whales are supposed to be sandboxed and rolled back as part of any amnesty, I'd imagine they also disappear from the standings.

I don't know if, after the rollback, they will reappear in the standings at the point they were. It depends on how standings are structured and displayed.

Moon Roach

xellessanova wrote:

I just checked, and I went from 56th to 45th in the individual rankings, although the top 10 in my bracket stayed exactly the same. Oddly, the saved snapshot from Season XXI says "36 of 5000" but internal rank is 45.

You just prompted me to check as well. Wolveroach was #1316 when the season ended. He's now #1054. Oh, now he's #1055. What. The. Heck. And now #1056. I guess ~250 people in that bracket (#1 is LAWYER on 30008) were sandboxed, and now some are being put back individually.

Unless there's another explanation?

itstime1234

Moon Roach wrote:

xellessanova wrote:

I just checked, and I went from 56th to 45th in the individual rankings, although the top 10 in my bracket stayed exactly the same. Oddly, the saved snapshot from Season XXI says "36 of 5000" but internal rank is 45.

You just prompted me to check as well. Wolveroach was #1316 when the season ended. He's now #1054. Oh, now he's #1055. What. The. Heck. And now #1056. I guess ~250 people in that bracket (#1 is LAWYER on 30008) were sandboxed, and now some are being put back individually.

Unless there's another explanation?

One of my alliance mates is saying that its a glitch in the system. That your placement always moves after the season ends for some odd reason. The jump isn't due to sandboxing but something that occurs every season.

Maybe it is due to sandboxing but who knows.

JamesV

xellessanova wrote:

I just checked, and I went from 56th to 45th in the individual rankings, although the top 10 in my bracket stayed exactly the same. Oddly, the saved snapshot from Season XXI says "36 of 5000" but internal rank is 45.

I have gone from 448 to 359 in my season.

EDIT: Though that could be from the previously mentioned shifting.

DrStrange-616

itstime1234 wrote:

Moon Roach wrote:

xellessanova wrote:

I just checked, and I went from 56th to 45th in the individual rankings, although the top 10 in my bracket stayed exactly the same. Oddly, the saved snapshot from Season XXI says "36 of 5000" but internal rank is 45.

You just prompted me to check as well. Wolveroach was #1316 when the season ended. He's now #1054. Oh, now he's #1055. What. The. Heck. And now #1056. I guess ~250 people in that bracket (#1 is LAWYER on 30008) were sandboxed, and now some are being put back individually.

Unless there's another explanation?

One of my alliance mates is saying that its a glitch in the system. That your placement always moves after the season ends for some odd reason. The jump isn't due to sandboxing but something that occurs every season.

Maybe it is due to sandboxing but who knows.

I don't remember anyone remarking on this "glitch" before. Does anyone else? It seems like the sort of thing someone would have brought up on the boards. "Hey, I finished 99th, not 123, where's my stuff?"

itstime1234

DrStrange-616 wrote:

itstime1234 wrote:

Moon Roach wrote:

xellessanova wrote:

I just checked, and I went from 56th to 45th in the individual rankings, although the top 10 in my bracket stayed exactly the same. Oddly, the saved snapshot from Season XXI says "36 of 5000" but internal rank is 45.

You just prompted me to check as well. Wolveroach was #1316 when the season ended. He's now #1054. Oh, now he's #1055. What. The. Heck. And now #1056. I guess ~250 people in that bracket (#1 is LAWYER on 30008) were sandboxed, and now some are being put back individually.

Unless there's another explanation?

One of my alliance mates is saying that its a glitch in the system. That your placement always moves after the season ends for some odd reason. The jump isn't due to sandboxing but something that occurs every season.

Maybe it is due to sandboxing but who knows.

I don't remember anyone remarking on this "glitch" before. Does anyone else? It seems like the sort of thing someone would have brought up on the boards. "Hey, I finished 99th, not 123, where's my stuff?"

That's what my alliwance mate did. That's when they told him its a glitch and no additional rewards for you.

I would love if the move was due to sandboxing, that way we could properly identify who the cheats were. But I went from 67 to 55 which I could see 12 top people getting sandboxed. However that one person who went from 1300 to 1000 is suspect as I doubt cheats final scores would include people well outside the top 250. The consistent percentage move up seems suspect to me.